Monte.C
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https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/ft-ez-three-pack-plans.63233/
People have had great fun with them! And I'm really inspired by the designs.
How did we all cope before flight stabilisers and gyros
- Thread starter TheFlyingBrit
- Start date
People have had great fun with them! And I'm really inspired by the designs.
slowjo
Master member
Im with u, I might fly better with expo but I've never experimented with it
Monte.C
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Me too! Might as well use a driving simulation on a computer instead of using cruise control. Same thing, IMHO just no way to get a speeding ticket on the computer. The question begs: but is that REALLY driving? I think not.
Timmy
Legendary member
Its not classic driving. You cant expect the definition of driving or flying to stay the same as tech keeps improoving. What was flying before is not flying today. However I do agree that using gyros and stuff is not pure classic flying.
Monte.C
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And if we can adjust throw and expo and a lot of other things on the fly then that's not classic flying. We used to have to take great care with which hole to put the rod in @servo and tail.
If I have a plane that helps the process a whole lot, and I have loads of fun with it, and you take offence to it, who's wrong here? Who's the loser? Me = happy. You = bitter, nasty, unhappy. I personally enjoy the full contact experience. But the more I object to anything the more I'm the loser.
Bricks
Master member
Real planes have autopilot so what they are not real pilots, maybe they need to go back to the hold days of a single stick and rudder pedals only. I see more and more of the older pilots using a flight stabilizer at our club, and wishing these would of been around years ago. None of them wish to go back to how they started yes they have good memories and many claim even with there experience that having flight stabilization back then would of made many more people stay in the hobby. Nothing like spending God knows how long and money building a plane and end up with a 10 second flight.
My hats off to any one that stays in the hobby know matter whether they use flight stabilization or not, if it is what it takes then I am all in. I will never tell anyone to not use anything that can make them successful or degrade them if that`s what will keep them in this hobby.
My hats off to any one that stays in the hobby know matter whether they use flight stabilization or not, if it is what it takes then I am all in. I will never tell anyone to not use anything that can make them successful or degrade them if that`s what will keep them in this hobby.
This elitist mentality is what drives away new people from the hobby and from AMA fields.
I do agree that full stabilization on a plane is really annoying and can make a plane completely neutered. However, using acro mode on a flight controller to take some of the effect of wind or poor flight characteristics is great.
You can still fly on 100% rates without really noticing it making corrections. Having the ability to flip to stabilized if you make a mistake, or have an itch on your nose, is far better then making a crater.
This also makes early success far more attainable. This makes people likely to return after their first major crash.
I do agree that full stabilization on a plane is really annoying and can make a plane completely neutered. However, using acro mode on a flight controller to take some of the effect of wind or poor flight characteristics is great.
You can still fly on 100% rates without really noticing it making corrections. Having the ability to flip to stabilized if you make a mistake, or have an itch on your nose, is far better then making a crater.
This also makes early success far more attainable. This makes people likely to return after their first major crash.
speedbirdted
Legendary member
I never fly with any gyros. I find I fly much better without them having any control over the airplane. The only ones I do use are AS3X and things like it but even then I go into the receiver with a computer and turn it off a lot of the time. I'm not saying gyros are a bad thing; for beginners the ability to save your plane from an otherwise irrecoverable attitude is pretty nice. But I don't think someone should learn to fly using them...
SAFE is like training wheels; it teaches you to use unconventional control inputs which really don't translate to what you do when you fly without it. If you were a little kid with your first bike at some point that had them you probably remember when you had the training wheels taken off you fell on your face a few times before you could actually ride the thing. I don't want to sound like an elitist but that never happened to me for the sole reason that my parents had the presence of mind to buy me a balance bike, which doesn't have pedals but no training wheels either so you learn how to stay upright on the thing right off the bat. I would consider a balance bike to be analogous to either having an instructor or a plane with less channels; I taught myself to fly without the former but with a plane with only rudder and elevator and lots of dihedral; giving you less things to have to worry about while also having the handy ability to stabilize itself, but with no gyros in the way. The result of that was it taught me the basic handling characteristics of an airplane and how the individual control functions can impact the flying of the airplane when they do 100% what your fingers tell them to instead of through a computer.
I also don't use expo. To some people it's a godsend but to me it just makes it feel like I've got a piece of cheese in between the sticks and my fingers.
SAFE is like training wheels; it teaches you to use unconventional control inputs which really don't translate to what you do when you fly without it. If you were a little kid with your first bike at some point that had them you probably remember when you had the training wheels taken off you fell on your face a few times before you could actually ride the thing. I don't want to sound like an elitist but that never happened to me for the sole reason that my parents had the presence of mind to buy me a balance bike, which doesn't have pedals but no training wheels either so you learn how to stay upright on the thing right off the bat. I would consider a balance bike to be analogous to either having an instructor or a plane with less channels; I taught myself to fly without the former but with a plane with only rudder and elevator and lots of dihedral; giving you less things to have to worry about while also having the handy ability to stabilize itself, but with no gyros in the way. The result of that was it taught me the basic handling characteristics of an airplane and how the individual control functions can impact the flying of the airplane when they do 100% what your fingers tell them to instead of through a computer.
I also don't use expo. To some people it's a godsend but to me it just makes it feel like I've got a piece of cheese in between the sticks and my fingers.
TheFlyingBrit
Legendary member
He needs to buy a plane thats easy to fly, rather than one that looks good but is difficult to fly without an FC.
OliverW
Legendary member
Most won't care. They'll just be happy to have another member!
OliverW
Legendary member
I agree. On lots of my planes I don't have any expo. The only times I actually dial in some is in the big 3D planes. I tried flying my slick without expo... Holy balls it was scary. I hate that I'm saying this, but I have 50% expo dialed in... It honestly needed that amount to fly controllable and be extremely sensitive
Monte.C
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Thanks, that's reassuring actually.
Piotrsko
Master member
Thats exactly my point: it needs to be scary. If you cannot walk to the edge of the cliff and look down then don't go to the edge of the cliff. I remember my first acro sloper, and how long it took me to stop adrenaline shaking, but then I have always been an adrenaline junkie.
If you want a gyro stabilization plane, then I feel sorry for you.
OliverW
Legendary member
I agree there. I wanted to actually be able to control it though lol. It was a bucking bronco. I had just gotten it and I didn't really want to destroy it due to how expensive a replacement is
whackflyer
Master member
I think autolevel gyros have their place only for the noobiest noobs. I learned to fly on realflight and never looked back, I've never owned a plane with a gyro save an ar636 I bought when I was in ignorance, but that was only AS3X. In fact my first plane was a 3D foamie. In jets and stuff it's nice to have AS3X but if you have to have SAFE to fly you're doing it wrong. You don't actually feel out the plane and learn to fly it and it comes back to bite you when you turn it off. When I fly someone else's plane with safe I immediately turn it off. Just my two cents...
OliverW
Legendary member
I 100% agree. I started on real flight when I was 3 years old and pretty much figured out hey I can crash it really hard if I fly it up high, and then I got bored of crashing and just started cruising. All this talk is making me want to go fly something lol
TheFlyingBrit
Legendary member
I have never used flight stabilisation or a gyro on a plane, I learn't to fly without and its done me no harm. I taught my son to fly without flight stabilisation he is now doing acrobatics more confidently than I do.
I started him off with the basics using FT Flyer, I got it in the air for him 3 mistakes high and said "have fun". He had a couple of rough landings and it took a couple of attempts but he eventually got the hang of it. Then I went from a 2s battery to a 3s and we tried again, he soon got use to the speed and handling.
Next stage was the Tiny trainer 3ch with a 500mAh 2s, different plane different charactersitics. When he got confident with that he learn't how to hand launch himself, then landing under control.
We progressed on to the 4ch Tiny trainer, ailerons took a bit to get use to but eventually he got the hang of it, from then on he never looked back. He even built his own version og the Tiny trainer 4ch and taught himself rolls and inverted.
Its all about having the right plane and taking your time, once you have that muscle memory it becomes second nature with the controls. Its just a matter of getting use to each planes flight characteristics after that.
I am just in the procss of building him a Simple Scout, so he can practice taking off and landing with a model using a tail dragger undercarriage. Once he has mastered the Scout. He can progress to my Volantex Trainstar Ascent, its got a 1.4 m wingspan and he can continue learning with that.
I am hoping he will of passed his safe solo test at the club by late spring early Summer 2021, after that he can then really learn to fly on his own.
I started him off with the basics using FT Flyer, I got it in the air for him 3 mistakes high and said "have fun". He had a couple of rough landings and it took a couple of attempts but he eventually got the hang of it. Then I went from a 2s battery to a 3s and we tried again, he soon got use to the speed and handling.
Next stage was the Tiny trainer 3ch with a 500mAh 2s, different plane different charactersitics. When he got confident with that he learn't how to hand launch himself, then landing under control.
We progressed on to the 4ch Tiny trainer, ailerons took a bit to get use to but eventually he got the hang of it, from then on he never looked back. He even built his own version og the Tiny trainer 4ch and taught himself rolls and inverted.
Its all about having the right plane and taking your time, once you have that muscle memory it becomes second nature with the controls. Its just a matter of getting use to each planes flight characteristics after that.
I am just in the procss of building him a Simple Scout, so he can practice taking off and landing with a model using a tail dragger undercarriage. Once he has mastered the Scout. He can progress to my Volantex Trainstar Ascent, its got a 1.4 m wingspan and he can continue learning with that.
I am hoping he will of passed his safe solo test at the club by late spring early Summer 2021, after that he can then really learn to fly on his own.
TheFlyingBrit
Legendary member
Some very interesting points mentioned which makes for some good reading and good points to consider. Must admit I always set up 3 control rate settings on a 3 position switch for a maiden flight. Depending on the model will also add some expo on the lowest rate until Ive got it flying level and trimmed out.
Its personal preference at the end of the day, until I have the model in the air and know how its going to react to the controls on a first flight. I nearly always take the cautious approach of reduced throws. Its saved me crashing many a model. I have a really good track record with getting maiden planes back on the ground in one piece.
Its personal preference at the end of the day, until I have the model in the air and know how its going to react to the controls on a first flight. I nearly always take the cautious approach of reduced throws. Its saved me crashing many a model. I have a really good track record with getting maiden planes back on the ground in one piece.
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