Flying clubs. Good or bad?

[Flightrisk40]

Hi all
I have been back in the RC hobby for just over a year, and I'm loving it.
However one aspect of RC flight that worries me is the negative image portrayed by some flying clubs. The flitetest guys have never dealt with this issue head on, but have mentioned it a few times in videos and podcasts (eg NEAT fair 2013). And since those guys don't bitch about stuff without good reason, if they are bringing it up, it must be a matter of concern to them too.
I have joined three clubs since I got started flying.
The first was brilliant. The guys were great. They are very helpful and supportive to the learner. Helping when needed and leaving well alone where appropriate. The club is a friendly, happy place that welcomes the whole family and even the family pet. 10/10.
The second had an aggressive, confrontational undertone. I was told to do as they said and was challenged for breaking rules I had never heard of. I left and never returned.
The third was friendly but autocratic. It had loads of pointless rules, such as - I was not allowed to help anyone else learn to fly?!? I was eventually banished for dissidence. (I'm not exaggerating)
I don't live in the US so I find it worrying that this trend may be global. What is like where you live? Are there more good clubs than bad? Does anyone have any ideas how we can improve the good to bad ratio?

 

[Craftydan]

Hate to say it, this isn't unique. The local governing bodies (city, state, country and national club) can encourage a good or bad vibe through the community, but people are people. Some people are sticklers for rules, some people are cliquish, and some are overly gracious.

In reality it doesn't hurt to have *A Little* of each in a club;

- You need rules that can be followed and are encouraged or trouble will come
- You need people who are willing to form an "who we are" identity for the club to keep people together
- you need people who remember why we're out there -- to have fun!

however too much of any, and the club goes sour:

- Too stringent rules can prevent things that *are* safe, but "not the way we've done it before." They can also get to the nit-picky state that steals the joy of flight . . . all for "the greater good".
- People who form a strong club identity can become too possessive of the club exclude the new lifeblood that wanders by curious about the cool things we do.
- People who are too gracious and too encouraging of "fun at any cost" will create hazards that hurt innocent bystanders -- either with physical injury or damage to equipment/airframes/vehicles/whatever.


Balance is key. A bad club isn't full of bad people. It has regular people who have, for one reason or another, fallen out of balance. As the new guy on the block, you can't change this if they don't want to change (and they don't want to), but it is good to see it in any club you're active in.

When do you find a good group and join in, keep an eye open to these things getting out of balance, and encourage people to remember why we're there -- to have good, safe fun and friendship. Have all three and you're all bound to have a good time

 

[joshuabardwell]

The club near me seems friendly and welcoming, but I just don't see the point in paying $60 a month to fly at their field when there are a million other places to fly for free. Also, most of the pilots are older guys who fly gassers on 72 MHz, so the culture doesn't really resonate with me.

 

[desert wings]

The club I am a member of is:
• cheap..our field is maintained by the county - reducing the cost to members,
• the people that fly are generally kind and friendly,
• the rules are present but not fun killing,
• it is more fun to fly together than alone,
• we have several fun events per year including competitions, float flies, night flies, breakfast, etc,
• we have community events that we participate in to encourage others to fly,
• we sponsor scouting days,
• family friendly...though we don't have enough, kids are welcome (pets too),
• our storage area, has a refrigerator full of soda (honor system), outlets to charge from, and some portable heaters,
• we have good pit areas, a huge runway, some bleachers and a porta-potty,
• we encourage AMA membership and the club/field is an AMA site - offering a level of liability protection
• Electrics, Helis, Quads, FPV and ugly is all excepted and okay. So are impressive scale balsa.

For me the benefits outweigh the negatives. I also think generally clubs can be a power for good in promoting the hobby.

If not a club, then recruit some friends to fly with you and get some kids involved - spread the fun. It does not have to be formal, pricey, or official. Think about the comrade re here at Flite Test and make it happen with some local friends of like thinking at a local park.

 

[Tritium]

My Club is the absolute greatest. NO arguments "EVER", no conflicts, everybody is always on the same page, FPV is promoted as safe and fun. NO problems with the FAA since it is in unclassified airspace. No neighbors complain.

Sounds great huh?

Only one issue. I AM the club. There are no others. No one anywhere near me is into RC so it can get a bit lonely!

Thurmond

 

[jhitesma]

I've been really considering checkout out our local club. But...

1) It's expensive. Thankfully not $60 a month expensive (wow!) but it is $100 to join on top of AMA membership and yearly dues.

2) It's not super close...it's out past the east end of town so about a 30 minute drive. Not super far but considering that I seldom have to go outside a 2 mile circle from my house it's a longer drive than I usually have to deal with.

3) About the same distance away is a less maintained but still paved field that's on public land and open for anyone.

4) apparently 60-80% of the membership are snowbirds who are only here in the winter. So from April-October the club essentially shuts down. Members get the combination to the locks on the field and can fly anytime 24/7 (it's even lit apparently) but meetings and other events only happen in the winter. And being snowbirds (retirees) a lot of things happen at times that aren't convenient for someone still working.


That said...they do have a really nice field and I've heard a few good things from a few people who've gone out there. But every time I've gone out there there's been no one around. They do have one or two fairly major events a year and they're impressive from the photos I've seen with lots of large scale stuff. We also have a number of "real drone pilots" due to the local military presence - these are the guys who test new military drones and train military drone pilots - essentially flying RC for a living in the military.

Now that I finally gave in and joined AMA in anticipation of attending flitefest this summer I'm more seriously considering the local club...but that $100 initiation fee has been hard to scrape up and their meetings haven't been at times I could make it out to them.

I've actually thought about trying to start a park flyer club as I've met a number of people flying at the local parks and the local hobby shop has mentioned to me there seems to be a demand for a club that isn't as dominated by large scale high dollar stuff.

For now I'm happy flying by myself out in the desert. But I do wish I had a more reliable source of spotters for working up my FPV skills

 

[themajik1]

I agree with Dan...

I had been looking for a club about 3-1/2 years ago. I have 2 fairly close to me that is full of the classic "Grumpy old men" (Even though I may be getting close to being one myself). I had tried to speak with them on at least 3 different occasions and never got anywhere. Their rules were "extreme", great for safety of course, but short on any fun at all.
I finally found a club about 45 minutes from my current home, and they are all middle aged or older, mostly nitro planes. I am now not the newest guy at the field, but still not a veteran there yet. These are the most inviting, friendliest, and helpful bunch people I have been around in any hobby I have found.
We do practice safe flying, and will call someone out if not being safe, but in a positive way unless it is habitual. We do try to limit the membership, only because we would not be able to have 100+ members and give everyone the attention we feel everyone deserves in a club.

I do sadly see a trend of the older generation in a lot of clubs shun the electric flyers as it isn't (or hasn't been)traditional. They also tend to not like the fact that you didn't build your model from a bunch of sticks and glue. If your not a builder, you are not a modeler in their eyes.

I am not much of a builder, as I don't have the patience for it. I am trying to get better at it, but not much luck yet. Besides, ARF, PnP and BnF are so quick to get me in the air, I am all good with it.
I catch a lot of flack at my club, but only in jest! My club, The Smithville Dambusters are a great bunch of guys! If anyone is ever in the Kansas City area, look me up and I would be more than happy to invite anyone to stop by!

Mike

 

[Flightrisk40]

Thanks for the input guys.

"Grumpy old men" is a term I have heard more than a few times. It does seem that the most aggressive and least accepting clubs are exclusively retired gentlemen of combustible temperament

Dan, you are quite right about the balance. We need some rules and procedures to ensure safety on the flight line and let everyone around know that they are safe to be in certain areas. My favourite club has a nice balance. They are safe and friendly. If you are new or forgetful, someone will advise you of the expected procedure for the field in a friendly way.

This compares to a "bad" club where the omnipotent overlord heard my accent and realising I was from another country, grabbed my transmitter from my hands, telling me that if it didn't have the approval sticker for this country I would not be flying. A nice welcome considering I had only walked in the gate for the first time ten minutes previously. (As it turns out my transmitter was within the necessary approval with or without that sticker. But I don't think telling him he was wrong would have ended well) (It was a DX8)

We have a national body here, like the AMA, and I get the feeling that the bulk of club problems are generated by this organisations desire to create qualified officials within its volunteers. People are given a title and then think they have the right to control other lesser members? Maybe this is only my own experience.

Anyhow, I'll wrap this up as its getting way to negative and I'm risking becoming a grumpy old (middle aged) man.

I could fly alone at the park. But I drive over an hour to go to my club. Because I like flying with other people who like flying. But so far I have only found one club who likes people like me.

 

[SteevyT]

Also, most of the pilots are older guys who fly gassers on 72 MHz, so the culture doesn't really resonate with me.

Oddly enough even though I fly strictly electric (and do some FPV), these are some of my favorite clubs to hang out at, not necessarily fly, but just watch the planes and talk. I find these guys have some of the most interesting stories and the planes are fun to watch. One guy even let me fly his 1/4 scale Extra 300 (on a buddy box of course).

 

[PHugger]

We currently do most of our flying at our local High School field which is OK, but has lots of fences (airplane magnets) and often has activities like pickup soccer games.
My son, a friend of his, and I finally are giving in and will be checking out our local RC Club.
TriCountyRC in Central NJ - http://www.tricountyrc.com/
They claim to be noob friendly and open to all types of flight.
We've visited their fields (3), one of which is fairly local. We never got to meet anyone though.
I contacted them via email and they haven't been the friendliest - Don't visit the field, you have to come to a meeting.
Their website talks about flying as a visitor (AMA membership required) a couple of times before they pressure you to join.
So the response - Don't visit the field - was a bit off putting.
I fear they are all old guys flying gassers (we saw clothespins on a board), but maybe the 3 of us can change things.
They may be too serious for us, but time will tell. Their website states they are noob friendly and all types of flyers are welcome.
They have county/township permits for the fields and they may eventually be the only place we can fly.
I haven't ever been able to get an opinion about the club from anyone I know.
They charge - Initiation $50, Dues $24, and the one county field requires a $12 permit.
We are planning to attend their monthly meeting in April and take it from there.


Best regards,
PCH

 

[Gryf]

Even if I joined our local club, I'm really not the "clubby" type. Never have been... so any time I'd use their field I'd be something of a stranger, since I probably wouldn't attend meetings. All I'd be interested in is access to the field, really, and I don't know how the club would regard a loner pilot, even if I was a member. Note that I've met a couple of the members and flew with them at the club field as a guest, and had a great time flying and socializing. But being there with a crowd, especially with guys who have long since graduated to big gassers, I'd probably feel like I was getting in their way with my electric foamies. Just my opinion -

For now I just fly solo at my schoolyard, or meet up with some friends and fly at another friend's farm. I'm still debating joining the club, but most likely won't. I'm fine with rules and regulations, but if they become needlessly oppressive, I'm out.

Note that if all club get-togethers could be like Flite Fest, I'd fall all over myself to join.

Gryf

 

[Flightrisk40]

They claim to be noob friendly...
Their website talks about flying as a visitor (AMA membership required) a couple of times before they pressure you to join.
So the response - Don't visit the field - was a bit off putting.

Don't visit the field is an odd thing to say. I've never seen a club say that before.

Where I live, our AMA equivalent allows four visits to a club as a signed-in supervised guest pilot before you have to make the decision to join or not. And during these visits their insurance covers you as it does the payed up members. I would assume the AMA would do something similar? (correct me if I'm wrong)

Forcing you to join the national body before allowing you to fly is a tactic used by clubs here. Once you have "splashed the cash" you feel pressured to stick with it even if you are dissatisfied with the club. And it improves the standing of small clubs with the national body as that your payment is credited to them.

(sorry I don't mean to sound cynical. But when you deal with clubs, it happens that way )

Good news is that with a AMA membership card you can approach other clubs with minimal red tape. Or fly at Flite Fest

They charge - Initiation $50, Dues $24, and the one county field requires a $12 permit.

Holy moly!! You are lucky. Here clubs cost about US$150 for a small club and US$300 for a larger club. (at current exchange rates)

Good luck with the club. I hope it works out well.

 

[LandBasedMammal]

Wow. Thanks for sharing your experiences. My local club is looking like a better deal all the time (AMA membership required but just $45 annually, no member cap, 24/7 access). I am painfully cheap but in the city there isn't the wide open spaces and most public parks have way too much 'public' using them for safe flying.

 

[Flightrisk40]

I've met a couple of the members and flew with them at the club field as a guest, and had a great time flying and socializing.

That sounds like quite a good club Gryf. I fly a beat up Bixler among twin engine gassers. If the people are good, its all good.

Note that if all club get-togethers could be like Flite Fest, I'd fall all over myself to join.

If only life could be like Flitetest

 

[scousethief]

Bit of both , ive been a member of 3 clubs and a flight instructor alongside working for 2 hobbyshops as a builder and for a time a heli builder for one of the biggest shops in the UK.

My first club was great , probably the best type of club you could belong to, friendly , fun , loads of help from anybody who was there, if you were just starting and didnt have anything or were just wanting to try they had a few easy planes for you to "have a go" with buddy boxed to ease you in , aside from the BMFA membership the club was relatively free, you could throw a few ££ in the box if you had it but no pressure, tea and coffee machine handy at a minor cost which went back into the club , the land was kindly donated by a local farmer who encouraged us to fly ( it kept the birds away i suppose lol ) and the club had around 200 members some though just came to watch or look but really about 60 active fliers, good times.

The 2nd club was in a different area of the country and vastly different , snobbish is not the word for the attitude i received, even after patiently waiting and watching for 3 weeks at the indoor sessions they were constantly giving me excuses as to why i couldnt fly ( id paid my subs so they were taking the p ) eventually one evening i brought my heli ( a cheap walkera 36 that i had upgraded and tuned myself just for throwing ariound ) to the indoor session , from the minute i put it on the table i received nothing but "that wont fly" "that radios crap" etc etc , i put it in the middle of the floor took off flipped to inverted and began , 4 minutes later i landed collected my gear and left.

3rd club was a mix of the previous 2 both good and bad.

Now i prefer to fly alone or with a chosen friend rather than in the clubs , im lucky that i live pretty rural so there are plenty of wide open spaces with few people or cars which allows me a certain amount of freedom which suits me fine ,now and again my old customers come back and fly with me or get me to do some work on their "toys" which is enough lol.

so essentially ,clubs are like tools , if they dont do their job get rid , change brand or try something else , its your money and your hobby so if something doesnt feel right find somewhere that does, you'll be much happier in the long run.

 

[Flightrisk40]

so essentially ,clubs are like tools , if they dont do their job get rid , change brand or try something else , its your money and your hobby so if something doesnt feel right find somewhere that does, you'll be much happier in the long run.

LOL. Brilliantly put Scouse. An excellent attitude to take.

I used to live in rural UK and had heaps of space to fly in. Now I live in Australia and cant find space to fly. I know, it seems hard to believe. But its true.

You hit on the right word though. "Attitude". If a club attracts one attention seeking, authority obsessed, narcissistic, "little Hitler" he will manage to wriggle into a position of authority and he will ruin the club. Not because he's a problem (which he is, but he's only one guy) but because there are always a group of people who are willing to blindly follow Mr Small Hitler, and willing to mirror what he says. Then the entire club is infected with "attitude" and us regular troops are packing up our Walkera's and walking out. Then the "atittudes" get to keep the clubs facilities and normal well adjusted people are roaming the countryside looking for friendly farmers and telling everyone "I prefer to fly alone".

At least that's my experience. Not just from flying clubs, but a few other hobby interests as well. Why do we put up with it?

 

[PHugger]

We went to the TriCounty RC Club of Central New Jersey monthly meeting last night (3 of us).
There was a good group of folks present. They were mostly of retirement age, but a few were under 40. We can now fly on their main field, but still need to attend another meeting before becoming members. There were I’d guess the expected number of Old Gassers, but also a surprising number of Electric Flyers and even a sprinkling of Multirotor and FPV. They seemed friendly and open to us joining with them. All three of us want to go fly and become members. The meeting was a bit strange and afterwards I was thinking that it was amazing that so many actually attended. They are big on Parliamentary Procedure – not a big issue, but mostly time wasting.

They had a crash of the month - Horizon Sukoi that spent a month in a tree narrowly beating out a flyaway Rare Bear that was found after a month by a member who was fishing in a nearby lake – hey that looks like Joe’s plane! Another member showed a model of the month – could have been fun, but was so poorly presented it was a waste of time. The member basically stood up holding his (unflown) model and said here is my new plane. They are having a $20 raffle for a B17 flight (not the one from FT episode). There were no technical presentations, no tips, tricks or techniques presented. There was a report from someone who went to the recent Toledo show. No building or fixing. That was it – meeting adjourned.I guess I expected more, whatever. If we become involved I’ll see if something can’t be organized. There is a lot of collective wisdom there and they need to pass it down somehow. There was No emphasis on rules I’m pleased to report.

We met one silver haired gentleman who spoke about flying indoors at the Lakehurst Naval Air Station. My son and I had flow indoor kites there maybe 15-20 years ago. They fly every weekend all winter long. You fly in an old Dirigible Hanger (think Hindenburg). It’s over 800’ long and 180’ high. He said they have 3 flight lines and a lot of F1A flyers. We’ll have to check it out next year – government background security check required.

We see how things go once we start flying with them, but so far so go.


Best regards,
PCH

 

[FAI-F1D]

We met one silver haired gentleman who spoke about flying indoors at the Lakehurst Naval Air Station. My son and I had flow indoor kites there maybe 15-20 years ago. They fly every weekend all winter long. You fly in an old Dirigible Hanger (think Hindenburg). It’s over 800’ long and 180’ high. He said they have 3 flight lines and a lot of F1A flyers. We’ll have to check it out next year – government background security check required.

Actually F1D. F1A's don't do so well indoors. Lakehurst is a nice place to fly. Visit the ECIM website and get in contact with Horace Hagen (email me privately if you have any trouble getting into contact with him). Get the security check process initiated now, not later. It takes 6 months. Trust me when I say it is so worth it that it defies description. Lakehurst is the best indoor flying site on the planet (until Tustin becomes available again). At my only visit so far, I met Leon Shulman, designer of a number of absolutely incredible models (ones that won national championships) from the 30's and 40's. He's still flying!

Another reason to get the paperwork in now: F1D team selection finals is Labor Day weekend this year. Anyone within driving distance really should attend. It's the most amazing flying you've ever seen, and if you think the video FT did on F1D was impressive, seeing one of those suckers 175' up makes the video look like child's play.

Anyway, bottom line--flying at Lakehurst is really cool, and it's with a bunch of really great guys.

 

[wrayman]

I was looking into a club but I did not some of the guys just like to have save fun help out others if they needed it,they even were helped out others if they needed a part for their planes ext. But all the top guys that where running the club got to much politics in there club only what I heard was this is not the way the club should be like Dan said have fun and save fun respect other an so on ..I did not join, I am glad I did not the club is no longer. they even shut down the flying field .have find some other place to fly..

 

[PeterGregory]

There are many diverse branches of RC so I would look at what you fly now and where you see being in 3-5 years.

I just joined a superb club in the NY Hudson Valley, with two flying fields, and with a strong birth-of-flight, WWI, and Golden Era focus.
Electrics and fuelers are all welcome. I fly both so happy to be jumping in the fray.

The club fly everything, in general, at two fields. One field is reserved for electrics and fuel engines under .40 ci. Helicopters and Multi-rotors are phased out, only long-time members are grandfathered in, which I am fine with. Even though I plan on getting into multirotors I don't need to use the club fields.
Safety is a major factor which I am also very good with - I don't want to be smacked in the back of the head with anything while I am looking the other way.
The club also supports several major meets and fly-ins during the year.
Kind members have even been gifting me with equipment that would rather have being used - I have some building to do do soak up these fine engines, etc.