Just VENTING about Corona-HYSTERIA

[The Hangar]

I'm not going to go invade their personal space, or sneeze on them. I do have enough respect to do that.

Well kinda, but even if you're not trying to infect someone, it can easily happen.

 

[The Hangar]

That's the thing we just don't know, I think until we truly know what we're up against we should stay safe. I also want to iterate that I'm slightly on the fence. If I was living without any loved ones I'd probably be taking more risks like going out in public more often.

I agree.

 

[Grifflyer]

1: I would prefer to walk out and help someone than let the gunfighters kill each other. Bravery is only bravery if it is used to accomplish something. Otherwise it is just stupidity. I would not walk into a line of fire just for the heck of it.

2: You do have a good point there, but my family and I have all decided that it is worth the risk. They are willing to catch the virus and achieve immunity so it's actually better for me to catch it.

3: That's what sucks about this world. Nothing is perfectly safe. There is always going to be some risk involved when doing anything. With that mentality why don't we outlaw cars because people crash? Nothing ever gets done without any risk involved.

1. Yes I agree with you but going out in public unprotected isn't accomplishing anything (as far as I can see that is)
2. As long as you are all in agreement
3. And we need to try to make it safer by sacrificing a few months of our lives to keep the world safer.

 

[Hondo76251]

Well you guys decided it is worth the risk, but how about all the people you infect before you realize you have it? Did you consult with them? And also, kinda aside the point, but it looks like Corona will probably mutate, so there probably won't be "get it once and have immunity..."

And so no vaccine is likely to be tremendously effective. "Coronavirus " is nothing new and we've never had great luck at a vaccine before, so what's the answer? When will you consider it safe? or at least, "safe enough?"

That's the thing we just don't know, I think until we truly know what we're up against we should stay safe. I also want to iterate that I'm slightly on the fence. If I was living without any loved ones I'd probably be taking more risks like going out in public more often.

I understand. I don't want to sound like I'm belittling anyones choices. We all have to take the information we're given and make the best decision we can with it. The trouble is that we really don't know, not even the experts have solid facts for us. Best they can do is try to sift through pre-existing data and work forward from there for a prediction and as it turns out, that hasn't been that effective. I don't see malice in that, at least not from most, just people making do with what they have.

 

[Grifflyer]

And so no vaccine is likely to be tremendously effective. "Coronavirus " is nothing new and we've never had great luck at a vaccine before, so what's the answer? When will you consider it safe? or at least, "safe enough?"




I understand. I don't want to sound like I'm belittling anyones choices. We all have to take the information we're given and make the best decision we can with it. The trouble is that we really don't know, not even the experts have solid facts for us. Best they can do is try to sift through pre-existing data and work forward from there for a prediction and as it turns out, that hasn't been that effective. I don't see malice in that, at least not from most, just people making do with what they have.

Exactly and everyone's choice is going to be different which I respect.

 

["Corpse"]

Exactly and everyone's choice is going to be different which I respect.

Same!

 

[leaded50]

as said, Immunity isnt shure is something who happend, Thats different questions by healthscientist if will happend or not. What they found is that people already gone true it, get infected again, and in some cases, strong proof the virus have muted to another version.......

 

[kuhlrunner]

I live in Canada.

Cool! What's going on up there, is it similar to what you can tell is happening in the US?

 

[The Hangar]

And so no vaccine is likely to be tremendously effective. "Coronavirus " is nothing new and we've never had great luck at a vaccine before, so what's the answer? When will you consider it safe? or at least, "safe enough?"

Tough questions. We can't stay in our homes forever, but again we don't all want to go back to normal and have a reoccurring wave of cases. Research shows that the widespread usage of proper masks could really help, and that way we could open things up. The problem is that masks protect others from you, not really you at all. This is what many Asians do, but we all know that wouldn't be tolerated AT ALL here. it would most be a violation to your rights of happiness!

 

[kuhlrunner]

This is possibly a bit late but I would like to point out that "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" is not in the Constitution. It is in the Declaration of Independence but is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution.
The Constitution does say this though, I read the entire thing yesterday:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The Supreme Court of Wisconsin addressed this issue when it overturned the Wisconsin quarantine.

As for masks I think people are putting a bit too much faith in them. A 3M dust mask is designed to stop dust. A typical sawdust particle is big enough to be measured on a ruler with the naked eye. A virus is only a few microns across, a dust mask simply isn't rated to stop pathogens that size and won't make much of a difference. Plus they don't have a good seal either.
In short it just seems like the modern equivalent of 1950's "Duck and Cover" drills.

If there is a real concern about safety then go to your local Army/Navy store and pick up an NBC mask, you can get Israeli or old Russian ones for pretty cheap. I personally own several. The filter will have multiple HEPA filters, sometimes a contained asbestos filter layer, and activated charcoal. They'll stop pretty much anything, including CS Agent which is a nice bonus.

A guy on Dennis Prager's show, I can't remember his name, had a good way of putting it. I'm paraphrasing a bit but here it is: "Guys working in trades tend to handle danger differently than others; they're surrounded by danger every day and it's a necessary part of their jobs. Any power tool has the capability to maim or kill; when a carpenter goes to use a table saw that saw can easily kill him. There is a safer way to do the job- he could use a hand saw and be almost completely safe from any injury. He's got 48 boards to rip though. If he used a hand saw it would take him years. So here's what he does: the carpenter acknowledges the danger and takes precautions to avoid injury. He puts on gloves and safety glasses and makes sure he's using the machine correctly, maybe if it's a small piece he uses a tool to keep his hands away from the blade. Then he starts up the table saw.
It's time for America to start up the table saw."

Thanks for pointing that out. I am quite aware of this, as it is an important part of our history. As you likely are aware, this document was written by Thomas Jefferson, a founding father who believed that all men are created equal, and that all are born with three unalienable rights, which are the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I too strongly believe these things, and they are the framework upon which the constitution and mainly the bill of rights are built. In saying this, I was making the point of how we have the duty of making sure the FAA stays at a good distance from our Nutballs and Arrows, which I'm sure you agree with. As for masks, I could talk for a while about how even if they don't do much, they encourage people to follow social distancing guidelines and thus help to stop the spread of COVID. If you'd like to hear my theory let me know, otherwise I'll continue to follow this thread. I'm glad people with opposing opinions can still make educated discussions without dissolving into chaos. This reflects well on the people who enjoy this hobby.

 

["Corpse"]

Thanks for pointing that out. I am quite aware of this, as it is an important part of our history. As you likely are aware, this document was written by Thomas Jefferson, a founding father who believed that all men are created equal, and that all are born with three unalienable rights, which are the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I too strongly believe these things, and they are the framework upon which the constitution and mainly the bill of rights are built. In saying this, I was making the point of how we have the duty of making sure the FAA stays at a good distance from our Nutballs and Arrows, which I'm sure you agree with. As for masks, I could talk for a while about how even if they don't do much, they encourage people to follow social distancing guidelines and thus help to stop the spread of COVID. If you'd like to hear my theory let me know, otherwise I'll continue to follow this thread. I'm glad people with opposing opinions can still make educated discussions without dissolving into chaos. This reflects well on the people who enjoy this hobby.

And I'm glad that while we argue, we aren't making stupid and shallow posts. That shows we care enough about the topic.

 

[The Hangar]

And I'm glad that while we argue, we aren't making stupid and shallow posts. That shows we care enough about the topic.

Most definitely yes! That happens all too often on social media.. **twitter**

 

[The Hangar]

Thanks for pointing that out. I am quite aware of this, as it is an important part of our history. As you likely are aware, this document was written by Thomas Jefferson, a founding father who believed that all men are created equal, and that all are born with three unalienable rights, which are the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I too strongly believe these things, and they are the framework upon which the constitution and mainly the bill of rights are built. In saying this, I was making the point of how we have the duty of making sure the FAA stays at a good distance from our Nutballs and Arrows, which I'm sure you agree with. As for masks, I could talk for a while about how even if they don't do much, they encourage people to follow social distancing guidelines and thus help to stop the spread of COVID. If you'd like to hear my theory let me know, otherwise I'll continue to follow this thread. I'm glad people with opposing opinions can still make educated discussions without dissolving into chaos. This reflects well on the people who enjoy this hobby.

Keep the posts coming! Yours are always well thought out!

 

[Hondo76251]

but again we don't all want to go back to normal and have a reoccurring wave of cases.

We "flattened the curve" we WILL have a re-occurrence of cases come fall... places like Sweden will not. Only time will tell who made the right choice.

This is what many Asians do, but we all know that wouldn't be tolerated AT ALL here. it would most be a violation to your rights of happiness!

As we've all noted, we all have different views here and I truly enjoy that this is about the most intelligent discussion i've seen on the topic so far so I don't want to come across as rude, but I don't think you've lived your life and experienced what it takes to appreciate what freedom is in the same way as some of us have.

I believe that the principles that found this great nation of ours should not be dismantled due to any perceived threat. Its not that I think we shouldn't look out for our fellow man, that if you live in an area where if you sneeze it will cover 20+ people that it might be a good idea to put on a mask... its that I don't think the government has the authority to compel you to do so. I will die for that principle same as I will for my right to free speech and to keep and bear arms. There are religious based laws in other countries, put in place to safeguard your immortal soul, that require the covering of a human face... what's a little covid compared to the value of an immortal soul? What you believe and what I believe may be different, but the principles that govern our country give us the unparalleled opportunity for both of us to live in peace together. If we fail to uphold our principles in times of turmoil then they are not truly principles. If we have no principles we will fall.

Hard times make strong men. Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make Hard times. This has been repeated since the dawn of man. Where do you suppose we are on this cycle?

 

[Crawford Bros. Aeroplanes]

I made the decision early on in the pandemic not to let anyone's opinions affect my relationship with them. This is a temporary issue and there's no reason to stay mad at someone over it. I'm glad this conversation has remained civil and so far nobody seems to be letting it get between each other.

Far too often it seems people just tout the slogans they hear on the news, everyone here is providing intelligent and we'll thought out points and I agree with @kuhlrunner and @"Corpse" that it seems to show deeper research and understanding than what is seen far too often in other places. Good job guys, keep it coming.

My family is also in agreement about the risk, we take precautions to protect those of us who are at higher risk but even my grandparents aren't at terribly high risk. My grandfather is in his 80s and runs 3 miles every morning l, I think my dad is probably at higher risk then he is. Not the case for everyone though, I'm just bragging on my grandfather's behalf lol

 

[Crawford Bros. Aeroplanes]

We "flattened the curve" we WILL have a re-occurrence of cases come fall... places like Sweden will not. Only time will tell who made the right choice.

As we've all noted, we all have different views here and I truly enjoy that this is about the most intelligent discussion i've seen on the topic so far so I don't want to come across as rude, but I don't think you've lived your life and experienced what it takes to appreciate what freedom is in the same way as some of us have.

I believe that the principles that found this great nation of ours should not be dismantled due to any perceived threat. Its not that I think we shouldn't look out for our fellow man, that if you live in an area where if you sneeze it will cover 20+ people that it might be a good idea to put on a mask... its that I don't think the government has the authority to compel you to do so. I will die for that principle same as I will for my right to free speech and to keep and bear arms. There are religious based laws in other countries, put in place to safeguard your immortal soul, that require the covering of a human face... what's a little covid compared to the value of an immortal soul? What you believe and what I believe may be different, but the principles that govern our country give us the unparalleled opportunity for both of us to live in peace together. If we fail to uphold our principles in times of turmoil then they are not truly principles. If we have no principles we will fall.

Hard times make strong men. Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make Hard times. This has been repeated since the dawn of man. Where do you suppose we are on this cycle?

I think someone might've tacoed the wheel on that cycle..

 

[kuhlrunner]

We "flattened the curve" we WILL have a re-occurrence of cases come fall... places like Sweden will not. Only time will tell who made the right choice.

As we've all noted, we all have different views here and I truly enjoy that this is about the most intelligent discussion i've seen on the topic so far so I don't want to come across as rude, but I don't think you've lived your life and experienced what it takes to appreciate what freedom is in the same way as some of us have.

I believe that the principles that found this great nation of ours should not be dismantled due to any perceived threat. Its not that I think we shouldn't look out for our fellow man, that if you live in an area where if you sneeze it will cover 20+ people that it might be a good idea to put on a mask... its that I don't think the government has the authority to compel you to do so. I will die for that principle same as I will for my right to free speech and to keep and bear arms. There are religious based laws in other countries, put in place to safeguard your immortal soul, that require the covering of a human face... what's a little covid compared to the value of an immortal soul? What you believe and what I believe may be different, but the principles that govern our country give us the unparalleled opportunity for both of us to live in peace together. If we fail to uphold our principles in times of turmoil then they are not truly principles. If we have no principles we will fall.

Hard times make strong men. Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make Hard times. This has been repeated since the dawn of man. Where do you suppose we are on this cycle?

Just curious, what principle do you see has the potential to be dismantled at the moment?
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I absolutely understand your view of government involvement in the current situation. However, I believe that although they should not force us to uphold strict regulations as have been seen in other countries, regulations like stay-home and social distancing directives (even masks) are put into place for the good of the people and not just as a misuse of power. (I think someone earlier mentioned misuse of emergency powers?) If you feel that these regulations infringe on your inalienable and constitutional rights, you have every reason to not adhere to such guidelines, just stay conscious of the fact that the guidelines were placed to serve as a way to try to prevent the spread of this virus. Same as masks are not perfect and don't overall protect you from getting the virus, neither do social distancing guidelines, but at the moment we don't really have anything better. I try personally to adhere to the guidelines to serve what I see as the greater good.

 

[Hondo76251]

My family is also in agreement about the risk, we take precautions to protect those of us who are at higher risk but even my grandparents aren't at terribly high risk. My grandfather is in his 80s and runs 3 miles every morning l, I think my dad is probably at higher risk then he is. Not the case for everyone though, I'm just bragging on my grandfather's behalf lol

I have an extended group of friends that I train with, lots of ex military, police, sheriffs deputies, ect. We lost a good friend in our circle fairly early in this pandemic. He was not what you would call an exceptional risk factor. Maybe a bit out of shape, but a strong young man none the less. I'm not calloused to the dangers of this disease. My dad is in his 70's, a chain smoker since he was 12, but in overall surprisingly good health. Despite my urging, he has done virtually nothing to protect himself. He still hangs out at his local coffee shop, eats dinner in the local restaurants, (again, this is South Dakota so no large spread of cases but also, no shutdown) He's an old cowboy. He will never wear a mask. The sh*t i've seen that man survive in this life defies description. Even though I worry for him, he's part cockroach I swear, he's probably typhoid marry himself... but I digress... that is his choice. Given the choice, he would not want to shut down the world on his behalf for a chance at a few more years. Nor would I. I'm not afraid of death, I'm afraid of not living.

 

["Corpse"]

I have an extended group of friends that I train with, lots of ex military, police, sheriffs deputies, ect. We lost a good friend in our circle fairly early in this pandemic. He was not what you would call an exceptional risk factor. Maybe a bit out of shape, but a strong young man none the less. I'm not calloused to the dangers of this disease. My dad is in his 70's, a chain smoker since he was 12, but in overall surprisingly good health. Despite my urging, he has done virtually nothing to protect himself. He still hangs out at his local coffee shop, eats dinner in the local restaurants, (again, this is South Dakota so no large spread of cases but also, no shutdown) He's an old cowboy. He will never wear a mask. The sh*t i've seen that man survive in this life defies description. Even though I worry for him, he's part cockroach I swear, he's probably typhoid marry himself... but I digress... that is his choice. Given the choice, he would not want to shut down the world on his behalf for a chance at a few more years. Nor would I. I'm not afraid of death, I'm afraid of not living.

Awesome post, and quote! Love it.

 

[Hondo76251]

Just curious, what principle do you see has the potential to be dismantled at the moment?

Well, I won't pretend I'm a constitutional scholar, but I'm pretty sure I've seen a viable threat to the: 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, and 10th in the last 2 weeks alone... but that's a broad topic for a much larger debate...

Thank you for sharing your opinion. I absolutely understand your view of government involvement in the current situation. However, I believe that although they should not force us to uphold strict regulations as have been seen in other countries, regulations like stay-home and social distancing directives (even masks) are put into place for the good of the people and not just as a misuse of power. (I think someone earlier mentioned misuse of emergency powers?) If you feel that these regulations infringe on your inalienable and constitutional rights, you have every reason to not adhere to such guidelines, just stay conscious of the fact that the guidelines were placed to serve as a way to try to prevent the spread of this virus. Same as masks are not perfect and don't overall protect you from getting the virus, neither do social distancing guidelines, but at the moment we don't really have anything better. I try personally to adhere to the guidelines to serve what I see as the greater good.

This is where the rubber meets the road... are we talking saving the lives of 2,000,000 people, or 2,000... we don't know! Given what we don't know, is it better to give more power to the government so that it can protect you, or keep that power so you can protect yourself? This is also a very deep debate that predates this pandemic and will continue on long after it has passed...