[HELP] KISS 18amp ESCs

[Winther]

Hello!

I'm about to get my first quad and would like to get it perfect in the first try, atleast when it comes to parts..

I have been in contact with the getfpv customer service and they are great but would like to have a few things clarified. The guy from getfpv told me that you have to solder on the wires which I'm ok with, but he also told me that I have to solder a few jumpers. Could someone please explain to what that means?

And out of curiousity the flyduino website says that the KISS ESCs includes the following:
1x KISS 18A ESC version 1.1, assembled board , bare PCB (New Version with bigger solder pads)
Makes it sound like it includes a full ready to use ESC (besides leads), an assembled board AND a bare PCB?

anyways, hope someone can help me here so I can get this ordered ASAP

 

[Winther]

Also, are there any other things I should know about this ESC?

 

[makattack]

Welcome to flitetest forums and the exciting and wonderful world of DIY multirotors! I'm addicted, but I'm also new.

I'm not familiar with the KISS ESC's other than what I've read on this forum. They sound great, but they also sound intimidating.

I'm new to multirotors, having built my first as a tricopter using the electrohub kit from FliteTest, and RTFQuads electronics kit with the MultiWii based Flip1.5 controller. They included preflashed simonK ESC's, and I have to say -- if I had to program the ESC's in addition to the flight controller, and doing the mechanical build part, I think I'd still be trying to sort out things and maybe would have to deal with smoked components.

I personally wouldn't touch those until after I at least finish building my 250 quad based on HK bits -- also with mostly cheap components.

Then, there's the learning aspect. I'm not sure I would want to learn to fly on a quad with high end components...

 

[Winther]

I dont really plan on having alot of quads, so I pour alot of money into one (hopefully) really fast QAV250.

I would rather pay a little more and get it right the first time, usually works out better for me in other espensive hobbies..

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Quad]

Hello!

I'm about to get my first quad and would like to get it perfect in the first try, atleast when it comes to parts..

I have been in contact with the getfpv customer service and they are great but would like to have a few things clarified. The guy from getfpv told me that you have to solder on the wires which I'm ok with, but he also told me that I have to solder a few jumpers. Could someone please explain to what that means?

And out of curiousity the flyduino website says that the KISS ESCs includes the following:
1x KISS 18A ESC version 1.1, assembled board , bare PCB (New Version with bigger solder pads)
Makes it sound like it includes a full ready to use ESC (besides leads), an assembled board AND a bare PCB?

anyways, hope someone can help me here so I can get this ordered ASAP

That is weird... Should be a fully assembled board besides leads.

 

[Craftydan]

That is weird... Should be a fully assembled board besides leads.

Not KISS ESCs. Wasn't kidding earlier about them needing a bit more care and feeding.


There are two jumpers on the board that will allow you to reverse the motor direction or enable oneshot-mode by shorting two terminals -- no programmer necessary. Handy, but to use it you need to do a little precise soldering.

Winther,

Other than motor direction, to get her up and running, you don't need to touch either jumper. If any of the motors are reversed, you can swap leads or short J7 -- your choice.

sometime after you've gotten a good feel for the quad and are ready to tune it tighter, then you'll need to short J6 to start playing with oneshot.

BTW, welcome to the forum!

 

[Winther]

Thanks alot Dan! That helped out alot, I found the manual on their website and it's actually pretty helpfull, even to someone with no first hand experience with ESCs

Well, I have no idea what oneshot is, but I wont think too much about that before I can fly my quad without smashing into everything..

Just ordered 4 of these and some wire packs, so I have officially started my ordering spree..

 

[jhitesma]

The KISS do come pre-assembled. However working with them is more difficult than many other ESC's.

They are TINY. And so are the connections on them. Get a magnifier for soldering even if you don't think you need one - even if it's true you don't need one it will still help. And you'll want that magnifier to inspect them carefully before powering them up. There have been problems with them being DOA due to bad components and manufacturing quality issues. Some of these issues can be avoided by giving them a careful inspection and cleaning before use. The KISS thread on RCG has lots of great info: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2083052&highlight=solder+balls

oneshot is a change in how the ESC and FC communicate. Short version is it makes it possible for the FC to send updates to the ESC much quicker and only works with FC's that support it. Long version there are several threads covering it

The KISS are amazing ESC's when they work. However when they fail it can take out a motor as well and usually involves smoke and/or flames.

They're high performance equipment and need to be treated like most high performance equipment - with care and an open wallet. They get into what I classify as the "racecar" category where things can start to be more expensive than they're worth for me to continue to classify them as fun (When I bought my sandrail it had a 15 year old race motor in it - that motor was a blast but I had to rebuild it twice in 3 years with more downtime for repairs than driving time. I replaced it with a newer stock motor and while it's not as powerful and doesn't turn as many heads - I have a LOT more fun, spend more time driving and much less time doing maintenance and repairs not to mention I now use as much gas in an entire weekend as it used to suck in an hour or two so the wallet impact is considerably lower!

The KISS aren't quite that bad. And they do provide a level of performance not available from any other ESC's out there. But they're expensive and carry some risks.

 

[C0d3M0nk3y]

This is a good explaination of oneshot.

 

[Winther]

Thank, nice info jhitesma, thanks! I kinda regret that I didnt order 5 now that I was at it, hopefully I wont get any DOA ones, but it would have been nice to have one extra is I do something dumb..
Oh, and would you know if the Naze32 supports oneshot?

I'll have a look at that video, thanks!

 

[jhitesma]

Naze32 does support oneshot - but only if you flash cleanflight instead of baseflight. Thankfully switching between BF and CF is pretty easy other than having to go through and setup all your settings.

Assuming you got the new v1.1 18a versions you hopefully won't have any DOA's as they've supposedly improved the QC on them.

 

[Ocean]

Cleanflight supports Oneshot. Cleanflight is a open source flight control software that works with the Naze.

Baseflight is what is recommended for the Naze32 by Timecop (the man who made it). It doesn't support oneshot (at least not yet).

Most people say that cleanflight is better, and it also has other features such as autotune, which can really help with tuning your multi if you don't know what to do.

 

[Winther]

Just bumped into another question here. Again I dont have experience with building a quad yet, so bear with me here, please.

When wiring the whole thing up, I have watched enough videos by now, to know that it is only necessary to connect one 5volt lead to the Naze32, the rest of the ESCs only need to have the signal cable connected to the Naze32 (bonus question: is it only necessary with the signal wire or also the ground?). My question now is, if the KISS ESCs even has the ability to supply a 5volt to the naze, or if I have to have an external 5volt BEC for that?

And if I get a 5volt BEC, can I connect more than one component to that BEC? or do I need one BEC for every 5volt component, I'm guessing with a 3amp BEC I can connect all the components I want, as long as they dont exceed 3amps in total?

I never really was good at physics and all the electronic stuff in school, so I have to pretty much learn this all over

 

[jhitesma]

The KISS do not have a BEC so they can't provide 5v to the Naze, you need an external BEC of some kind. The pololu regulators are popular since they're small and very efficient - but if you're doing FPV they can be noisy since they're a switching regulator. In that case you may need a filter on your FPV TX power.

You can connect as many components as the BEC has amperage to supply, you'd have to have a pretty crazy setup to be pulling 3A on a quad though Usually on a quad all you're powering is your FC, your RX and maybe an OSD and GPS. On an acro quad a 500ma BEC is fine since all you have to worry about are the FC and RX both of which draw next to nothing. On a FPV setup with OSD and GPS you still won't need much more than 1A or so. Tri's need more since the servo's can have a big current draw.

 

[Winther]

Thank you for the answer ones again!
It seems I'm finally starting to see the logic.. hehe

I am actually thinking of getting the MinimOSD and a GPS module, so could you by any chance recomend a good BEC from Hobbyking or maybe the whitespy site? Since I live in Europe I would like to keep the shipping costs as low as possible

What about this one? The amerage is a little excessive, but I cant seem to find any with low amperage
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__4319__TURNIGY_3A_UBEC_w_Noise_Reduction.html

 

[Quad]

The KISS are amazing ESC's when they work. However when they fail it can take out a motor as well and usually involves smoke and/or flames.

Is this mostly on 4s?

 

[Flat4]

Is this mostly on 4s?

With the original v1 KISS escs, it seemed to be caused more by manufacturing issues than applied voltage. However these things are tiny, and I can easily see how one could solder them improperly causing it to blow. I had one of my first 5 pop a capacitor on first power up, after carefully following all the advice on the rcgroups thread in regards to cleaning and inspecting. Luckily it didn't take the motor with it. Outside of that one I've had no issues, currently have 8 in use, with a good 30+ flights on them, all on 4s, and plenty of crashes.

 

[Winther]

Flat4, could you give me a link to that rcgroups thread? I have the V1.1 ESCs though, so I dont know if they have any of the same issues?

 

[jhitesma]

Can't really suggest a BEC as I've only used the pololu regulator: https://www.pololu.com/product/2843 That one from HK should be fine though as long as it's not too big or heavy for your plans.

Flat4 nailed it on the issues with the KISS, they seem to be manufacturing related and thankfully flyduino has been good about replacing them for people who experienced issues. The RCG thread on the KISS is here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2083052 But it's a long thread and there's no easy reference to the info about best practices for cleaning and inspecting...just kind of have to slog through the whole thing or at least search for some likely terms and skim a few pages of posts.

 

[Quad]

Can't really suggest a BEC as I've only used the pololu regulator: https://www.pololu.com/product/2843 That one from HK should be fine though as long as it's not too big or heavy for your plans.

Flat4 nailed it on the issues with the KISS, they seem to be manufacturing related and thankfully flyduino has been good about replacing them for people who experienced issues. The RCG thread on the KISS is here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2083052 But it's a long thread and there's no easy reference to the info about best practices for cleaning and inspecting...just kind of have to slog through the whole thing or at least search for some likely terms and skim a few pages of posts.

In the thread is a video on the cleaning... It is labeled blackout for the blackout quads...