FT 3D XL without landing gear?

[mcmoyer]

I just finished up my build of the FT 3D XL, and like every other one of my flight test builds (it seems) the landing gear aren't sturdy enough with the wire I used. I was hoping the doubling up on the insulation support wires would be enough, but it's not. With the clearance this has, I'm wondering if this would be a good belly lander. Has anyone tried this plane without landing gear?

 

[cjhagemeyer]

I had no issues on the normal sized 3d belly landing, just dont land under power to save your prop.

 

[mcmoyer]

Think I might try this before I do anything drastic.

 

[Merv]

I've built many FT3D's but none of the XL's. I always put gear on mine, like this. I use a thick music wire, about 4mm or 0.16 of a inch. I put tongue depressers both inside & outside the fuse, then attach the gear with zip ties. The zip ties will give way in a rough landing & are easy to replace. The wire is stiff enough for most landing yet will bend when needed. It's easily bent back into shape.

I think the FT3D would be a fine belly lander.

 

[Foamforce]

View attachment 239870
Think I might try this before I do anything drastic.

That wire looks pretty thin, even with that support. Are you using music (spring) wire? I would imagine that the 3D XL uses the FT thick landing gear wire, which is 1/8” music wire. I used that on my Storch and I did some pretty awful landings and several crash landings. The worst it has done is bend a half inch back during a crash landing, the stuff is that tough. It’s a pain in the butt to bend. There are two hardware stores near me that carry it.

 

[mcmoyer]

That wire looks pretty thin, even with that support. Are you using music (spring) wire? I would imagine that the 3D XL uses the FT thick landing gear wire, which is 1/8” music wire. I used that on my Storch and I did some pretty awful landings and several crash landings. The worst it has done is bend a half inch back during a crash landing, the stuff is that tough. It’s a pain in the butt to bend. There are two hardware stores near me that carry it.

I think you're right. There's a HobbyTown near me that has the 1/8" music wire. I'll stop by there and pick some up.

 

[Merv]

... 1/8" music wire...

With music wire you only get one chance to bent it before it breaks. I use regular wire, like from a coat hanger, to make a prototype. Once you are happy with the results, use the prototype as a guide to bent the thick stuff.

 

[mcmoyer]

This looks much better. Thanks for the motivation to do it right all.

 

[mcmoyer]

had my maiden flight with this on Saturday. I found out quickly that 3S doesn't cut it at 7k ft elevation, at least on the motor I have, a 3530 1100kv from Amazon. Full throttle kept it in a high alpha only. Going back this weekend with some 4S packs. Landing gear held up great though

 

[Merv]

...I have, a 3530 1100kv from Amazon...

I have had good results on 3s with the 3536 900Kv motor, using either an 11x4 or 12x4 prop

But I'm at 700 feet ASL not 7,000.

 

[Andy.T.]

I have had good results on 3s with the 3536 900Kv motor, using either an 11x4 or 12x4 prop

But I'm at 700 feet ASL not 7,000.

I love that you said this, because I have been trying to figure out how the puppy dogs to fit a 3536 into a plane sized for the swappables, like FT 3D - which as far as I can tell, are sized to hold a 2836. The motor mount that came w/ a 3536 I got off the jungle website (orange, D series), does not fit on a swappable powerpod and firewall. I suppose I could mill new mounting holes and trim off the "extra" length on the mount, assuming the motor even fits.

How else would one go about fitting a bigger motor in a swappable?

 

[Merv]

...I suppose I could mill new mounting holes...

I have never used a FT firewall. I've always made my own. I have used many raw materials, my current favorite is the 5 gal painting stirrers from Wal-Mart

https://www.walmart.com/ip/5-Gallon-Stir-Stick-Paint-Mixer-3-Pack/608467975

I have begun to explore 3D printing firewalls from pla with good results. It's likely I will switch when my current supply of paint sticks runs out. I have also use larger motors but found the 3536 is sufficient for the FT3D & Edge.

 

[Spitfire222]

Personally, I think landing gear on 3D foamies is just dead weight, and even more so in your case considering your elevation. For best 3D performance, you want a good power-to-weight ratio, and the landing gear is hurting you there while offering no benefits other than if your landing strip is asphalt/concrete. But one nice thing about 3D aircraft is that you can either catch them out of the sky when your hovering gets good enough, and or they can be plopped down on even the smallest patch of grass.

My recommendation would be, if you have grass to land on, skip the landing gear entirely.

 

[Piotrsko]

Also try a bit less pitch on the prop like a 3.5 instead of 4 or use a 3/4 sized 3 blade. Test first to see if it then makes enough thrust to try to pull out of your hand held vertical. If it gets really noisy, the tips are going sonic and losing thrust so you need a smaller diameter higher pitch prop. High alpha says it had enough power to fly trimmed flat and level. Get a couple mistakes high and lower the nose a bit ,see what happens.

 

[Andy.T.]

I have never used a FT firewall. I've always made my own. I have used many raw materials, my current favorite is the 5 gal painting stirrers from Wal-Mart

https://www.walmart.com/ip/5-Gallon-Stir-Stick-Paint-Mixer-3-Pack/608467975

I have begun to explore 3D printing firewalls from pla with good results. It's likely I will switch when my current supply of paint sticks runs out. I have also use larger motors but found the 3536 is sufficient for the FT3D & Edge.

Right, I'd love to put a 3536 sized motor into a swappable size plane. That power to weight sounds glorious. But how do you get them to fit? The swappable power pod fits a firewall that will hold a 2836, but as far as I've ever been able to figure out, the power pod is too small for a firewall sized big enough for a 3536.
Unless, would you maybe not use the x-mount at all and just screw the motor directly to the firewall? Maybe that would work??

 

[mcmoyer]

4S was much better, but I think there's something wrong with my ESC or motor. The motor is rated for a 12x6 prop, like I'm currently using. But the motor doesn't seem to be spinning fast and it's coming down hot. Wish I had my wattmeter with me. I've calibrated the ESC a few times now, but nothing changes.

Edit: after doing some more research on my cheap motor, it looks like it's rated for a 12x6 on 2S. Anyone have a suggestion for a better motor? Available on Amazon would be nice, but not necessary

 

[kdobson83]

I have never used a FT firewall. I've always made my own. I have used many raw materials, my current favorite is the 5 gal painting stirrers from Wal-Mart

https://www.walmart.com/ip/5-Gallon-Stir-Stick-Paint-Mixer-3-Pack/608467975

I have begun to explore 3D printing firewalls from pla with good results. It's likely I will switch when my current supply of paint sticks runs out. I have also use larger motors but found the 3536 is sufficient for the FT3D & Edge.

Be careful using PLA for motor mounts. Unless your electronic setup is supper efficient/runs cool, the heat produced by the motor will soften/melt the PLA and the screws can pull right out. This has happened to me twice now. lol I LOVE the new molded firewalls you can get off of the FT store, but when I do use my 3D printed ones, I make sure to use ABS or other plastic with a high melt temp. ABS is a bit harder to print/dial in compared to PLA, but not too bad.

 

[Merv]

Be careful using PLA for motor mounts. Unless your electronic setup is supper efficient/runs cool, the heat produced by the motor will soften/melt the PLA and the screws can pull right out...

Thanks for the warning. You are absolutely right.

I don't push my motors that hard. I've always felt if my motors got hot enough to melt PLA, that was way too hot.

 

[mcmoyer]

Personally, I think landing gear on 3D foamies is just dead weight, and even more so in your case considering your elevation. For best 3D performance, you want a good power-to-weight ratio, and the landing gear is hurting you there while offering no benefits other than if your landing strip is asphalt/concrete. But one nice thing about 3D aircraft is that you can either catch them out of the sky when your hovering gets good enough, and or they can be plopped down on even the smallest patch of grass.

My recommendation would be, if you have grass to land on, skip the landing gear entirely.

I think I'm going to make a 2nd mount for the wing tie downs without the landing gear. So far my beefier landing gear has held up, but the tail stub has already been destroyed by my not perfectly flat runway. Landing in grass is probably preferable.....or I can add a tail wheel, but that just adds weight.

 

[Foamforce]

Without landing gear does always fly better and isn’t necessary, but it adds a lot of fun. Practicing touch and goes and nailing a landing are both lots of fun. The Simple Scout is my favorite plane for that too.

How did you build your tail skid? I just do the triangular piece of foam and glue a skewer or chopstick to that. Don’t overhang the triangle much or the stick will break off easily. This is an area where it’s helpful to go heavy on the glue.