KK 2.1 Problems

[Newtown]

I’m SoloPilot72013’s father who posted some initial general problems in the Ask Chad thread. Craft Dan suggested we post the problems here with more details. (Thanks for the direction.) We’ve been trying to put together the Bat Bone tri-copter from the Flite Test kit. We’ve flown various Hobbyzone planes and several FliteTest swappables. SoloPilot has flown several Blade helicopters and quadcopters. But, as I feared, we’ve run into some problems connecting the recommended KK2.1 board we purchased from Hobby King. (Electronics and soldering are NOT my strengths. I’m always amazed when I manage to get everything to work.)

USER GUIDE
We’ve been following the User Guide for the KK 2.1 Multi-Rotor Control Board that we downloaded from the Files tab for the board on the Hobby King site.
(1) Mounted board.
(2) Connected receiver outputs to board using “6” Male/Male Jumpers” we got from our LHS (which has been helpful but know little about multi-copters and nothing about KK 2.1 boards).
(3) Connected ESCs to the board as directed making sure to align negative lead properly. We opted to disconnect the red power wire from all but one of the ESCs and use the BEC from that one.
(4) Bound the Rx and Tx. We’re using my son’s Spektrum Dx9 transmitter (he saved up his snow shoveling money and bought it himself) and a Spektrum AR400 (4 channel) receiver.
(5) Powered on and went through the menus adjusting the stick movements and trim controls to match the readouts in the LCD screen. Since only 4 channel, was unable to check the AUX channel.
(6) Picked tri-copter from “Load Motor Layout” sub-menu.
(7) Looked at the “Show Motor Layout” sub-menu. At this point noticed that the screen indicated power should be coming from the front left ESC (as seen from behind the tri-copter) so had to rearrange the ESCs.

STUCK: Everything looked good but the instructions say “Correct rotation direction? Does the motor speed up when dropping the arm it is mounted on?” At this point the motors do not run or respond to inputs from the Tx controls. ????

QUESTION 1:
Could the problem be caused because we are only using a 4 channel Rx and, at this point, not concerned with turning on and off the self-leveling feature? Tonight or tomorrow we’ll probably try one of the inexpensive orange receivers I have from Hobby King and see if there is any difference

QUESTION 2:
For some of this setup we checked out the Hobby King video by Matt called “KK2.0 Complete Guide Pt.5 - X900 Tricopter” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC6Gz_qysxc). Not the exact FC or tricopter we have but gave us something to follow. He seems to be using the battery balance plug from the battery to power a completely separate BEC through the Voltage Monitor connection. Not necessary, right? This confused my son plus have no idea how to convert the four wire battery balance plug to the two Voltage Monitor connection.

QUESTION 3:
In the Hobby King video by Matt called “KK2.0 Complete Guide - Introduction and Part 1” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_j-d2a-iUM) he talks about updating the firmware with a USB asp firmware updating tool. Is this really necessary? While I can see the advantage of having the latest and greatest, at this point we just want to get the tri-copter to fly. I would order one but they are on Back Order and apparently only available from Hobby King’s International Warehouse so who knows how long it will take to arrive once I can order it.

In the “kk2.1 flight controller set up” thread below, FinalGlideAus says:
I have a Bat Bone with a KK2.1. I would recommend you flash the KK2.1 board with Steveis Firmware V1.12S1 beginner version and then just keep the settings standard. It flys great as is. Hold off fiddling until you know what you're doing. Fiddling will only get you into trouble. The factory Hobbyking Firmware is terrible. You will need an AVR flash tool to do this but they are cheap. CPO has a YouTube channel that shows how to do this.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_oXzVEdjuTE

Is this the tool both of them are talking about? (It’s the one I want to order but they are currently unavailable.)
“USBasp AVR Programming Device for ATMEL proccessors” PRODUCT ID: 381000147 at
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor..._for_ATMEL_proccessors.html?strSearch=usb asp

QUESTION 4 (more FYI than question):
Note that we did not connect the included buzzer to the Speaker/LED connectors. It was not mentioned in the instructions. Plus, we had seen something about the possibility of shorting things out if this was connected wrong and did not figure it was important at this time.

Attaching the pictures attached to my son's other posting.

 

[Craftydan]

Hey Newton (and Solo),

Lot of questions at once, but lets try to hit them one by one.

0) I know, not a question, but you'll run into this next if its not addressed. Good job on pulling the power line... But you may have pulled too many. For a *tricopter only* leave the power pins connected to the first 2 escs(M1 and M2) and disconnect the power on only M3. M1 powers the kk2 and ar400, and mw will power the tail servo.

After that, did you arm the motors? (hold left stick in bottom right corner - red led comes on and beeps. Disarm by holding the stick to the bottom left)

1) not really, especially if everything looks right in the reciever test. I use orange 615s all the time, but beyond picking up aux control, it should work.

2) this isn't required, but you do meed some way to monitor when the battery is empty - I'd recommend skipping this for now, but plan on revisiting this one soon.

3) for a quad, maybe not, but for a tri, sooner rather than later. Stock 2.1 is pretty bad for tris. Go ahjead and finish setup, but youll want to fix this before you fly for more than a quick hover check.

That recommended firmware is good for a beginner, and while that is the right tool, its a common tool among electroics hobbyists, so you should be able to find a local seller on ebay or Amazon, and get it faster than from HK. Make sure you pick one up with either the 6 pin cable or 8->6 pin adaptor. Once you have it in hand, Check out lazyzero's kk flashtool - good software that will download and flash many popular roms to many boards and escs.

4) the buzzer plugs into the pins on the front of the boars, and having an audible feedback is really handy. Tjs shorting issue is withthw pins for voltage monitoring, just below and to the left. As I said earlier, leave themalone for this moment, but revisit how the plug in soon.

I think thats all of them - as you hot individual roadblocks, we'll be happy to help get you past them

 

[adamd]

answer #1 can you get the board to "arm" by moving your throttle stick to the back right and holding it. auto level can be set by turning the setting in misc menu to 'stick', then you can turn the auto level on by moving both the sticks to back opposite corners.

 

[crlock]

Hi mate, i made this diagram of a power distribution for a tricopter hope it helps

 

[Newtown]

WOW! Thanks so much for all of the quick help and replies. We'll be trying these suggestions out this weekend.

(0) I'll swear someone who seemed knowledgeable told me to disconnect all but one. I don't think it will be difficult to reconnect the one wire.

No, we did not "arm the motors." Not familiar with that step. Will try that right away. Also somewhat concerned with various references to "flashing" the ESCs but not sure that's necessary, at least for now, so not going to save research on that until later.

(3) Found what seems to be the same device at http://9xrprogrammer.com/ which was mentioned in a Hobby King discussion thread for their USB asp adapter. Ordered the "deluxe" to make sure I have the correct pin connections.

Crafty Dan:
In my son's earlier posting you mentioned connecting the motors directly to the servo outlets on the receiver to check them out. That won't damage anything right. I'll probably use my inexpensive orange receiver for that, just to make sure.

Thanks again everyone for all of the help. Going to a giant indoor flying Monday where there might be some multi-rotor people there who can help too.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

In my son's earlier posting you mentioned connecting the motors directly to the servo outlets on the receiver to check them out. That won't damage anything right. I'll probably use my inexpensive orange receiver for that, just to make sure.

If you mean the ESCs control/BEC wiring, yes that's ok. That's pretty much all a plane's motor does.

 

[crlock]

the reflash of the escs, is to update the firmware, this is to improve their performance, not needed, but recommended if you want the absolute best performance out of your escs.

 

[Dumpster Jedi]

(0) I'll swear someone who seemed knowledgeable told me to disconnect all but one. I don't think it will be difficult to reconnect the one wire.

I've seen this recommended for quads (though not always necessary with the KK2-2.1), but it seems reasonable that the tri would need the M2 power to run the servo. So you did get good advice, for a quad... and until Dan responded I was unaware that the tri was different in that respect.

 

[xuzme720]

It's due to the servo being on that buss. The KK2 has a split power buss. M1, and all the inputs down the left side share power and also provide the KK2 with it's power. M2-M8 share a separate buss and since the servo still needs to be powered, leaving the ESC provided power to at least one of those M2-M8 will give you that power. It also means that if you need to, you can get really creative with your power options.

 

[William A]

(3) Found what seems to be the same device at http://9xrprogrammer.com/ which was mentioned in a Hobby King discussion thread for their USB asp adapter. Ordered the "deluxe" to make sure I have the correct pin connections.

I ordered mine from the same place but just the plain-jane model.

In fact it just came in mail this AM and have already gone thru the update process.

Not bad shipping time, ordered it on the 11th.

 

[Newtown]

Still, no luck. Still stuck at step 7 with no response from motors.

CONNECTIONS:
Note that our wiring does NOT match that recommended by Crlock. We reconnected the red wire from the M2 ESC. We left the red wire from the M3 ESC disconnected and covered with shrink wrap. The wires from the M1 ESC are connected to the M1 connectors on the KK2.1 board; M2 to M2, M3 to M3, and servo wires connected to M4 on the KK2.1 board. We then have male-to-male jumpers going from the Aileron, Elevator, Throttle, and Rudder outputs on the receiver to the matching “Control Inputs” on the KK2.1 board. (FYI: The label on the jumpers clearly says Mpi MAXX stock no. 3431 6” Male/Male Jumper w/AWG 22 HD Wires for Fut J/Hitec/JR; although they sure look female to me.)

ARMED MOTORS
We held the left control stick on the Tx in the lower right hand corner, plugged in the battery, the LCD on the KK2.1 board read “ARMED” and we heard a beep, then moved control stick to lower left and LCD went to “SAFE”, its normal reading. Tried moving left and right sticks on Tx and got no response from motors or servo. We did have some action from the servo a couple of times while working with the KK2.1 menus but then it reset to neutral position.

We tried connecting each of the ESCs with motors and the servo through the Rx and they all work. Used this opportunity to make sure they were moving in the correct direction per the Motor Layout diagram.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Mustang7302]

Do no try to arm the copter while you plug in the battery. Set the copter down on the ground, plug in the battery, and allow the start up beeps to do their thing (two or three seconds). Then you can arm the KK board by taking the left stick to the bottom right of its travel and waiting until the long beep. The board is now armed and you and give it just enough throttle to get the motors spinning. With the motors spinning, the servo will react to yaw input from the left stick and the motors will spin up some with input from the right stick. Disarm the KK board when done by putting the left stick in the lower left of its travel until a long tone is heard. Then you can approach the copter.

 

[Newtown]

Thanks. We did not realize that you fly it ARMED than disarm it for safety like a throttle hold. We were thinking that arming it was like setting up the throttle limits on the ESC, then you disarmed it before flying. Duh. Also had troubles for a few minutes because the M2 ESC kept beeping slowly and the motor wouldn't run. Finally, re-started and just made sure throttle (left) stick was zeroed and it seemed to work. Sort-of working now. Should be thrilled but more just relief that it's working.

Just checking it out in living room so only gave it enough power to verify that it could lift. Lot of slop in mount for M3 as motors rev up. Seems to just be a part of how its built. Tomorrow, President's Day, we'll be taking it to the Ultimate Soccer arena in Pontiac, MI for some indoor flying. There might be some multi-rotor pilots there who can help us start trimming it. We'll see how things go. I'll report back but thanks again to everyone who answered my "dumb" questions and encouraged us.

 

[Craftydan]

Good luck on the maiden -- Hope you can find someone who can dial it in for you. It'll make it a lot easier to learn on with the gains set to something it's happy with (you did re-flash the control board, right?)

Oh, and bring lots of zipties and props -- If you get a chance to fly any, you'll need 'em!

 

[maclover1234]

I am building the Ft H-quad. When i connected everything to the kk2.1 board the motors all spinned clockwise, when two of the motors should be turning counterclockwise. How do i get the motors to spin the correct way.

 

[Mustang7302]

I am building the Ft H-quad. When i connected everything to the kk2.1 board the motors all spinned clockwise, when two of the motors should be turning counterclockwise. How do i get the motors to spin the correct way.

The three wires from the ESC to the motor, swapping any two of the three wires with each other will reverse the spin of the motors you perform that action on. It doesn't matter which two of the three, there is no polarity to get backwards.

 

[Newtown]

Didn’t get the Bat Bone tri-copter up that weekend. Did not think about the fact that since one motor was to be clockwise, needed a clockwise (pusher) propeller. Did get to talk to someone who is familiar with the KK boards and got some advice on PI settings. Got the right propellers now and will have a little time this weekend.

Crafty Dan: What did you mean when you said “re-flash the control board”? Have no idea what you are talking about.

“It'll make it a lot easier to learn on with the gains set to something it's happy with.”
I assume you are talking about the PI gain values? The individual we talked to at the Ultimate Soccer arena talked about adjusting the PI values until the motors start twitching, then turning them back down, or something like that. I figured we just go through the settings as recommended by Hobby King User Guide for the KK2.1 Multi-Rotor Control Board and take it from there. Any recommendations for detailed instructions for tuning it? (I did get a name and email address but I figured we start by just playing with them ourselves.)

Have also received the USB asp I ordered so I can upgrade the firmware on the control board. I’m in no hurry to do that. Figure I’ll try to see what we can do with the board the way it is first. Does anyone want to recommend step-by-step instructions for upgrading the firmware? Have to admit, I'm the "follow the instructions" type rather than the "trial and error" type.

 

[FinalGlideAus]

Craftydan is talking about updating your KK2.1 firmware when says "re-flash control board". Watch this YouTube clip from CPO. It shows you step by step how to update (flash) your KK2.1 with your USBasp.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_oXzVEdjuTE

You're right that gains means P and I settings. Reflashing your KK2.1 with Steveis 1.12S1 beginner firmware should hopefully mean your bat bone will fly quite nicely without needing to adjust these right away. Mine flew great great on the default settings.

I'm sure you'll hit more roadblocks and frustrations along the way but keep pushing. It's very rewarding when it all works. Besides we're here to help if you get stuck.

 

[Newtown]

Update: Got the BatBone tri-copter going with the stock KK2.1 but not surprisingly, it was extremely squirrely. Had to adjust some of the transmitter settings because several of the controls were backward. Then, kept rotating (yaw) one way or another and was too sensitive to be able to control.

So, again not surprisingly, we decided to go ahead and upgrade the firmware on the KK2.1 control board (re-flash the control board). Unfortunately at this point, we ran into computer problems. Turns out the first computer we had did not have the correct version of Java (32 bit on a 64 bit machine). We’re looking into correcting this problem but decided to try another computer we had available. Unfortunately the second computer had Windows 8 on it and we had trouble getting it to accept the device drivers for the USBasp. The error message stated that the digital signature did not match so we could not install the device driver.

We’ll do a little more research on these problems and/or try another computer that is available. Expect this to take a week or more but will eventually post our success or additional questions. Again, want to thank everyone for their help and encouragement. Could not have made it this far without you.

 

[DDSFlyer]

Stoopid Windows 8! You can try and run the KKflash tool in 32bit. Works just fine on my laptop.