First Airplane, aggravation

[buck2825]

I started off trying to build the FT Versa. I think it turned out well but have never been able to get it in the air. I modified the plans to make it a swappable power pod pusher. If I moved the CG forward it would nose drive right in the ground. move it back 1/8in and it would high alpha and crash. I'm thinking too slow take off speed.

so I figured I would learn on something easier. I bought the speed build kit for the FT sparrow. It glided well, but when I installed my electronics and ballast (5 Steel Carabiners) it would fall out of the sky like a rock. I'm thinking I was too heavy.
https://www.amazon.com/Zinc-Plated-Steel-Carabiner-Snap-Hook/dp/B00JG46FM8/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1483234010&sr=1-1&keywords=1%2F4+in+carabiner

Below I'm going to list the electronics I tried to use in both planes. I'm looking for a suggestion of which plane will work best with my gear. Something that is bank and yank 3 ch. and can carry my FVP camera too. 700TVL and Transmitter.

3S 2200mAh Battery
EMAX 2213-935KV Motor
9X4.5 Props
9 Gram Servos
Spektrum AR6200 6ch receiver
Hobby Fans ESC-40A

 

[Hai-Lee]

You are definitely trying to lift a lot of weight and I understand the pusher mods you undertook BUT, a pusher configuration which is heavy loaded can behave exactly as you describe if the thrust line is not set correctly, (Through the "LOADED" CG).

As for the carabiners All I can say is extra weight to a very weighty installation.

Recommendations! Try to reduce the load anywhere you can! Try building an FT explorer and possibly increase the wingspan and beef up the wing structure to handle the extra weight. It can be flown as a yank and bank if required and do gentle rudder turns also if required.

If you like to experiment then I would even suggest a Das Little Foam Stick with flaps. Then have the equipment mounted in the nose and a Power pod designed and built for an overwing installation. Fit the biggest diameter SF propeller your motor can handle and start cruising.

Using undercarriage will permit a long and high speed take off which would help considerably with a high all up weight.

 

[Tench745]

I don't know much about the sparrow, but I recall hearing it's tricky to get flying right. Extra weight won't help that.
On the Versa I believe you were on the right track moving the CG forward, it sounds like you need to trim more "up" into your elevons to add what's referred to as "reflex". On my Bluntnose Versa I had the same problem, but trimming both elevons up about the thickness of the foamboard at the trailing edge made all the difference.
It also looks like your motor KV is a bit low for that size prop. A 10x5 might be better on the versa, but you'd have to enlarge the prop cutout.

 

[albent_33]

From What I have seen and heard, The motor you are using on the versa is about the right size but WAY too big for the sparrow. The Mt2213 from emax doesn't need a 40A esc so you could lose weight there for the versa and try using an 1800mah 3S if you have one. As mentioned earlier use a 1045 or 10x5 prop. This will give more thrust and make the plane go faster. To make the sparrow fly, try a mini quad motor and a 12A esc. You might want to check the motor specs before choosing an esc but if you use an EMAX 2204 2300kv with a 12a esc and a 3s 1300 lipo you could probably get the sparrow to fly and shed a lot of weight.

 

[buck2825]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I will look into the 10 in prop and FT Explorer.

 

[Jugsy]

A 2200mah battery is way too big for a Sparrow. I wouldnt recommend it as a beginner plane, I find it loses a lot of control authority at slow speed and a 3ch V tail is really not forgiving when you're finding your way around the sticks. By the sounds of your hardware, you'll do a lot better with something like the Explorer. When you're starting out it's a good idea to follow the 'recommended' specs and stats for everything.

Mind if I ask how you came to the decision of 5 steel carabiners? That sounds like an insane amount of weight for any plane let alone a mini. Don't add 'dead' weight unless you absolutely NEED to, and even then do it minimally. Personally I prefer to balance my planes with servo placement and FPV gear, and keep All Up Weight to an absolute minimum. EDIT: Just had a look at the link you provided, you DEFINITELY overloaded the plane. At most any FT design should only require a few grams of lead in the tail or nose.

 

[buck2825]

A 2200mah battery is way too big for a Sparrow. I wouldnt recommend it as a beginner plane, I find it loses a lot of control authority at slow speed and a 3ch V tail is really not forgiving when you're finding your way around the sticks. By the sounds of your hardware, you'll do a lot better with something like the Explorer. When you're starting out it's a good idea to follow the 'recommended' specs and stats for everything.

Mind if I ask how you came to the decision of 5 steel carabiners? That sounds like an insane amount of weight for any plane let alone a mini. Don't add 'dead' weight unless you absolutely NEED to, and even then do it minimally. Personally I prefer to balance my planes with servo placement and FPV gear, and keep All Up Weight to an absolute minimum. EDIT: Just had a look at the link you provided, you DEFINITELY overloaded the plane. At most any FT design should only require a few grams of lead in the tail or nose.

I ended up with the carabiners because I needed dead weight to balance out the huge battery. in the video they were using play dough and this is what I had. Did not seem right at the time.

3S 2200mAh Battery - I have these for my Blade 450X
EMAX 2213-935KV Motor - Picked this to swing a big prop.
9X4.5 Props - not sure how I ended up with 9in props I origanally planned to use 10in
9 Gram Servos - this was the recommended size on the FTversa
Spektrum AR6200 6ch receiver - I have a DX6i and this one was cheep on ebay
Hobby Fans ESC-40A - I also have a 30A, bought super cheap on ebay $9.50 for both shipped. they took about 40 days to arrive from china.

 

[Capt_Beavis]

Learning to fly by yourself is hard, learning to build and fly together is very hard. Add in making modifications to your first build makes it almost impossible. It is best to follow the plans exactly and use power pack electronics on first builds.

You could use a higher pitch prop on the Versa, FT recommends an 8x6 for a pusher. 9x4.7 is a slow fly prop. I think you should start over and build a standard config swappable versa. Once you learn to fly you can go pusher and then start learning to FPV. FPV should come after you learn to fly.