My First Diesel Run

PeterGregory

CrossThread Industries
My model aircraft involvement had a big break from way back as I entered college til last year, 2014. There was a couple of blips of activity but I had a lot of other interests and didn't stick with it, or join a club, etc.

I wasn't aware pretty much at all of diesel engines back then. With the internet age comes a lot of information and I was intrigued by these diesels. My interest was partly from the phenomenon that I completely missed out on their existence til just a while ago. And, they represent a lot of great heritage of our hobby/sport/obsession.

I acquired quite a few diesels over the last year, but never ran them.
Unlike glow engines which run on essentially alcohol with some oil and some kicker (nitro), the diesels run on a mix of kerosene, oil, and ether. We used to use ether to kick a balky automobile engine into life, back when engines had carburetors and not fuel injection. The sweet smell of ether is very memorable.

Anyway, I got a deal on a nice balsa kit plus three PAW diesel engines. There is a quite a following around the world of PAWs and other diesels. Over the last year I had bought premixed fuel, but also the components of kerosene, castor oil, and ether to mix my own. You can make some adjustments to the mixture for different reasons, for example, temperature.

Well, this little entry is to share with you my first experiences with running the diesel. I essentially figured out the basics to starting my little PAW .061 CL/FF engine, today, which was a big psyche. You have to balance the compression with the fuel you are delivering via the needle valve. On a glow engine, you attach a glow igniter that heats the glow head. If you have the mixture correct the glow engine will catch and start running, you remove the glow igniter, and the combustion process keeps the glow head coil red hot. On the diesel, the compression, itself, ignites the fuel mixture. There is a screw on the top of the engine head that you use to adjust compression.

The intriguing thing about model diesel engines is that you don't hook up an spark or glow power source. The fuel mixture has a lower detonation temperature than glow or gas engines. It is actually the ether that burns first, igniting the kerosene. The castor oil keeps everything smooth and juicy. Very juicy, ha!

Anyway, below is a pic of my engine test setup I used. For $50, a used-on-craigslist Black and Decker Workmate is essential to ease of testing and fast setup and break-down times.

I have a fancy engine test stand I will talk about sometime, but I didn't have to use it for this run-up.
I screwed the engine to a piece of scrap model aircraft plywood, and that to a scrap piece of 2x6.
In turn, the 2x6 is clamped in the workmate. All this took about 45 minutes.

I'll leave you with the pic and take some video next time I fire the PAW .061 up.
I have many other engines to test, so I will post about them, as well.

Again, as I mentioned, this was a pretty cool occasion of taking what I have read on the internet and figuring out how to run one of these little guys.

Cheers y'all - Blue Skies

Poughkeepsie Peter

PAW 061 First Day Ever Running Diesel.jpg
 
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pgerts

Old age member
Mentor
Interesting!
What is the composition of your fuel?
Old PAWs, Frog and other normally use 1/3 of each byt "modern" engines like S.T. run a lot better on 22 33 44 plus a dash of DII.
I got some old S.T. 31 and 32 nib with manuals, but i dont want them so i traded them (to museum) for an Irvine 20 RC with muffler.

Also - what fuel line do you use? Normal tube for glow fuel get slippery and dont last when using "diesel".
 

MrClean

Well-known member
Ahh the smell of either. That alone makes diesel funner. I had always read about how much diesel stank. "You'll never get the smell out of your clothes" and such.
Bull, it smells like any other diesel motor and at the time I started working with my first diesel motor I kept sniffing for "the smell" till I released it was normal diesel exhaust AND as I was working on the golf course with diesel mowers, it didn't smell funny at all.

In a world where electric is more and more normal, IC engines and the lovely smells of their exhaust are slipping away from us. Synthetic oiled fuel smells like aftershave, Castor smells like, well, Castor or Heaven whichever you like.

Electrics smell like the dead bugs that line your leading edge.
 

PeterGregory

CrossThread Industries
Video or it didn't happen.....


Really, I just want to see it run. The diesels intrigue me!

I will get video today - glad to see a bunch of you respond to my posting - didn't know if anybody was listening- ha!
Yes, the diesels are really neat - no need for battery to start engine. So, somewhat like magneto-ignition engines, which I have one I have never started. A Zenoah G38 I bought in the late 80's for a monster kit I bought at a swap meet.

Interesting!
What is the composition of your fuel?
Old PAWs, Frog and other normally use 1/3 of each byt "modern" engines like S.T. run a lot better on 22 33 44 plus a dash of DII.
I got some old S.T. 31 and 32 nib with manuals, but i dont want them so i traded them (to museum) for an Irvine 20 RC with muffler.

Also - what fuel line do you use? Normal tube for glow fuel get slippery and dont last when using "diesel".

That is Davis Diesel fuel in the pic. They don't specify what their formula is, nor does Dr. Diesel. I did buy the raw materials to mix my own, but the little .061 did fine on the mix shown in the photo, even though that mix is for engines > .10 ci. Through reading online, I don't think there is much difference in that mix shown and the mix they sell for engines < .10 ci. I'll shoot a pic of my ingredients if it helps anyone else figure out how to mix their own. It did take me a while to put them together - finding sources for the ether, for instance.

Fuel tubing should be the yellow Tygon tubing that works for gasoline. The kerosene or ether eats away a lot of rubber, including the gasket material in the syringes I use for glow fuel. If you only use regular tubing temporarily, there doesn't seem to be immediate breakdown, only if the fuel stays in contact for a long time like 6-12-18 hours.

MrClean said:
Ahh the smell of either. That alone makes diesel funner. I had always read about how much diesel stank. "You'll never get the smell out of your clothes" and such.
Bull, it smells like any other diesel motor and at the time I started working with my first diesel motor I kept sniffing for "the smell" till I released it was normal diesel exhaust AND as I was working on the golf course with diesel mowers, it didn't smell funny at all.

In a world where electric is more and more normal, IC engines and the lovely smells of their exhaust are slipping away from us. Synthetic oiled fuel smells like aftershave, Castor smells like, well, Castor or Heaven whichever you like.

Electrics smell like the dead bugs that line your leading edge.

MrClean - I love the slobberiness of fuel engines and the smell of this diesel. These diesels are nice and juicy, seems you want them pretty "we" to get started. Yeah, compared to glow this diesel does embed itself deeply in your hands and clothes - you are "committed" if you are flying these. You and the engine/plane deserve a real washdown afterwards. Electrics are quite dainty, compared. (I wouldn't be on FT if I didn't think they are great, of course). A lot of people bemoan the fact you have to clean up a mess after fuel engines, but to me it is a bit of a ritual. You stay close to your airplane that way. You are effectively doing a close inspection as you clean up and can catch a lot of little bugs that could turn into real problems. Keep a screwdriver, etc. handy while cleaning up, you'll see things.

It's all good:cool:

Cheers,
Poughkeepsie Pete
 

PeterGregory

CrossThread Industries
I captured some video today. Here is a PAW .061 CL (no carb/throttle) startup.

Two minor issues with this engine.
One, the contra-piston is not easing up, i.e. reducing compression, after the engine starts and I rotate the Tommy bar out. The contra-piston should follow the Tommy bar, but doesn't.
Second, the needle valve is really really tight. I am concerned about my castor laden fingers slipping off the NV and going into the spinning prop - ouch, if not yuk.

Anyway, there you have it. I will also post the RC version I ran for the first time today. Wild excitement.

Cheers, Poughkeepsie Pete

 

PeterGregory

CrossThread Industries
Here's a vid of the actual first start of the RC version of the P.A.W. .061.
What you see is a restart of the vid after I tuckered myself out trying to start while the carb NV was set quite a bit too rich.
What you get when it is too rich is a hard kickback from the prop - you can feel an abrupt kick as you are spinning the prop.
You also see a lot of fuel spitting out of the cylinder when you flip the prop.
The needle setting was quite a bit different than the CL version. I had started with the needle set about where it was correct for the CL engine and everything (in hindsight) was really too juicy.

This engine behaved better in that the NV is easier to turn and the contra-piston tracked the Tommy bar when I was adjusting it while it was running.

Ok, loads of fun for the day - more to come. I have a Czech MVVS 2cc Junior on the bench, to start.

Cheers All,
Peter

http://youtu.be/niQ1GwyZJYM
 

PeterGregory

CrossThread Industries
Ha! If there were only a scratch-n-sniff button I could insert in my post...

Update - Here's vid of actually starting an engine for the first time since acquiring it. This is the RC (carb, throttle) version of the .061.

 
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