FORWARD SWEPT WING (no fuse) Will it fly?

L Edge

Master member
Looking for a new plane to build that doesn't exist, ended up on wondering why a forward swept wing(no fuse or tail) hasn't been designed. I explored an aft swing wing and ended up with 2 new tools added to tame it's stability so it can fly in gusty winds. So off to do the research and found it is ten times worse to try to deal with a FSW with it's stability problems. The only way to get past it was to add a fuse to it and use other devices to solve stability problems. I will try otherwise.

This is my third project working with FSW's so I am aware of moving cp's, but found some other interesting info so I am going to see if I can beat it and get it to fly.

So HERE GOES THE PLAN:

sfw1.jpg


It is going to be a 45 degree FSW that will max out at 35 inches wide where the wing tips are 6 3/4 inches and the joining center length is 13 and 1/3 inches.

I am going to use a 64mm 5 bladed EDF so the centerline is stepped up to 1/2 height of the battery. It is going to be mounted by hot glue in the nose held in by balsa so if will rip free if impacted.
FSW have problems with bending and twisting in the wing so I added a carbon fiber strip to the leading edge and a fiber tube to reduce those effects. Also, with this setup, doubt any high speed problems to worry about.

sfw2.jpg


When 2 halves are glued together, this is what you get.

sfw3.jpg


Bad feature, is carbon tubes are not long enough and can't criss cross. So did this.

sfw8.jpg


Using basswood 1/32 thick, I heat the wood up with a iron and when it is very warm, apply hot glue to foam and mate the two togeather. Excellant way to strengthen a foam joint and tubing.

With the EDF mounted, this is the top surface showing if the EDF get hit. it should pop free and possibly be saved. Again, the centerline of the motor is 1/2 height of the battery.

sfw4.jpg


Front view

sfw5.jpg


Notice carbon fiber strip on leading edge.

Here is the end plate I designed so it helps to reduce twisting of the wing.

sfw6.jpg


Section was added below wing so when it lands(if it does) the servos and other electronics don't get ripped off.


















I must note that this project has taken months to design due to building problems and how to resolve issues as they developed or as I became aware of.
 
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L Edge

Master member
Picture of end plate from top.
sfw7.jpg


Next comes the elevons, so I chose to use the inner segment so it has flow across it from the moment the EDF is turning. Secondly, I wanted the outer area to have uninterupted airflow that is not disturbed(no elevon deflection).

sfw8.jpg


Yiew underside showing elevons. A vertical piece of foam was added to 1) be a skid 2) as well as keeping the airflow seperate from each wing.
 
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L Edge

Master member
Added a center piece on top to prevent inward flow to mix.

sfw10 cdunder fan.jpg


Frontal view:

sfw11.jpg


Sideview:
sfw12.jpg


sfw13.jpg


Installing electronics underneath. Since CG is 4.5 inches ahead of fan, moved servo as far forward as possible.

Rest of electronics that has to be placed somewhere.
sfw14.jpg


Reached a point where I need to decide on what I do to go from here. Where is the battery going to be placed to move it from now(balances 1/2 inch in front of nozzle to 4 more inches moved up.
 
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Timmy

Legendary member
I think that those endplates you installed will cause drag in front of the center of gravity. For rockets, the center of pressure must be behind the center of mass, which is party why they have fins at the back. I think the same principle works on airplanes too.
yeah, you need to move the center of pressure farther back somehow. You need a tail.
 

GliderFlyer

Elite member
You could have the wing be thin at the front, then get thicker as it goes further back, that might change the center of pressure, but probably not by much at low speeds.
 

L Edge

Master member
You could have the wing be thin at the front, then get thicker as it goes further back, that might change the center of pressure, but probably not by much at low speeds.

Thanks for the comments. Keep them coming. Glad to hear any viewpoints and reasoning why on the subject. Keep in mind that the cp jumps around. So I decided to approach it in 2 steps:

Can I get it launched?
What happens in the flight environment?
 

The Hangar

Fly harder!
Mentor
Looking for a new plane to build that doesn't exist, ended up on wondering why a forward swept wing(no fuse or tail) hasn't been designed. I explored an aft swing wing and ended up with 2 new tools added to tame it's stability so it can fly in gusty winds. So off to do the research and found it is ten times worse to try to deal with a FSW with it's stability problems. The only way to get past it was to add a fuse to it and use other devices to solve stability problems. I will try otherwise.

This is my third project working with FSW's so I am aware of moving cp's, but found some other interesting info so I am going to see if I can beat it and get it to fly.

So HERE GOES THE PLAN:

View attachment 193463

It is going to be a 45 degree FSW that will max out at 35 inches wide where the wing tips are 6 3/4 inches and the joining center length is 13 and 1/3 inches.

I am going to use a 64mm 5 bladed EDF so the centerline is stepped up to 1/2 height of the battery. It is going to be mounted by hot glue in the nose held in by balsa so if will rip free if impacted.
FSW have problems with bending and twisting in the wing so I added a carbon fiber strip to the leading edge and a fiber tube to reduce those effects. Also, with this setup, doubt any high speed problems to worry about.

View attachment 193464

When 2 halves are glued together, this is what you get.

View attachment 193465

Bad feature, is carbon tubes are not long enough and can't criss cross. So did this.

View attachment 193466

Using basswood 1/32 thick, I heat the wood up with a iron and when it is very warm, apply hot glue to foam and mate the two togeather. Excellant way to strengthen a foam joint and tubing.

With the EDF mounted, this is the top surface showing if the EDF get hit. it should pop free and possibly be saved. Again, the centerline of the motor is 1/2 height of the battery.

View attachment 193467

Front view

View attachment 193468

Notice carbon fiber strip on leading edge.

Here is the end plate I designed so it helps to reduce twisting of the wing.

View attachment 193469

Section was added below wing so when it lands(if it does) the servos and other electronics don't get ripped off.


















I must note that this project has taken months to design due to building problems and how to resolve issues as they developed or as I became aware of.
Cool project, I'll be following!
 

leaded50

Legendary member
forward swept wings, have been used and experimented with on many planes, with different sucsess / failure. Yaw stability, twisting of wing, and stall problems seems be mostly the problems. The flying Pancake (Vought V-173) is more or less a forward swept flying wing, the Cornelius Mallard even more... and both flyed!
Yours are quite "sharp" rearward pointed though, as a supersonic delta, flying wrong way....that can give you problems. Perhaps you also would got a better build by eg. squared off the end, or used it as a triangleshaped controlsurface (elevator) with that wingshape?
 

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leaded50

Legendary member
you also got a discussion on the similar terms here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2482467-Reverse-Flying-Wing-Project
&
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...planform-behave-straight-part-forward-are-the

Rhein-Flugzeugbau GmbH (RFB) have a WIG plane thats also triangleshaped, Lippish did some,also a few Russian , eg.... but thats for exploit the ground effect....

Reverse delta wing configuration, did Dr. A. Lippisch proved to be very stable in ground effect, it creates a very steady position of the Cm (pitching moment) when the wing is close to a surface.... up in air? well....
 

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L Edge

Master member
Might get some success adding a flight controller, too.

Thanks, I am going to use a gyro to see what happens for getting it launched. After I finish the build, will explain what I found in the documentation and why the cp jumps back and then pops forward. Much worse than the aft swing wing with cp.

Solved the morphing aft to forward swing wing in flight by moving the servos and changing the angles of the wing (MAC) to control the moving cp. Will it fly, I will find out.
 

Corsair714

Well-known member
A problem you'll have is the wing's twisting if I remember correctly. With model aircraft it's easier to make strong wings, but for full scale aircraft that was an issue they had to deal with. Just by looking at it I'm guessing you'll have a lot of yaw issues. Looking forward to the end result though. Very interesting project.
 

leaded50

Legendary member
Picture of end plate from top.
View attachment 193544

Next comes the elevons, so I chose to use the inner segment so it has flow across it from the moment the EDF is turning. Secondly, I wanted the outer area to have uninterupted airflow that is not disturbed(no elevon deflection).

View attachment 193545

Yiew underside showing elevons. A vertical piece of foam was added to 1) be a skid 2) as well as keeping the airflow seperate from each wing.
reversed wings will also gain from control surfaces against middle, because "airstream" would follow the LE, and here get to center. So ailerons against center would supposedly be best, says scientific studys.
 

L Edge

Master member
you also got a discussion on the similar terms here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2482467-Reverse-Flying-Wing-Project
&
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...planform-behave-straight-part-forward-are-the

Rhein-Flugzeugbau GmbH (RFB) have a WIG plane thats also triangleshaped, Lippish did some,also a few Russian , eg.... but thats for exploit the ground effect....

Reverse delta wing configuration, did Dr. A. Lippisch proved to be very stable in ground effect, it creates a very steady position of the Cm (pitching moment) when the wing is close to a surface.... up in air? well....

Again, fuselage were added. Has to be flight with swept wing forward only. This concept came from making my version of X-29 that flies.
.
 
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L Edge

Master member
A problem you'll have is the wing's twisting if I remember correctly. With model aircraft it's easier to make strong wings, but for full scale aircraft that was an issue they had to deal with. Just by looking at it I'm guessing you'll have a lot of yaw issues. Looking forward to the end result though. Very interesting project.

If I can get it launched, then we'll find out if yaw is a problem. That's the fun of it. I am hoping that the vertical stab top and bottom plus the flow of the EDF will keep the yaw problem in control.
 
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