Flysky for fixed wing

[BorisTheSpider]

Hey all, I made a introduction thread a while back but I have some more specific questions now.

First, a little background. I'm working on a little program to build some FT planes with my son and a few of his friends. I have a little experience building multirotor (with FC/PDB combos) but not fixed wing. I'm using FlySky because I got that as my first radio and have since collected a couple more. I'd rather stick to that, as I'm more familiar with it and because of the cost.

My biggest question is about connecting the receiver to power for a build like the tiny trainer or sparrow.. I see that the voltage range on the ia6b (and maybe other receivers) is lower than 3s voltage. For multirotors, it's not a problem because the FC/PDB connects to the battery and provides corrected voltage to the receiver (I think). Do I need to do something to lower the voltage from ESC to receiver when connecting it without a FC? Do I need to use a PDB, or something else? Does the ESC handle that? Or does the receiver itself?

In the multirotor world, everything is made for ease of use and it's all basically plugging a few things in and some soldering. Also, there's a crazy abundance of info available about setting up every single FC/esc/receiver/PDB available for multirotos, all overy the internet. I can't seem to find all the information in one place about how ESCs and receivers and such work for fixed wing. Is there some basic guide I overlooked that will give me all the answers I could want?

Thanks!

 

[cranialrectosis]

Hey all, I made a introduction thread a while back but I have some more specific questions now.

First, a little background. I'm working on a little program to build some FT planes with my son and a few of his friends. I have a little experience building multirotor (with FC/PDB combos) but not fixed wing. I'm using FlySky because I got that as my first radio and have since collected a couple more. I'd rather stick to that, as I'm more familiar with it and because of the cost.

My biggest question is about connecting the receiver to power for a build like the tiny trainer or sparrow.. I see that the voltage range on the ia6b (and maybe other receivers) is lower than 3s voltage. For multirotors, it's not a problem because the FC/PDB connects to the battery and provides corrected voltage to the receiver (I think). Do I need to do something to lower the voltage from battery to receiver when connecting it without a FC? Do I need to use a PDB, or something else?

Yes.

Multirotor ESCs often come without a BEC. You use a Pololu or PDB or uBEC to reduce the voltage to the FC/RX. Most plane ESCs come with a BEC that reduce the voltage to <> 5v. Use the right ESC with a BEC and simply power the RX from the BEC on the ESC.

In the multirotor world, everything is made for ease of use and it's all basically plugging a few things in and some soldering. Also, there's a crazy abundance of info available about setting up every single FC/esc/receiver/PDB available for multirotos, all overy the internet. I can't seem to find all the information in one place about how ESCs and receivers and such work for fixed wing. Is there some basic guide I overlooked that will give me all the answers I could want?
Thanks!

Funny... In 2012 before we had PDBs etc.. it was exactly the opposite.

Planes are MUCH simpler than copters. You need all that documentation for copters. Planes are so much simpler the documentation hasn't changed much in the past few years (since lipo tech).

Multirotors created a demand for super high speed ESCs with no BEC. Older, simpler, cheaper ESCs with the BEC are what you want for a plane. Start there and this gets a ton simpler.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

Yes.

Multirotor ESCs often come without a BEC. You use a Pololu or PDB or uBEC to reduce the voltage to the FC/RX. Most plane ESCs come with a BEC that reduce the voltage to <> 5v. Use the right ESC with a BEC and simply power the RX from the BEC on the ESC.



Funny... In 2012 before we had PDBs etc.. it was exactly the opposite.

Planes are MUCH simpler than copters. You need all that documentation for copters. Planes are so much simpler the documentation hasn't changed much in the past few years (since lipo tech).

Multirotors created a demand for super high speed ESCs with no BEC. Older, simpler, cheaper ESCs with the BEC are what you want for a plane. Start there and this gets a ton simpler.

Awesome. I thought that's what I needed to do, but I started to feel overwhelmed when I had so much different information to pick through. I wonder how many people start with multirotor and go to planes. I know it's backward from tradition but it would be handy to have a guide for exactly that. You know, using multirotor parts for planes and changing how everything is set up. I have a hard time adding documentation to my projects (extra stuff to do - ugh) but I'll see if I can do that. Should be pretty simple, but a straightforward explanation of the differences in one place would be really helpful for the occasional oddball like me.

I think the biggest thing is that, like you said, you need all that documentation for multirotors, so lots of people have stepped up, for the community or profit, to make it simpler. I'm an example of the result. The parts are more or less a black box that I don't fully understand and don't need to. It's really fantastic, and it would have been much harder to get into flying if it wasn't there, but then I don't grasp some of the simpler concepts.

OK, follow-up question -- what about ESC firmware? I've only used ESCs that run BLheli, do I even need to think about programming the ESCs with planes when not using a FC? Are there any functions that are helpful to use, like active braking? In the future, since the parts are so inexpensive, we'll probably start tinkering with using FCs so we can easily add things like programmable LEDs, buzzers, and fpv setups. I think the micro brushless betaflight FCs would be a great match for planes.

This new venture was planned as a way to get the kids into RC flight and teach them about flight, electronics, building, engineering, and teamwork. You know, STEM stuff. These boys are really bright and I find their school's STEM program lacking. It would appear I have some learning to do as well.

Another question - how does buddy boxing work? I know the FlySky i6 has a port for a cable that can be used for that, but I don't get how that works. I mean, do both transmitters control the plane but one has authority or over the other? Is it as simple as the trainer's transmitter overrides the trainee's anytime there is a conflict? Does one or both have to do something to give control to the trainer?

Thanks so much for your help! I'd have a much harder road ahead if it weren't for this community. I can't thank the members and the FT crew enough for feeding my interest and stuffing my brain full of knowledge.

 

[cranialrectosis]

ESCs for a plane are dirt cheap and simple. Feed them enough air so they don't overheat and like any ESC, don't draw more power than the ESC can handle.

BLHeli FW does make it simple to program an ESC through the app or the software which is a nice feature. I think most of us turn off things like braking for a plane.


Check out this short video from Josh on wiring electronics for a plane.

There are a few threads out there where people are using flight controllers to stabilize a plane. Good luck! It sounds like you have the beginnings of a volunteer STEM club at your local school. FliteTest has some support for such clubs in the stem section of the store. My advice is take it slow and let the teachers handle the lipos.

I also recommend you learn to fly without the flight controller stabilization first.

Buddy boxing is usually done via a switch. I think they set it up like a 'dead man' where your switch will automatically return to a specific position if you let go of it. The trainer holds the switch down and that grants the trainee control. If things get out of hand, the trainer simply releases the switch and has control.

I have never used it but I think that's how they set it up.

I know copters better than planes. Stick around. We have some good plane guys here who are likely to chime in.

 

[PsyBorg]

<<< NOT one of the good plane guys... But cranial is right on with his advise with both the esc's and buddy boxing.

Btw I am dabbling in fixed wing on and off again after being a quad pilot for two plus years now so you are not alone. I did learn over the summer I HAVE to have a plane with a rudder. Bank and yank short circuits my brain when I fly live. I can do it on sims all day.. NOT on a real plane for some reason.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

Thanks for the replies. You guys are great!

I am indeed looking to do an ongoing FT STEM type club, though the school's involvement isn't really likely. It's a small town, with made-up minds about how things are done. I don't mind it being extracurricular. I may even take it to the church if I can figure out how to make it work.

The FC idea is really something I'll be dabbling in on my own down the line. Once I have a better grasp, it'll probably be incorporated in a build too. I'd love to see a big, GPS-controlled glider capable of flying missions for an extended time while recording it. It would be even more fun to put some lights in it so it's almost indistinguishable from a real plane at night. But again, that's a separate deal for now.


The most pressing problem I have right now is how to use the free plans. I'd buy the speed build kits but that's going to get pricey quick, and everything else already is. So...I'm going to have to nose around the forum and youtube to figure out how to do it. I started my first attempt and it's...not pretty. I need to figure out how to get the plans onto the foam board and how to cut it nicer. I tried pins and tape and a hobby knife. I ended up with cuts that weren't straight (perpendicular) and had a really hard time getting some of the small details cut. I may try a scroll saw, and cutting several at once, but I'm not sure how I'll then get the score lines transferred to each piece. I'm going off to search now but if you guys have any tips you know work, feel free to let me know or share some links.

Alternatively, I'm going to try to contact the FT store about the STEM bulk discount for the speed build kits. Any time I click the link for more info, I get an error as if the site doesn't exist. Maybe an error on my side, or maybe I have to be signed up already or something. I'm also kinda hoping they'd let me do an in-person pick-up to save on shipping. Doubtful, I know, but I drive through Malvern most days and past their office 2 to 6 (or more) times every weekday*, so I can dream dangit.


*I drive past on the highway. I'm not a creeper, cruising past their front door several times a day.

 

[cranialrectosis]

Cutting foam is an art.

Someone figured out how to make a CNC type cutter for foam board.

It's one of the greatest threads I have ever seen anywhere.

It exists because cutting foam is a PITA unless your name is Giotto or nerdnic. Use a supremely sharp blade. Change it often and go slow.

If you have a link to an FT page that is broken, please post it. Let's see if the Monkey man can get it to the devs and get it fixed.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

I submitted the broken link to their store support. I also gave them my "wish list" -- a bulk discount on the speedbuild kits and the option to pick it up on site and meet some of the staff. To my surprise, they responded positively to my requests! I'm so stoked. I'm gonna annoy the everloving crap out of them with a barrage of questions and fanboyism. Maybe I'll try to reel that in a little...

I'm still trying my hand at cutting foam, if for no other reason than I refuse to be beat by dollar tree foamboard. But I foresee some real scratch builds or scratchbuild custom parts for some future projects. I've watched a bunch of videos and read a lot. It makes me feel like the loser in infomercials that can't do something the other person does so simply. Haha.

Anyhow, thanks again for the advice and encouragement. I'm really excited to see where this goes.