How did we all cope before flight stabilisers and gyros

[TheFlyingBrit]

Coming originally from a Scientific and Engineering background, I love technology and particularly love the way life has become easier with all the advancements that have been introduced in my lifetime.
Mobile phones, Sat Nav's, Laptops even wide screen TV's for us with optical impared individuals .

But one thing that sadens me it the growing use of flight staibilisers and gyros on RC planes. Don't get me wrong everything has its uses and these are no exception, they can be used for flying in ridiculously windy weather that you would never usually consider flying in. They can be used big scale planes or warbird's that took you years to build, so you only need to concentrate on the flight characteristics of the plane rather than the combined influence of wind. Learners first starting off can gain a safety net from these things, to begin with.
However, is it really flying ?
When you can flick a switch and the plane takes off for you, or even lands by itself . You can set these up to limit your flying space giving you a perimeter, you can have a return to home switch too.
It doesn't end there, it can even limit your control movements ! If that's the future of the hobby its sad, I suggest uou drive to your club place the model plane on the runway then read a book . The plane can take off itself around for 10 minutes, in perfect circles then when its battery is low fly back and land on its own. All your needed for is changing the batteries and its off again ?
I am old school I can fly in wind, in fact I love the challenge. You have to learn how to fly in wind in the UK, as you very rarely get perfect calm days. I dont want some instrument to correct my planes controls, that's what I am there for ! I certainly dont want it taking the plane off and landing it for me agin thats part of the enjoyment and skill that you gain from flying planes.
I want to know at what speed my plane stalls, I want to have the full range of controls too so I can see what the plane can do and if I can handle it.

People will have there own views on these tools and there uses, but for people coming into the hobby it takes away some of the skill you aquire from flying models with just your ability and knowledge and that is what these devices take away from you, the chance to learn and develop.

This is just my own opinion everyone is entitled to there views, I just think that for once technology and innovation are taking something from the hobby rather than giving us something.

 

[OliverW]

Coming originally from a Scientific and Engineering background, I love technology and particularly love the way life has become easier with all the advancements that have been introduced in my lifetime.
Mobile phones, Sat Nav's, Laptops even wide screen TV's for us with optical impared individuals .

But one thing that sadens me it the growing use of flight staibilisers and gyros on RC planes. Don't get me wrong everything has its uses and these are no exception, they can be used for flying in ridiculously windy weather that you would never usually consider flying in. They can be used big scale planes or warbird's that took you years to build, so you only need to concentrate on the flight characteristics of the plane rather than the combined influence of wind. Learners first starting off can gain a safety net from these things, to begin with.
However, is it really flying ?
When you can flick a switch and the plane takes off for you, or even lands by itself . You can set these up to limit your flying space giving you a perimeter, you can have a return to home switch too.
It doesn't end there, it can even limit your control movements ! If that's the future of the hobby its sad, I suggest uou drive to your club place the model plane on the runway then read a book . The plane can take off itself around for 10 minutes, in perfect circles then when its battery is low fly back and land on its own. All your needed for is changing the batteries and its off again ?
I am old school I can fly in wind, in fact I love the challenge. You have to learn how to fly in wind in the UK, as you very rarely get perfect calm days. I dont want some instrument to correct my planes controls, that's what I am there for ! I certainly dont want it taking the plane off and landing it for me agin thats part of the enjoyment and skill that you gain from flying planes.
I want to know at what speed my plane stalls, I want to have the full range of controls too so I can see what the plane can do and if I can handle it.

People will have there own views on these tools and there uses, but for people coming into the hobby it takes away some of the skill you aquire from flying models with just your ability and knowledge and that is what these devices take away from you, the chance to learn and develop.

This is just my own opinion everyone is entitled to there views, I just think that for once technology and innovation are taking something from the hobby rather than giving us something.

I agree. The only thing I would use them on is one of the big aerobatic turbine jets since they can't really fly well without one. Otherwise I avoid them for the most part. I flew my cub in 30mph wind one time and boy was that fun. It's fun to just cruise around and play on the wind

 

[Hoomi]

Right now, the only two planes I have with gyros are the 64mm Stinger and 64mm F-22 EDF jets (and I haven't maidened the F-22 yet, as I keep debating whether I would be better waiting until I can do so off a paved runway, instead of our dirt). My second plane, the Flyzone Sensei, had a gyro, and I used it maybe a couple of times before I decided it was more annoying than helpful in that plane.

That said, if other pilots prefer having gyros and flight stabilization firmware in their planes, then it's their flying experience, and I hope they're having as much fun as I'm having. It can also be very helpful when new pilots are learning, and can make the difference between learning with successful flights, or getting frustrated by crashes and quitting before developing the skills and finesse to fly without the assistance. Not everyone has access to patient instructors with buddy-box rigs to help them get past those new-pilot "Oh-no" moments.

 

[OliverW]

Right now, the only two planes I have with gyros are the 64mm Stinger and 64mm F-22 EDF jets (and I haven't maidened the F-22 yet, as I keep debating whether I would be better waiting until I can do so off a paved runway, instead of our dirt). My second plane, the Flyzone Sensei, had a gyro, and I used it maybe a couple of times before I decided it was more annoying than helpful in that plane.

That said, if other pilots prefer having gyros and flight stabilization firmware in their planes, then it's their flying experience, and I hope they're having as much fun as I'm having. It can also be very helpful when new pilots are learning, and can make the difference between learning with successful flights, or getting frustrated by crashes and quitting before developing the skills and finesse to fly without the assistance. Not everyone has access to patient instructors with buddy-box rigs to help them get past those new-pilot "Oh-no" moments.

I agree. I was stating my opinion on gyros. I have nothing against people who want to fly with them. I don't see it as a problem or anything

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I think for basic, raw beginners just starting off who have no trainer support they are a good introduction to the hobby. As long as they don't become reliant on them, crashing is part of the hobby its how we learn and how we grow. Crashes are not always a bad thing, they teach us how not to do things wrong in the future.
The only time crashes are bad, are when it becomes a regular habbit. Or when you total a very expensive model, that took along time to build or had sentimental value .

 

[mrjdstewart]

i maidend a new plane for guy today and the first thing i asked is how do i turn off the SAFE! i will fly it, trim it, land it, then you can mess with safe. i don't need a nanny. if i do my job, then when you flip that switch it should fly even better.

i understand wanting the option but you will never move beyond with it.

just my $.02,

me

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

i maidend a new plane for guy today and the first thing i asked is how do i turn off the SAFE! i will fly it, trim it, land it, then you can mess with safe. i don't need a nanny. if i do my job, then when you flip that switch it should fly even better.

i understand wanting the option but you will never move beyond with it.

just my $.02,

me

Sir you are so right, I couldn't agree more.
I say leave flight stabilisation and gyros to the drone boys. Being able to flick a switch that launches their drone on its journey, is perfect. They can then adjust there FPV head set and reach for a cold drink and enjoy the journey from a chair on the patio.

 

[sprzout]

I’ve seen more problems with SAFE and gyro limiters than without them. I watched my father, when he was first learning to fly, crash a plane into a tree because his Sensei didn’t have the ability to lean more when a gust of wind came up. I’ve seen numerous students at my club trying to fly with these gyros on, and having near misses with the pilot’s box or midairs because they couldn’t turn the plane enough to get out of the way.

While there IS a legitimate use for them (I love that AS3X can help keep my F-27 Evolution stable when I start pushing it through an 80 mph dive, or keep my quads flying like they’re on rails when I start snapping them through the gates or freestyle), they can be a complete detriment to new students that can’t angle the plane to save it or keep things safe.

 

[Flite Risk]

mini popwing:
100% rates
0 expo

I am the flight controller.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

We have some amazing pilots/fliers at my club (of which I do not include myself by the way), none of them would be caught using a gyro or flight stabilisation not even on jets.
I once made the mistake of asking, during a general conversation. Does anyone in the club used flight stabilisation, at which point the cabin went silent.
I got started at, like I just murdered a member of their families lol

 

[Flite Risk]

mini popwing:
100% rates
0 expo

I am the flight controller.

anyone can do that on that wing, it makes me a better pilot, it is very forgiving.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I like being able to fly planes others struggle with or can't fly, it gives me great satisfaction.
I am not an aerobatic expert quite the opposite, the odd loop, rolls and inverted and thats about it.
But hand me a transmitter for a plane plane, that's tail heavy and out of trim and in windy conditions and ask me to land it Im in my element.

 

[Ketchup]

I agree with a lot that is in this thread. My delta ray is what I learned on and I haven't had a real flight on it in years because it just won't turn fast enough. Even in advanced mode the thing doesn't have much responsiveness if I remember correctly. These days I fly most things with all rates and no expo and enjoy it that way, so I don't really need a gyro for stabilization or to smooth stuff out. I even like to fly in the wind and it is fun to cruise a plane around into the wind at like 5-10 mph ground speed while also fighting minor gusts, I feel like a gyro kinda takes that away. When I teach my dad it will be on an apprentice and as soon as he can fly without safe on I will try to get him off it. I haven't had much luck teaching him to fly in the past couple years but hopefully I can have better luck this time.

 

[Ketchup]

One of the only things I would try building a gyro into is a project that I have wanted to do for a while. I can build a really unstable jet that is slightly tail heavy and use a gyro to smooth it out while still being able to take full advantage of its unstable nature. Basically like a modern jet fighter. I might need to put one into some other plane in the future but honestly I can't think of a plane that I would fly that would need one.

 

[Jackson T]

I learned to fly with a Hobbyzone Supercub S (S for SAFE technology). The inbuilt gyro had self levelling and pitch/bank limiting features. I appreciated the gyro while learning to fly, but switched it off when I could manage without it. I would never fly with one these days, like you pointed out the challenge is managing the wind and the plane's quirks. In saying that, I think they still have their place for assisting beginners.

 

[danskis]

For what it's worth...... I know a guy that is in and out of the hobby because he mostly flys planes out of his ability level using a FC. However he feels enormous pressure (not from fellow pilots) to fly without it...so he does. Inevitably he crashes and we don't see him for a month. Does he have unrealistic expectations.... probably.

 

[quorneng]

My own view is there is a huge difference between auto stability (as for quads) and rate assistance.
Gyro stability tries to return the plane to its original attitude. Rate assistance just counters the rate of change but once displaced does not try to restore that displacement. A rate gyro does not get you out of trouble but slows the rate you get into it!
After all learning to fly is very much a case of developing not only the appropriate eye/finger response and also its rate of reaction.

 

[Intashu]

I fly at a local field with my ol man, I gotta say between us, having started this hobby this spring and each of us having built at LEAST 25 planes (I've seriously lost count of how many we've built, crashed, and thrown away while finding which planes we enjoy flying the most)

Neither of us have yet to use a flight control system.. But I absolutely believe a few of my father's planes could benefit from one. specifically the master series war birds that he just enjoys flying around the park because they look terrific. Yesterday he spent more time walking through the snow to pick it up and throw it again than actually flying it through the air. A take-off assist would have saved half his launches from rolling left and stalling.. He was trying to muddle with controls and trim and struggles to do that when it's not close to straight from the get-go.

I think NEW pilots could gain a lot for easy entry into the hobby by using a assisted flight, I plan to build a plane with my 9 year old kiddo this spring for him to fly himself. and I intend to get a Gryo assist for that plane as he's pretty quick to panic and cut throttle when it doesn't do what he expects, and it will help negate even a gentle breeze... But I also do not intend for him to have it on all his planes, if he gets into the Hobby even a fraction of what I did, he will be flying un-assisted planes by mid-summer. But having that crutch for the first plane will help new pilots get the thrill of flying without as much of the fear of crashing right away, and if you're just starting out... It's easy to be discouraged from trying again and again if your plane needs repairs because of an unsuccessful maiden launch multiple times in a row. Lowering the skill curve for getting into the hobby is fine... and for some planes where all you want is a controlled lazy flight I think they are excellent. Just so long as it's not something one becomes reliant on NEEDING to be able to fly at all, after having been in the air for a few hours to understand the muscle memory for controls and how flying works.

As for take off and landing auto assist.. That sounds awesome, But I can also see it as a skill worth learning how to do. Same with it would be nice at times to snap a switch and the plane will fly itself in a circle while I address something happening on the ground, or assist someone with a launch, or figure out what my kiddo's getting into trouble with.. without having to fear my plane will fly off into the horizon or into the ground because I dared to look away for 10 seconds. Certainly I can't see the appeal in having the plane take off, fly, and land itself while I drink a lemonade the whole time however. Unless it's also able to fetch me a refill before it returns!


SO in short, Having something assist you from getting into trouble would be great for the right planes and the right reasons, but having too much assistance definitely can get you into more trouble because you are flying beyond your capabilities and a flight assistant is only ASSISTING you, not flying for you. Using one on a fragile plane, or a good lazy flier.. or even getting a novice to try the hobby safely are all good reasons for using one. Using one because the plane you have it in is uncontrollable for you without it... is a bad idea however!

 

[Monte.C]

Ok I get you, mostly, I sure don't want to cripple myself by flying only toys that fly themselves. But let's take care not to cross the line into a distinctly elitist stance, right? (I have visions of showing up at a real model plane field and being snubbed because I have a cardboard plane.) I haven't flown with a flight controller/stabilizer yet, and every plane that I've flown has been of my own design. But everything does have it's place. What about the EZ pack that so many people have had so much fun with, including seasoned flyers? We have a 26 page thread of scratch-designed and built FT-EZ plans. My current half-built project is a micro-mini powered glider that I'm thinking I want gyro-assist on for a more pleasurable experience.

 

[Intashu]

We have a 26 page thread of scratch-designed and built FT-EZ plans.

Can you link the thread of scratch built FT-EZ plans? I swear I can't find anything via the search function of this forum and want to see what people have come up with!