Anyone else uncomfortable with Monday's net gun episode

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earthsciteach

Moderator
Moderator
Here is what bothers me about his episode, if anyone cares to read:

1) I have absolutely no issue with FT showcasing Theiss Aviation. I would LOVE to see inside of Theiss. What baffles me is that Theiss, a commercial UAV company, spent time and money developing this net gun that has NO market. It certainly would not be an item to sell to the hobby market. It certainly is not a practical solution to stopping the "dangerous drones" flying over crowds, dropping items into prison yards or flying near airports.

2) FT is promoting the idea that there is a need for this sort of thing by featuring Theiss with this product. That is just a silly concept.

I think I had something else, but I think I need a nap.
 

razor02097

Rogue Drone Pilot
*snip* It certainly is not a practical solution to stopping the "dangerous drones" flying over crowds,*snip*

Especially if it disables the UAV causing it to plummet into the crowd...where as if the UAV was left alone it would not have.

Even the system that has the tether is quite dangerous... what if the UAV doesn't get caught in the net? What if the capture UAV isn't able to handle the weight? How could you even tell how much the UAV you want to capture weighs before you try to capture it?
 
I also completely agree that this is making our hobby look even worse... but I also don't really see how the system is supposed to work. Is every park going to have a "patrol drone" that'll have a pilot on standby 24/7? Even if they do make this system autonomous, I don't think that it'll be economically feasible to equip every public area with one of these.

Not to mention what might happen if the autonomous control system goes bonkers...
 

airhawk

Crashing Ace
I agree with earthsciteach but i dont know if i made the right decision on starting this thread i dont want to start fight here
 

Burly

New member
I agree with earthsciteach but i dont know if i made the right decision on starting this thread i dont want to start fight here

Hey...don't worry about it...lol...
No use getting your shorts all in a twist...
I've started threads, or posted things...that I wish I had waited to ponder a bit more...
But heck...sometimes it's good to engage in some vigorous debate.

I've tried to be the devils advocate in all this because...well...I think we are all suffering from FAA registration fatigue.
We're all beginning to feel a little like Davy Crockett at the Alamo.
But, I don't want anger from those emotions to rub off on people who are not the problem.
It's the idiot's flying recklessly!!!!!!...They are the problem!!!!!!

Now...onto more devil's advocacy...lol...

It certainly is not a practical solution to stopping the "dangerous drones" flying over crowds, dropping items into prison yards or flying near airports.

Especially if it disables the UAV causing it to plummet into the crowd...where as if the UAV was left alone it would not have.

This is making our hobby look even worse. Is every park going to have a "patrol drone" that'll have a pilot on standby 24/7? Even if they do make this system autonomous, I don't think that it'll be economically feasible to equip every public area with one of these. Not to mention what might happen if the autonomous control system goes bonkers...

A lot of assumptions are being thrown around on how these will be used...or "carelessly used" by law enforcement..."plummeting into crowds", etc. And no, every park is not going to have a park policeman staged with his drone at the ready 24-7.

Sometimes entrepreneur's get a vision...and in the pursuit of that vision, they put on a pair of blinders.

I think the video showed that this product is far from ready for primetime. Until this product uses "real-time video target recognition and aiming" while flying under "fully-autonomous autopilot"...it is largely useless as a drone hunter. And secondly, although drones are multiplying...the "bad drone incidents" are way too few in number for any law enforcement department to consider purchasing this product for the "sole purpose of hunting bad drones".

However, as the product sits today...I can definitely see some use cases in its current form...no changes necessary.

For instance, during flash floods or boating accidents in flood swollen rivers, people often get stranded on small islands...or even on top of their cars. I could see this rescue drone fly out and shoot the net over the individual...not so much for capture, but make it easy to catch. The net would be attached to a line to shore that's stout enough that would allow the victim to at least pull over a life jacket. Trying to catch a single line tossed from shore may be problematic, especially when one is perched on the top of one's car. Also, real helicopters are inherently dangerous in rescue missions. They give off a lot of prop wash, and may be useless in areas of rough terrain with lots of trees.

The small rescue copter may also be used just to get a line over the river...leading to a larger line, and a larger line...and finally a rowboat could use that larger line to move across...and make the rescue.

Out in the wilderness for search and rescue operations, the rescue copter could be used in a similar manner. We're talking about not only locating the individual, but also getting close and shooting a net over him. The net is attached to a short line with a "cellphone/gps radio beacon" wrapped in bubble wrap. Thus, if the individual is incapacitated with a broken leg he doesn't even have to move to reel in the cell phone, and make contact. The rougher and steeper the terrain, the more useful this delivery system becomes.

Another use case is in wide-spread flooding, both inland and after hurricanes. People out on open roof's, or waving through open windows could be located. The copter could shoot the cell phone/gps radio locator, as well as extra batteries onto the roof, or through the open top story window. At a mission control center a Google Earth Map would have a dot indicating the location of each stranded party. For those needing daily meds(like insulin), the copter could also deliver these in the net/bubble wrap package. I'd envision this as being more of a FEMA type sales opportunity.

Ultimately, these systems must be multipurpose. No law enforcement/emergency/or fire agency is going to buy a bunch of disparate systems. There must be a universal attachment mechanism on the bottom to attach: visible light as well as infra red cameras, the pneumatic net throwing systems, and possible systems to throw the aforementioned taser net or tranquilizing dart.

Having a single delivery platform means the pilot only has to learn to fly one FPV/Autopilot craft. There would be an alternate tablet PC for the person operating the attached payload: being either the visible light camera, the IR camera, and the pnuematic gun complete with auto tracking of target capabilities to shoot a net package, taser net, or tranquilizing dart.

Besides the copter solution, Theiss is apparently working on a hybrid airframe to be like a combination airplane, for speed, and copter, for hover capability. This would be neat to follow.

Again, I can't emphasize enough that having three sister companies involved in plastics presents a huge opportunity for these guys to go in and pick some brains. Just what is possible from an injection molding perspective. What kind of capital expenditures would it take? Today, everyone and his brother can go out and get a CNC router to cut quad kits from carbon or G10 sheet. But getting a phantom type body, or larger, injected molded...that's a whole different story.

What baffles me is that Theiss, a commercial UAV company, spent time and money developing this net gun that has NO market. It certainly would not be an item to sell to the hobby market.

Are you kidding me!!! I fully expect Peter to have a combat wing of a half dozen or so Kraken's to run sorties during FliteFest combats. They just have to get the net reloading down to a science, so they can go up, shoot, and land...as many times as possible.
 
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Balu

Lurker
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
The net gun they are using is multi-shot capable...

I can also see a use case in catching wild animals. Bears or boars roaming streets for example. There's a lot more in it that "catching drones".
 

airhawk

Crashing Ace
yeah but at the end of the day ft should of timed it better im not completely against it that episode just didn't feel like the great episodes were used to
 

StuartPB

Senior Member
If you look at it from another perspective, the video shows to the public that there are solutions being sought to address the "rogue drone" issue, which I think is important. The drone/net gun combo isn't something that's workable I think, but as I said it shows that people are looking for solutions to the problem. It really is just a matter of time before some donut uses a drone for malicious purposes so knowing there are people out there who are trying to address the problem could be some reassurance for some. I think jamming and hacking is going to be our government and military answer though, in terms of protecting establishments.

Although it wasn't a great episode, I don't think it was a write off or the timing was wrong. If anything it raised the points above.
 

airhawk

Crashing Ace
If you look at it from another perspective, the video shows to the public that there are solutions being sought to address the "rogue drone" issue, which I think is important. The drone/net gun combo isn't something that's workable I think, but as I said it shows that people are looking for solutions to the problem. It really is just a matter of time before some donut uses a drone for malicious purposes so knowing there are people out there who are trying to address the problem could be some reassurance for some. I think jamming and hacking is going to be our government and military answer though, in terms of protecting establishments.

Although it wasn't a great episode, I don't think it was a write off or the timing was wrong. If anything it raised the points above.

quality i guess was the main issue but you are right its good to see efforts being made my thing with this if it goes public what people might do with it.people shooting our craft is already a problem and how do we know that authorities of "drone control" are going to judge properly who's misusing the crafts and who's properly using them now 3d pilots are going to get shot out of the air if authorities think he or she is flying out of control
Thanks for your reply
-Airhawk
 

The Alpine Ace

New member
I agree with the statement airhawk made about the 3D flying. often times a 3D plane or helicopter looks like it's completely out of control to those who have never seen them... I'm sure a policeman wouldn't hesitate to shoot it out of the sky if he saw it as a threat. But a net gun actually seems like a good idea because it wouldnt damage the captured craft too much.
 
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Burly

New member
I think this actually points out the need for more fields that are dedicated to flying.
I'm not talking only AMA fields...but maybe some out of the way lightly visited metro park fields.

I noticed in the After Hours Podcast when Andre noted that he flies at a one end of a park that has soccer games at the far end.
There were times where crowds or maybe wind conditions kept him grounded because he thought the risks were getting a little towards the edge...and yet some of his buddies chose to go up.

With a dedicated space, this becomes less of an issue.
 

airhawk

Crashing Ace
in AZ there's this place called basin 01 its like a small flying field made by the faa to help RC hobbyists but it soon became unpopular and no one flew there they wanted to show all of us into one small field next to a busy road
 

Julez

WOT and going nowhere
I think this actually points out the need for more fields that are dedicated to flying.
I'm not talking only AMA fields...but maybe some out of the way lightly visited metro park fields.

I noticed in the After Hours Podcast when Andre noted that he flies at a one end of a park that has soccer games at the far end.
There were times where crowds or maybe wind conditions kept him grounded because he thought the risks were getting a little towards the edge...and yet some of his buddies chose to go up.

With a dedicated space, this becomes less of an issue.
Public RC airfields are an excellent idea. I've sent emails to my local city council regarding this. I've been told that they're waiting for the FAA to finalize their regulations before taking any action at all regarding modeling within the city limits. I would assume many municipalities take the same position.

My high school club flies during the school day on school fields that aren't being used. I think that making public RC airfields located on school property would allow for even more positive results, as it would not only allow the general public to have a common flying place regardless of AMA membership but would also allow for the development of RC- based courses and clubs at schools all across the country.
 
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Capt_Beavis

Posted a thousand or more times
Sorry, I am late to the party but somehow I have missed this thread. I didn't like that episode at all. It has 0 legitimate application for the civilian market. I can see the horror stories of people using it for poaching, snagging kids in the park, ect.
 

airhawk

Crashing Ace
hey cap your right but if this goes public which i dont know if it will it could ruin our hobby i mean ive got questions from people asking where are the guns on your drone so its already out there.
 

Burly

New member
Sorry, I am late to the party but somehow I have missed this thread. I didn't like that episode at all. It has 0 legitimate application for the civilian market. I can see the horror stories of people using it for poaching, snagging kids in the park, ect.

LOL...I'm picturing the scene in the original "Planet of the APES" with Charlton Heston being netted by apes on horseback...or the walking tripod machines in Spielberg's "War of the Worlds"...casting out their tenticles and dumping the humans into a giant lobster trap attached to the machine's belly.

Seriously, for poachers, you do the same thing they do for fish poachers. You "mandatorily confiscate" all their equipment...boat, motor, boat trailer, tackle.
Guys fishing out of season, or taking too many fish may try to worm their way out...saying they didn't know the rules for the quantity or size limit or fishing season.

But for a civilian shooting a net at wildlife from a drone...that should always illegal...IT'S NON NEGOTIABLE.
That goes for shooting a net at people who don't want to be netted...THAT'S AN OPEN AND SHUT CASE.
People are never...IN SEASON.

BYB BYE...$500 RADIO...BYE BYE...$1500 DRONE!!!!!!

An exception would be, doing a netting demonstration on a willing person on private property...as they did in the video...that's no big deal.

And you can already do mischief with run of the mill RC equipment without arming it with a shooting net...
For instance...buzzing people in the park, as well as harassing livestock on farms, or wildlife...

You don't need a DRONE WITH A SHOOOTING NET to be an A-HO%$.
 

Burly

New member
hey cap your right but if this goes public which i dont know if it will it could ruin our hobby i mean ive got questions from people asking where are the guns on your drone so its already out there.

Guns on drones is old news.
Some kid already put a real gun on a drone months ago.
He posted the video on YouTube which went viral.
It's a quad copter, showing the gun actually shooting.
I think he was on his own rural property.
It hit all the news channels.

A drone with a net is also old news.
There have been a few links on this thread showing students at Michigan Tech with a net shooting drone.
Some of the successful shots were from pretty long range.
Also drones with hanging nets have been shown...I think from Japan.

When the FT guys went to a Maker Faire in NYC many months ago, there was a group that flies drones in a "Battle Bot" type format of an enclosed cage. It's called "The game of Drones". They come up with all sorts of drone disabling tricks.

Check out sUASnews.com.
It posts the daily drone news from around the world.
All these instances can probably be found on that site.

The bottom line is...there's already been plenty of material out in the public dealing with all this...well before this FT video was ever posted.

PS. I just went out and checked sUASnews.com.
There are 900 pages organized by date dealing with drones.
I had no idea how many new startups and vendors are jumping into this commercial drone business.
It's mindboggling...
 
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Capt_Beavis

Posted a thousand or more times
To be clear, I am only talking about public perception. I fear this will add to the hype and it has no real value to the typical consumer.


LOL...I'm picturing the scene in the original "Planet of the APES" with Charlton Heston being netted by apes on horseback...or the walking tripod machines in Spielberg's "War of the Worlds"...casting out their tenticles and dumping the humans into a giant lobster trap attached to the machine's belly.

Seriously, for poachers, you do the same thing they do for fish poachers. You "mandatorily confiscate" all their equipment...boat, motor, boat trailer, tackle.
Guys fishing out of season, or taking too many fish may try to worm their way out...saying they didn't know the rules for the quantity or size limit or fishing season.

But for a civilian shooting a net at wildlife from a drone...that should always illegal...IT'S NON NEGOTIABLE.
That goes for shooting a net at people who don't want to be netted...THAT'S AN OPEN AND SHUT CASE.
People are never...IN SEASON.

BYB BYE...$500 RADIO...BYE BYE...$1500 DRONE!!!!!!

An exception would be, doing a netting demonstration on a willing person on private property...as they did in the video...that's no big deal.

And you can already do mischief with run of the mill RC equipment without arming it with a shooting net...
For instance...buzzing people in the park, as well as harassing livestock on farms, or wildlife...

You don't need a DRONE WITH A SHOOOTING NET to be an A-HO%$.
 
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