4" vs 5" quads - which next?

[AdamV]

I currently have a HMB 235 with dys20a/DYS1806 that i fly with 5x4.5BN on 3s. In live in vegas and city parks outlaw rc here, so i fly mostly in the desert. Every 'landing' has been on rocks, and the HMB has weathered the storm... better than the motors have

I'm still mostly horrible on acro mode, but i'm looking for a 2nd quad to fly/build for both variety and so i have something else to fly when one of them is needing repairs.

Was hoping for generic advice in choosing either a 250 or 180. Regardless of the choice, i'm likely to put 2204's on it for variety.

Is it fair to say the larger frame is 'easier' to fly? I think the smaller frames would likely be more crash resistant.

Currently i've been eyeballing the:
180s:
Tweaker 180 FPV edition $52
Armattan F1-4b $65 warranty!
ZMR 180 $39


250s:
Armattan F1-5 $110, Lifetime frame warranty! Really just 230mm
Alien 5" $129
XHover Element 106$
DQuad Reflex http://www.dquad.nl/RefleX.html ~129?

I'm leaning towards a 180 as it would be something 'new', the frames are cheaper, seem robust and i could always move parts to a different frame later. As a new quad flyer, I'd probably not do that if they are significantly hard to fly!

Any feed back would be appreciated, I couldn't find much on this online.

 

[Darkback2]

I have a zmr-250, a DJI phantom-1 and now a blade 150. I absolutely love my blade 150. I can't reasonably fly it indoors, but it is definitely good for flying in a cramped back yard. Honestly though I don't know about a 180. I feel like the extra size would allow me to mount motors that are too powerful for back yard flying, and might be too close to your 230... I am currently running props that I cut down myself using a bandsaw. I think because they are cut down they are a bit beefier and I haven't broken one yet even though I have taken some pretty hard crashes...The desert flying adds a dynamic though. I currently have a small 2' *2' sheet of plywood that I put on the ground for landing and takeoffs. In the north west it is mostly tall and wet grass that I have to worry about.

Best of luck to you. I am sure you will have fun no matter what you fly.

DB

 

[pilot1]

all the quads that you listed are great quads. I would go with the tweaker. The frame is not that expensive and if you decide you want a 250 after that you only loose $50 instead of over $100.

 

[FinalGlideAus]

 

[AdamV]

Thanks FGA, i definitely watched that video (3x) when it was released! i didn't have the qav210 on my list because I was concerned it might not be sturdy enough for my (lack of) flying ability.

 

[Robbie]

I currently have a HMB 235 with dys20a/DYS1806 that i fly with 5x4.5BN on 3s. In live in vegas and city parks outlaw rc here, so i fly mostly in the desert. Every 'landing' has been on rocks, and the HMB has weathered the storm... better than the motors have

I'm still mostly horrible on acro mode, but i'm looking for a 2nd quad to fly/build for both variety and so i have something else to fly when one of them is needing repairs.

Was hoping for generic advice in choosing either a 250 or 180. Regardless of the choice, i'm likely to put 2204's on it for variety.

Is it fair to say the larger frame is 'easier' to fly? I think the smaller frames would likely be more crash resistant.

Currently i've been eyeballing the:
180s:
Tweaker 180 FPV edition $52
Armattan F1-4b $65 warranty!
ZMR 180 $39


250s:
Armattan F1-5 $110, Lifetime frame warranty! Really just 230mm
Alien 5" $129

I'm leaning towards a 180 as it would be something 'new', the frames are cheaper, seem robust and i could always move parts to a different frame later. As a new quad flyer, I'd probably not do that if they are significantly hard to fly!

Any feed back would be appreciated, I couldn't find much on this online.

I would avoid the Armattan 180s, I bought some Armatton Morphite 180s for the programme i run to get teenagers into the hobby, the only thing i would watch out for is 1306s don't fit very well, and also there isn't easy FPV procision.

Personally I would go 5" Alien because its arguably the best all round quad on the market at the moment, and if you have the cash you may as well.

Robbie

 

[Robbie]

I'm leaning towards a 180 as it would be something 'new', the frames are cheaper, seem robust and i could always move parts to a different frame later. As a new quad flyer, I'd probably not do that if they are significantly hard to fly!

Any feed back would be appreciated, I couldn't find much on this online.

If you want something new you could try The Specter I found it on RC groups and it seems like a cool Kreiger.

Or if you want something proven, these 5 250s or these 5 180s are some good options.

Hope this helps,
Robbie

 

[AdamV]

i've read that top 5 article, interesting choices, i've come across bad things about the race blades braking to easy, so i've steer away from that.

I still haven't come across anything comparing sizes in general, with the exception being characteristics of 5 vs 6" - that's pretty easy does find, but 5vs4" is less common

 

[Ocean]

Personally, I think that the 180 category is mostly pointless, as you are loosing an inch of prop size for little gain, as you still are using the same 22XX sized motors. So the weight saving is minimal and you are loosing a lot of thrust.

The "Pros" also all fly 5", however as Robbie said in that thread, not everyone needs top of the line performance.

Just my 2 cents.

(I also suspect this made your decision harder, sorry!)

 

[FinalGlideAus]

Personally, I think that the 180 category is mostly pointless, as you are loosing an inch of prop size for little gain, as you still are using the same 22XX sized motors. So the weight saving is minimal and you are loosing a lot of thrust.

The "Pros" also all fly 5", however as Robbie said in that thread, not everyone needs top of the line performance.

Just my 2 cents.

(I also suspect this made your decision harder, sorry!)

You think like me . I'd also add that I've never not been able to fly my 5" where I could fly my 4".

 

[cranialrectosis]

Go 5".

6" is for the power mad.

4" is for nerds who need to build ever smaller for the same reasons there are microprocessors and mini-hexacopters.

 

[AdamV]

lol, man i was on impulseRC and i pretty much everything in the cart but the frame... which when i went to add the 5"... they were out of stock!

 

[airhawk]

im more of a micro or 250 guy all in the middle is not my taste i would try the nighthawk 250 pro v2 all carbon edition(wow thats a lot to say) besthobbymall has a nice 250 combo http://www.besthobbymall.com/multir...-fiber-quadcopter-aircraft-frame-combo-1.html

 

[Robbie]

im more of a micro or 250 guy all in the middle is not my taste i would try the nighthawk 250 pro v2 all carbon edition(wow thats a lot to say) besthobbymall has a nice 250 combo http://www.besthobbymall.com/multir...-fiber-quadcopter-aircraft-frame-combo-1.html

I agree with everyone above, what 180s are is an awkward inbetween of a micro and 250, but you end up getting the worst of both worlds. You don't quite the maneuverability of a micro, and you don't get the power of a 250. And as FGA rightly points out anywhere you can fly a 180 you can fly a 250 as well.

Also another thing to consider is how under powered 180s are. Personally whenever i fly them i find myself uncomfortably near to full throttle and whenever you try and advanced maneuver you end of plouring into the ground becuase there isn't enough thrust to pull you out a dive, this arugably makes then more dangerous as you want a thrust cuision to help you pull out of mistakes. Meanwhile i have never had this issue with 250s.

In all honesty, 180s are surviving of a wave of hype right now, but they're only really good for beginners. A 250 will last a lot longer and you will be able to push your flying ability for months, without feeling the need to upgrade.

P.S if you go 250 bite the bullet and buy reliable parts more than anything and an extra motor and ESC if you don't plan to be upgrading too often, because you want to mitigate the coming bills as much as possible, and don't go for anything less than 2204, 1806s are simply too weak these days.

 

[cranialrectosis]

lol, man i was on impulseRC and i pretty much everything in the cart but the frame... which when i went to add the 5"... they were out of stock!

I waited a year for my Alien 6".

It was worth it.

 

[mpbiv]

I am going to respectfully disagree with some of you guys.

Obviously "your mileage will vary", but my experience with 180 size quads especially with 2204 sized motors has been excellent. I've built two Tweakers (and a Mitsuko). The first Tweaker was a normal edition with 1806's, and I can tell you don't waste your time building a 180 with 1806 motors; it's the worst combination because they weigh nearly as much as 2204's but without the thrust benefits. You either go extremely light and run 1306's (and also no gopro), or go for the gusto and run 2204's.

The second Tweaker I built was the FPV Addiction version and I started out with Cobra 2204 2300kv and 4045 bull nose HQ's, and it is a world of difference from the 1806 powered version even on the same props. You really need to fly a 2204 powered 180 to understand it, it is nothing like the 1306 and 1806 versions. Yes there is no denying the weight is only marginally less than a typical 5" quad setup, however with the right 4" prop the 2204's perform really well and they don't even sweat the load.

And if you haven't been in the market lately, there are much higher kv 2204's out there which are even better suited to run 4" props. Currently I am running the EpicRC 2204 2800kv motors (which are actually custom T-motor MN2204) on HQ 4040 tri-props. Then there are also the Rotorgeeks RG2205 2700kv motors, which they have tested to make 920g of thrust on 4040 tri-blades. So if you choose the right motor and props your are not loosing that much thrust compared to a 5" 2204 setup.

FGA, I respect your opinion, but I'd like to offer my perspective from someone who doesn't have the same skill level as you: I would expect I could hand you my Tankito30 (300 size GoPro carrying quad with Cobra 2208's on 6045 props), and you could probably thread that thing through gaps I would never attempt. You have a very high level of skill and precision, and combined with your experience I could see why you don't feel there is a big enough size difference to warrant the 180 class frames.

However I consider myself an intermediate skill level pilot, and I find that having a frame which is already 30-45mm shorter than a typical 5" frame (210-225mm), combined with another 25mm less prop, that makes the diagonal envelope of the quad 55-70mm smaller, and that is significant because it allows for a little more margin of error. Especially when you are learning to fly fpv, trying to fit through racing gates or shoot tree gaps, and your only perspective is a 2D image with no sense of depth perception or feel for your outer dimensions. And under these circumstances the 180 quads are awesome for learning and building confidence. I found my flying skills progressed much quicker flying my 180 than it did flying my bigger 5" and 6" quads. And as a consequence I got more stick time and those skills translated upwards into flying my bigger frames.

This is why I am a huge fan of 180's, when spec'd right they offer almost as much performance as the typical 5" quad, but they are definitely smaller and easier to build confidence with. And if you don't like it or feel your skills have progressed beyond the capabilities of your 180 class copter, you can move all the electronics (and even the motors if you choose 2204's in the 2300-2500kv range) onto a 5" frame.

 

[cranialrectosis]

I have an Alien 4" on my desk waiting to be built.

I was going to grab some 2204 2300s off an old copter and use them but have been on the fence about that and about which ESCs to use.

The GoPro Session at 73g breaks the rules on what it takes to fly with a GoPro.

New motors, new ESCs, new GoPros. Get us a new 1300mAh lipo that can push 50C or better and weighs 50 grams and 180s will seem HUGE.

 

[airhawk]

the statement i made doesnt really apply to all 180s but most the best tuned,powered,and most durable 180s fly like 250s but the standard tune,and power train dosent really make it fly identical to a 250

 

[AdamV]

Just wanted to update this thread. I've decided to build a diatone 160 for backyard shenanigans and spend some more time practicing on my HMB235 before getting a 'proper' CF 5" frame. I'm adding the the DQuad RefleX & the XHover Element to my list of 5" quads i'm considering. I just discovered Dquad recently after watching a BorisB video - similar to the alien when a different take on the PDB