Did you read the January newsletter?

[Mr.Grinch]

I’m a little surprised by the new pricing plan for future designs. I understand that FTCA needs funding to promote/protect the hobby, but is this pushing the prices too far? I know there was a lot of upheaval when you had to be a paid member to receive plans, but now you can forgo that and only have to spend 1/3.5 the cost of a kit to get the plans? I can afford this, but I know this is going to be hugely detrimental to many others. There are lots of other thoughts rolling around in my head right now, but I’ll just leave it at this for now…. I’m not sure that this is a good move.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Time will tell.

Flite Test is (and always has been) a business. At the end of the day the question is, will the customers support the decisions that FT has made? Sometimes that answer is yes, sometimes it is no. We've seen FT make business changes in one direction, then reverse course and go back to the original method. Teaming up with AMain is one example. Having a single sponsorship such as HobbyKing is another.

They know there's going to be complaints. There are always complaints. Some will be filled with insults, and they won't (and shouldn't) give those much weight. Some will be sincere and constructive and they'll take those into consideration. There's also a lot of behind the scenes things going on that will play a part in their decisions.

We'll just have to wait and see if this works for them.

 

[JasonK]

That was talked about in the last pod cast.

This is also something that multiple people were asking for - the ability to purchase the plans without being a paying FTCA member.

 

[Droneflyer200]

I agree with the approach that they have decided on ! Not everyone wants to or can afford to be a paid aircrew member for one reason or another and that's their business. Flight Test as Flying Monkey said is a business and if they keep handing the store away for free they will not last much longer. Now anyone can get the plans through a formal outlet and you can buy the plans that your really desire. I personally Thank them for taking an organized approach. come on guys your going to tell me your not willing to pony up 6 to 12 dollars for a set of plans you want. Nothing in this world is free there is always a price to be paid.

 

[FlyerInStyle]

That was talked about in the last pod cast.

This is also something that multiple people were asking for - the ability to purchase the plans without being a paying FTCA member.

That would be incredible! also, just an idea for ft, @fliteadmin @flitetest , if they would sell just full size plans printed would be nice.

 

[Mr.Grinch]

I know that flite test is a business and they need to make money. My thoughts are about the original statements that plans will always be free and you should leave if they are not (loose quote) going to placing them behind a paywall of FTCA membership a few months ago to now charging members and non members for digital plans. I thought this price point would be more in line with printed plans. This is a significant departure from earlier statements, and yes, I know there is value in the work that goes into the products they produce and should receive fair compensation. But, This is also not paying FT but the FTCA which is a separate entity for purposes of meeting FAA requirements. I am squarely in the middle on this situation as I see both sides and agree with points on both sides.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Josh makes a lot of hopeful statements that don't always work out.

<Cough>Shinden<Cough>

Something else to consider was the intent for the free plans. Cheap easy designs to get people into the hobby. There's about 80 plans in the SP0NZ plans index, with several of them well beyond the level of beginner level aircraft in both build and flight levels.

On that note, the plans have moved well beyond beginner level. Flite Test has come a long way from the original line drawings that Josh used to make in his corel draw program.

There's also the question of have we as a community lived up to the reason Josh was making and sharing the plans for free? We were supposed to take those free plans and go out and share them with our communities. But I don't see a lot of build nights being posted online. Where's the pictures and videos of FT community members sitting down with a church youth group or a scout troop, and showing them how much fun building from foam board can be?

The closest I've seen is the guys doing podcasts hosting virtual build nights. And this is a good thing, but not exactly what I think Josh had in mind when he made the free plans promise.

 

[tamuct01]

"By providing them for sale we can pursue copyright legal recourse if the plans are abused as in the past."
IANAL, but it seems that you can't claim copyright infringement if you're giving away the product. This may discourage some from abusing the plans, but still give those an avenue to purchase plans for personal use. Also, by requiring FTCA membership (free or paid), they have a way to track who is purchasing plans.

The "free plans forever" has been addressed so many times already, there's no point in discussing it further. I welcome FT's attempt to distribute plans at a low cost to those who will use (and not abuse) them. Also, "At the discretion of the FTCA leadership, FTCA members will receive a $6 credit periodically as a perk for the use in obtaining a digital build plan at a discount." With that credit equals a free set of plans. I don't know how often that will happen, but good on FT for trying different things.

As has been repeated often, all previous plans are still here in the forums, for free. Now let's go build something!

 

[AIRFORGE]

It's intellectual property security. Not a pay wall.
Flite Test can, in no way, be blamed for this departure. It is entirely on the backs of the copyright infringers.
Without this business plan, FT would eventually collapse.

 

[Ligbaer]

also i think people are forgetting about the plans on rcgroups, there's basically library of any plane you want. and then when ft released the tutor and there's no free plans people were upset, when they didn't release plans for the stick people got upset the free plans were a luxruy tbh, and you also have to remember the ft nutball and old fogey and ft flyer aren't exactly original planes
the old fogey was based of the blu baby
and flyer was based of of the blu dart
(sorry if it didnt make sense)

 

[Rasterize]

In the podcast, Lee said they may be "Periodic Perks" or "Credits" for FTCA members. Wouldn't it be cool if these "Flite Funds" could be transferred between members? I can see it now....

 

[Ligbaer]

In the podcast, Lee said they may be "Periodic Perks" or "Credits" for FTCA members. Wouldn't it be cool if these "Flite Funds" could be transferred between members? I can see it now....
View attachment 215656

so this is what you do when your not making skins or doing skyfx stuff

 

[FlyingMonkey]

also i think people are forgetting about the plans on rcgroups, there's basically library of any plane you want. and then when ft released the tutor and there's no free plans people were upset, when they didn't release plans for the stick people got upset the free plans were a luxruy tbh, and you also have to remember the ft nutball and old fogey and ft flyer aren't exactly original planes
the old fogey was based of the blu baby
and flyer was based of of the blu dart
(sorry if it didnt make sense)

Very true.

And of course there's all of the free plans in the SP0NZ plans thread, as well as all the plans from both Flite Test and community members on the Resource tab.


The punchline in this is, it's all a matter of perspective. You have people upset that Flite Test promised free forever and are upset at Flite Test because they haven't received enough free. While I prefer to be part of the group that has been inspired by what Flite Test has done for us so far and try to pay it forward.

 

[SSgt Duramax]

I think it is fine, Let's see how it shakes out. Who knows what the future will bring.

Plus, I think they (whether intentionally or not) left an open door with the use of "credits" like how they will credit the aircrew members periodically to obtain plans. They were vague on how often that would be (a good thing) and didn't limit it. So who is to say that they couldn't give away a credit to spectators for christmas too, or whatever promotion they want?

Is 12 bucks a little steep for PDF plans, well, yeah, it is I think, but I suppose they could adjust that however they want. I was hoping to a template type of thing, where they could send templates out for you to use and then not even have to worry about the electronic copies slipping out. I guess that is more work in the shipping and manufacturing department though.

All that being said, it isn't like there aren't enough plans out there for someone getting started. It isn't like you just need a tutor or flerken, or whatever design they are going to roll out next to learn how to fly. I bet no one reading this learned how to fly on one of those planes, and I have not built either of them to be honest. If I were to look at my hangar right now, it is 2 SBK plane (One half built, one in the box), 1 1/2 scratch built FT design (my FT 3D is just a shell with no electronics), and 3 community designs.


I mean I was hoping for flerken plans as a perk this month so I could build a jet one like Ben, but I have enough stuff to build so maybe a blessing in disguise, plus I am starting to lose my excitement for it, I probably won't even care about it by the time I can get the plans LOL.

 

[Rasterize]

so this is what you do when your not making skins or doing skyfx stuff

Listen to FT Podcasts? You betcha! Interact with the FT community? Always! Use my skills to express my (often inappropriate and not thought through) sense of humor? With gusto!

 

[AIRFORGE]

I think it is fine, Let's see how it shakes out. Who knows what the future will bring.

Plus, I think they (whether intentionally or not) left an open door with the use of "credits" like how they will credit the aircrew members periodically to obtain plans. They were vague on how often that would be (a good thing) and didn't limit it. So who is to say that they couldn't give away a credit to spectators for christmas too, or whatever promotion they want?

Is 12 bucks a little steep for PDF plans, well, yeah, it is I think, but I suppose they could adjust that however they want. I was hoping to a template type of thing, where they could send templates out for you to use and then not even have to worry about the electronic copies slipping out. I guess that is more work in the shipping and manufacturing department though.

All that being said, it isn't like there aren't enough plans out there for someone getting started. It isn't like you just need a tutor or flerken, or whatever design they are going to roll out next to learn how to fly. I bet no one reading this learned how to fly on one of those planes, and I have not built either of them to be honest. If I were to look at my hangar right now, it is 2 SBK plane (One half built, one in the box), 1 1/2 scratch built FT design (my FT 3D is just a shell with no electronics), and 3 community designs.


I mean I was hoping for flerken plans as a perk this month so I could build a jet one like Ben, but I have enough stuff to build so maybe a blessing in disguise, plus I am starting to lose my excitement for it, I probably won't even care about it by the time I can get the plans LOL.

Flerken plans. February too soon?

 

[SSgt Duramax]

Flerken plans. February too soon?

I am about half way through the podcast. Is that when they said?

 

[Intashu]

I fully believe flite-test should include in the news letter something that's free. but that THING doesn't need to be plane plans. I thought the rivet maker was awesome.
Including some 3d printable files to accessories or enhance planes beyond the kit is a good option alternative. Or even just including plans for ALTERNATIVE parts which didn't pan out in final product that users could try themselves if they wanted.

For awhile now I've been in support of Flitetest releasing plans you can pay for at a significantly reduced price over buying a kit. Be it digital or a roll of paper is sent to my house. I get the need to make money on stuff, and will support flite-test as a buisness as my wallet allows, because i love the planes, and not all of them work out, but I enjoy building them. I came in just a couple years ago so I missed the early flight test days.. but I also ain't expecting free plans forever. And so I think the approach they're taking makes sense. even if it's not one everyone will agree with. but that's just my $0.02.

What matters is that thoes members feel they're getting some value out of being a member, I know that the support is applied directly the the business, the hobby, and to a collective voice in how the hobby is being shaped by regulation going forward. But fun little un-released random stuff in each letter would absolutely be fun for many of us too. Like some of the drop bombs that have been made before, or plans for the mechanisms seen in some videos. more random stuff is still fun stuff users can create on their own and add to their planes. Even if it's not a free plane each month, Having something fun to try each month is still a great way to show the community diffrent ways they can enjoy their flight test models, both in the air, and when building a new kit they bought or plans purchased.

 

[Draftman1]

Awesome!! I was hoping to buy plans. this is great news!

will we be able to buy plans of the planes that have been releised in kit form only? IE... texan, DC-3... etc...

plus any future MS and mighty mini series??

 

[Rasterize]

Will we be able to buy plans of the planes that have been releised in kit form only? IE... texan, DC-3... etc... plus any future MS and mighty mini series??

Good question. As of now, the answer is no. The Master Series type of aircraft are John Overstereets designs. As Josh posted this on Facebook yesterday: "John’s designs are his and are sold as kits only based on our agreement/partnership. FT in house designs are what will be available. "

Although Draftman1's post did not mention it, I would also point out to all that John's designs do not fall under the "But You Promised Free Plans" argument. John never made such a promise or statement.