New guy, old guy

[Mastershake44]

Hi y’all I’m new to rc flight but old in the tooth.
I just got a Wltoys kx a220 mini p40 mustang. I flew it at a baseball field on moody afb and found out I am great at crashing, thank goodness this little plane has a break away prop and is built like a tank. I am trying to learn to fly on this little guy befor I try my park foam board planes I have built. I have 3 or 4 without electronics, I need to find a bigger field to fly these.
I am having problems coordinating my pitch and yaw. I play a lot of Xbox and I think it is confusing me.
I an a disabled veteran with a lot of hobby time now so expect a post now and then. Thank you in advance for any advice!

 

[Foamforce]

When you say that you’re having trouble coordinating your pitch and yaw, are you referring to coordinated turns (which is coordinating room with yaw) or are tot talking more generally about forgetting which way is up or whether to turn left or right?

If it’s the former, the good news is that coordinated turns aren’t generally necessary for basic flight. All of the Flite Test planes I’ve flown will fly just fine without any rudder input. Adding rudder gives you nicer looking turns, gives you better landings, etc, but isn’t strictly necessary.

If it’s the latter, the best advice I have is to either play in a simulator until it’s natural, or keep flying your P40 until you’re completely confident with it. Those little warbirds are great learning planes because they are so hard to wreck.

When practicing, get much higher. Most learners stay close to the ground because it feels safer. But when you make a mistake, you immediately crash. If you get high up, then you have time to correct your mistakes. Then you stay in the air longer and start to build that muscle memory.

To feel comfortable getting way up high, find a bigger field. A baseball field isn’t big enough. The bigger the better, then you’ll feel comfortable getting way up high. Also, when you do that, try to keep the sun at your back. There are lots of crashes caused by flying into the sun and losing sight of the plane.

Good luck!

 

[Piotrsko]

Different direction: if you arent crashing severely, finesse controlling is a muscle memory thing, takes a while learning. Might turn expo down a bit which will allow you to overcome the Xbox controller sloppy response you're trained to..... if nobody's complaining how you currently fly, and you can immediately fly more without a major rebuild, you'd be doing a dang sight better that the majority. See above regarding field size.

Btw, the best landings happen "hands off"

 

[Merv]

...I am trying to learn to fly on this little guy before try my park foam board planes I have built...

Bigger planes are easier to fly, easier to see, less effected by the wind.
A hobby grade transmitter is MUCH better than the toy grade Tx that comes with those planes.
Remember the FT moto: Build, Fly, Crash, Repeat

 

[Mastershake44]

When you say that you’re having trouble coordinating your pitch and yaw, are you referring to coordinated turns (which is coordinating room with yaw) or are tot talking more generally about forgetting which way is up or whether to turn left or right?

If it’s the former, the good news is that coordinated turns aren’t generally necessary for basic flight. All of the Flite Test planes I’ve flown will fly just fine without any rudder input. Adding rudder gives you nicer looking turns, gives you better landings, etc, but isn’t strictly necessary.

If it’s the latter, the best advice I have is to either play in a simulator until it’s natural, or keep flying your P40 until you’re completely confident with it. Those little warbirds are great learning planes because they are so hard to wreck.

When practicing, get much higher. Most learners stay close to the ground because it feels safer. But when you make a mistake, you immediately crash. If you get high up, then you have time to correct your mistakes. Then you stay in the air longer and start to build that muscle memory.

To feel comfortable getting way up high, find a bigger field. A baseball field isn’t big enough. The bigger the better, then you’ll feel comfortable getting way up high. Also, when you do that, try to keep the sun at your back. There are lots of crashes caused by flying into the sun and losing sight of the plane.

Good luck!

Thanks for the tips, they all make sense. I will find a bigger field to get some heigh in my flight, thank you!

 

[Mastershake44]

Bigger planes are easier to fly, easier to see, less effected by the wind.
A hobby grade transmitter is MUCH better than the toy grade Tx that comes with those planes.
Remember the FT moto: Build, Fly, Crash, Repeat

 

[Mastershake44]

I guess I will start putting the electronics in my park foamies and find a larger field. It makes sense what you said about bigger being easier, thank you!

 

[quorneng]

Mastershake44
I must say the type of plane you have started with is about the most difficult type particularly for an "older" guy.
Whilst such a plane is not a toy as such they appeal to the younger generation who have a natural speed of reflex and a rate of coordination learning you wouldn't believe!
As Merv points out bigger planes of the right type react more slowly so you as the pilot have a bit more time to react and then react again when the initial input proved to be not quite right!
It is a natural reaction is to think flying high adds to the difficulty whereas the exact opposite is true. Not for nothing is the moto "Keep 3 mistakes high".

Think of a powered glider type rather than a WWII fighter. It may not look as "cool" but believe me it is much easier to learn to fly on.
This video shows the sort of thing. Note it was kept low for the benefit of the camera.

A 60" span "pusher". It has never it has never broken its prop!
Light, slow and naturally stable with relatively small control surfaces means it reacts gently to even large control inputs.

 

[Mastershake44]

Mastershake44
I must say the type of plane you have started with is about the most difficult type particularly for an "older" guy.
Whilst such a plane is not a toy as such they appeal to the younger generation who have a natural speed of reflex and a rate of coordination learning you wouldn't believe!
As Merv points out bigger planes of the right type react more slowly so you as the pilot have a bit more time to react and then react again when the initial input proved to be not quite right!
It is a natural reaction is to think flying high adds to the difficulty whereas the exact opposite is true. Not for nothing is the moto "Keep 3 mistakes high".

Think of a powered glider type rather than a WWII fighter. It may not look as "cool" but believe me it is much easier to learn to fly on.
This video shows the sort of thing. Note it was kept low for the benefit of the camera.

A 60" span "pusher". It has never it has never broken its prop!
Light, slow and naturally stable with relatively small control surfaces means it reacts gently to even large control inputs.

I have a low expo rate and a high expo rate on the little plane. Your saying the low expo (less throw) setting is better for newbs like me? I feel like it’s getting away from me because it reacts so slowly. This acft is very small I’m flying I thought the high expo rate would be better to “keep control” of the little guy.
i‘ll try the low expo rate next time I go out and see how I do.
thank you everyone for your replies!

 

[Mastershake44]

I have another question, are yank and bank foamies easier to fly than this little plane with all the control surfaces? Or do I just have to develope the muscle memory to react to the acft with all the surfaces and what it is doing in flight. I hope this question comes across like I want it to and isn’t overly confusing.

 

[Piotrsko]

Heard of KISS principal? In other words, would you driver train a 16 year old in a maseratti? Could be done, the kid if he survived would drive incredibly, but expensive as heck and not really practical.

If implemented correctly, more expo deadens control sensitivity around the center stick movements but still allows maximum movement at a maximum stick input. Makes a less twitchy flight or deadens response from an aerobatic plane. Newbies tend to over control.

More aircraft functions means more skills that have to be developed and experience to determine which thing you need to use. Bank and yank means you only use 2 1/2 skills: turn, up& down, motor ( if you have one, motor isn't hard to learn quickly). But you can cross control rudder and aileron so the plane flies sideways and drops like a rock which no amount of motor power or up elevator will fix. Flaps can cause a plane to have so much drag it can't fly (tis why they are there)

Trainers are trainers because they respond slowly to normal inputs, tend to correct input mistakes by being self stable and capable of flying on their own given enough altitude.

 

[Bricks]

I have a low expo rate and a high expo rate on the little plane. Your saying the low expo (less throw) setting is better for newbs like me? I feel like it’s getting away from me because it reacts so slowly. This acft is very small I’m flying I thought the high expo rate would be better to “keep control” of the little guy.
i‘ll try the low expo rate next time I go out and see how I do.
thank you everyone for your replies!

You are confusing Expo and Rates, rates is how far the flight surface moves and expo is how far you need to move the transmitter stick to get the response you want both are adjustable. Normally rates are put onto a switch to control the rates mode, which the same switch can control Expo. I set up high rates ( max throw ) as my rates go up I want more Expo ( softness around center stick so the plane does not feel twitchy ).

 

[quorneng]

Mastershake44
You are quite right about learning the required muscle memory to speed up the eye/hand response.
As I said a bigger plane reacts more slowly giving you time to make an appropriate and sufficient control correction. Until the muscle memory is well developed you are likely to make any correction rather late by which time it needs a bigger input to achieve the required result. There is every chance a similarly big counter input will then be required. It is called over correction.
A small input make quickly enough can make the plane fly smoothly and under perfect control. This is of course the benefit of a 'rate' gyro system. A gyro can detect a change in attitude far quicker than a human can on the ground so it only needs to make a tiny control input even in difficult turbulent conditions so the plane still flies smoothly.
Expo just reduces the sensitivity of the stick around the centre position but does not limit the full control surface travel. For many humans controlling the degree of the initial muscle reaction can be an issue.