Problems launching Versa Wing

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
I ended up programing a toggle switch with 10% uptrim for a "launch mode" now my wings climb out on their own....when Im ready I flip that Launch toggle switch to stop it climbing and I fly it..........no more wing problems.

I tried that and had a wing take off and almost immediately want to go into a loop back towards me. Apparently, I'd had a little too much on my adjustment for the first launch, and my natural throw at an upward angle to keep the prop away from me made it worse. Does that mean it won't work for someone else? Certainly not - I would recommend you try it. :) As it is, most discus launch gliders operate in the same manner of launch, so having an upward deflection on a switch isn't unheard of.

But, be ready to hit the switch (or release it if you set it up on a momentary switch) to turn it off ASAP, just in case it's a little more than you need for launch, or else you might find your wing coming back at you like I have. :)

@Aireal Anarchist - out of curiosity, how do you have yours set? Momentary, or a two-way switch? I can't do the momentary unless I do a right hand launch, because the momentary switch is on the left side of my transmitter, and I don't feel like I have control of the plane if I launch with my right hand, since I fly Mode 2.
 

Bricks

Master member
When I launch my wings I do a Frisbee type throw transmitter in my left hand on my neck strap hit throttle half turn with my body swing my arm with my body and it`s off.
 

Aireal Anarchist

Elite member
I tried that and had a wing take off and almost immediately want to go into a loop back towards me. Apparently, I'd had a little too much on my adjustment for the first launch, and my natural throw at an upward angle to keep the prop away from me made it worse. Does that mean it won't work for someone else? Certainly not - I would recommend you try it. :) As it is, most discus launch gliders operate in the same manner of launch, so having an upward deflection on a switch isn't unheard of.

But, be ready to hit the switch (or release it if you set it up on a momentary switch) to turn it off ASAP, just in case it's a little more than you need for launch, or else you might find your wing coming back at you like I have. :)

@Aireal Anarchist - out of curiosity, how do you have yours set? Momentary, or a two-way switch? I can't do the momentary unless I do a right hand launch, because the momentary switch is on the left side of my transmitter, and I don't feel like I have control of the plane if I launch with my right hand, since I fly Mode 2.
I had it on a rotary switch so I could dial in the correct amount, but once I found the perfect amount of uptrim I set it on a 2 position toggle so I could turn off launch mode easier....it requires very little uptrim for a steady climb out when you get it right there is no panic just a slow steady climb....Ill never go back to discus throwing wings
here is a video I made from the lockdown days when I started building wings
 
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PaulDuffy

New member
Hi all
First, I want to say "Thanks!" to everyone for their posts. You made some very good points that helped me sort this all out and make progress.

I had some success this past week. I added the washers as I previously mentioned - two #4 washers under the lower motor mounts. I also dialed in some up trim for launching, and when I launched, I threw it harder with the motor running full out. I think that was the key - so that the wing was not on the verge of stalling as it left my hand. This time, it took off and was flying, but I had dialed in too much up trim for launching and it wanted to keep climbing/looping. Anyway, I tried to reduce the throttle a bit and get it leveled out, but I managed to stall it and put it into a spin that ended in the trees at the edge of our field. It took me a little while to get it out of the tree.....but it will fly again. Next step is to reduce the amount of up trim and remove one washer from the lower motor mounts. I hope to try it again this weekend. In the mean time, I have put together an FT-22 just for fun. More to follow.
 

Piotrsko

Master member
Leave the motor washers for now, remove some up trim. The motor tilt will help with the launch at no effect to flying. Stalling/mushing indicates too much nose up for airspeed you have
 

Bricks

Master member
Instead of just adding up trim for launch if you can put it on a switch so once launched hit the switch and back to normal trim.
 

Merv

Site Moderator
Staff member
I agree with @Piotrsko, leave the thrust angle alone for now.

Trim the plane to fly straight and level at full throttle. Then fly several hundred feet high, cut the throttle and put the plane into a straight down dive. If the plane pulls out of the dive right side up, you need more down thrust. If it pulls out belly up, you need up thrust.

Why it works, flying straight & level at full throttle, you are trimming out any errors. When the plane is in a dive, you have removed the thrust angle error and yet are maintaining speed. The way the plane pulls out of a dive it reveals the error.

How quickly the plane pulls out will give you an idea of how much thrust is needed. If it pulls out in 25 feet or less, 4 degrees of thrust: 50 feet, 2 to 3 degrees: 75 feet, 1 to 2 degrees.

When you change the thrust angle, you will need to change the trim and repeat the process. The goal, have the plane dive 150 feet, more or less straight down.
 
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Bricks

Master member
You can do the same thing under power but you take it straight up and see which way it pulls then add corrections to thrust angle.
 

danskis

Master member
You might also have someone standing next to you that can put in some down trim while your flying.....or do it yourself by becoming familiar with the trim buttons and trimming the plane while flying (at altitude with reduced throttle)

You'll love the F22. Launch is almost vertical with 80 - 90% power.
 

danskis

Master member
Down the rabbit hole.....@Bricks @Merv .....Your gonna have to explain this to me. This is a flying wing with reflex in the elevons. The faster you go the more effective the elevons are. I'm seeing this as a balance between air speed and thrust angle at one speed (your pick) for every other speed your going to have trim it with the stick. I don't think he wants to be flying around at full speed all the time.
 

Merv

Site Moderator
Staff member
I'm seeing this as a balance between air speed and thrust angle
The balance is between thrust angle and reflex or trim. When you change the thrust angle, you will need to retrim the plane to fly straight and level. When you get the balance correct it will fly well at any speed.

When you get close to the right balance, that is, the plane will dive straight down for 150. I fine tune the plane with a throttle to elevator mix. Once you get it dialed in, it will fly level at any speed.

Flying wings are a bit more difficult to get dialed in.
 

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
Down the rabbit hole.....@Bricks @Merv .....Your gonna have to explain this to me. This is a flying wing with reflex in the elevons. The faster you go the more effective the elevons are. I'm seeing this as a balance between air speed and thrust angle at one speed (your pick) for every other speed your going to have trim it with the stick. I don't think he wants to be flying around at full speed all the time.

That's one reason why I have different rates/expo put onto a switch for my wing. Launch/Low rates, I run 45% for my Dual Rates on both Aileron and Elevator, 30% on expo, 65% Dual Rates and 30% expo for Mid, and 90% Dual Rates and 30% Expo for High. I really only use high rates for combat with the wings; it's REALLY touchy when I'm trying to fly level at full throttle (as well it should be!)

The higher rates are great for getting that snap roll or flip to nail someone else/slice someone's streamers, but if I'm doing low altitude speed runs or spot landings, you can bet I'm running it on mid rates. It's just too touchy otherwise, unless I'm flying on the edge of a low speed stall.
 

Capt Kevin

New member
What sprzout said. Linkage stoppers are good and so is subtrim.....both have their advantages. I second having someone else launch it - it increases your survival rate especially if they know how to launch. If they don't its probably not any worse than you launching it yourself. You can also rig up a bungee launcher - they work great.

idea

Great idea but it's hard to find a sled down here in Florida...
 

Capt Kevin

New member
I have built about 7-8 Versa Wings, and every one of them has been in a pusher configuration. They are a little tricky to launch them if you've never launched them before. If it's never been trimmed out, my first suggestion is to grab someone else who can throw it into the air for you so you can keep both hands on the controls for the first time.

Before launch, make sure that your Versa Wing is balanced on the balance points. When I make my planes, I will take a skewer or my linkage rod and push it through the foam to mark that balance point from the plans. If you're using a small diameter linkage rod, take your cutting blade and put the tip of it in the hole and twist it around a little. The purpose of this is to make it so you can easily feel that hole from underneath the wing. You don't need a giant, gaping hole in the wing, just something big enough so that you've got a nub there. Something maybe 1/16"-1/8" in diameter.

With those holes, you should have your battery that you're going to fly with in the plane. If the wing doesn't balance out (i.e., it's too tail heavy in a pusher configuration) YOU NEED TO ADD NOSE WEIGHT. I will usually take my glue gun and squirt a healthy amount of hot glue into the very tip of the nose, with the battery out. This adds weight, and it seems to help make my nose a little more durable from the inevitable nose dive/crash/skid on the runway when we're doing our "horseshoes" game during our Trifecta sessions. :) Other guys in my club have glued in some pennies, and still others have put the lead weights and tungsten nose weights in to keep the plane balanced. Whatever you do, MAKE SURE THAT WING IS BALANCED BEFORE YOU LAUNCH IT!!! Pusher configuration wings are finicky with being tail heavy, and if it IS tail heavy, forget trying to control that sucker easily - it'll act like a whale breaching throughout your entire flight.

I saw some people suggesting that you use your sub-trim to get the elevons to sit up a bit. While that works, and it's certainly not wrong to do it, I personally find it takes out some of the throw that I may need for quicker response, especially when I'm flying in combat. To remedy that, I will instead run a linkage stopper through the hole of the control horn. Then, I can put it flat on a table, and adjust it so each side is sitting up evenly, using the linkage stopper to lock it in place instead of adjusting out through the sub-trim. One warning, because I have done this myself several times - If you are using the linkage stoppers, MAKE SURE YOU TIGHTEN THEM DOWN SO THEY DON'T SLIP!!! I have launched with one being loose, only to have the wing spiral into the ground, or get up in the air for a launch and then have it slip to thud into the ground in a heap because I didn't tighten it down. Easiest way to test that is to get it tight, then plug in your battery and check the elevons that they're moving up and down in the correct directions. If they are, you'll not only have made sure it's good, but you'll have gotten some of your pre-flight check out of the way!

Another thing I do with mine is I set up rates on a 3 way switch and run 50% Dual Rates/30% Expo on AIL/ELE on position 1, 65% Dual Rates/30% Expo on AIL/ELE on position 2, and 80% Dual Rates/30% Expo on AIL/ELE on position 3. Now, that's for what *I* fly at for my combat Versa Wings; you may find you want something more like 50-60-70% for low, med. and hi rates. The reason I do this is so that, on takeoff, I can put it to a higher rate for the initial launch, and give some up elevator when I launch it.

I'll usually set it for my Mid rate for launch, put throttle to 100%, and give it kind of a "backhand tennis" throw with my left hand - if you can imagine swinging a tennis racket to hit a tennis ball, it's a lot like that. You don't want to snap your wrist, just keep it in a short toss, maybe moving your arm about 45 degrees out from your body, and going up and out. You're not launching it at a hard angle up into the air, just trying to get the nose of the wing to go up at maybe a 30-45 degree angle from the ground when you throw it.

I do it this way so that I can have my right hand on the right stick, working the aileron and elevator, and so I know where that prop is at all times, so it can't cut me. I do the 100% throttle until it's up in the air at least 40-50 ft up, and then start leveling it off to trim it out and adjust it. You may find that launching at mid- rates is giving you too much play on the launch, and may want to go down to low, which is perfectly fine - do what works best for you.

Now, If I find that my plane is nosing down from that throw, and I'm pulling up on the stick and it's not climbing immediately and gliding down, I'll cut the throttle and try to just let it pancake onto the ground without too much damage. Odds are, I need to put in a little more up elevator (which, if you used the linkage stoppers, you can adjust it easily rather than having to run your trim to the full end of the spectrum!) for it, so that it'll fly nicely and I can get it trimmed out appropriately for normal flight.

This is my process for my Versa Wings, and it's been fairly successful! I've only had a few that have gone wonky on flying, and it's usually because i have something loose, or a wing that's pretty well damaged. It's the process that's worked for me specifically, and hopefully there's some good tips there that will help you be successful in getting your wing launched. :)
I

Thank you for the excellent advice!
I'm building my first versa and I'm making it a pusher. I'm thinking of gluing some weight into the nose before I glue it together. I'm using a 1.5 oz motor and a 3s 850mah battery. Would one ounce be safe?
 

Capt Kevin

New member
Haha no sled! 2x4 works well. You absolutely can't guess on the CG. It's got to be spot on.
I'm just thinking that before I glue the wing haves together, it sounds like everyone is having to add nose weight, so I would just start out with an ounce of internal weight.
 

JasonK

Participation Award Recipient
if more nose weight is needed, I would prefer just putting in a bigger battery myself instead of 'dead' weight. something to think about.
 

Bricks

Master member
if more nose weight is needed, I would prefer just putting in a bigger battery myself instead of 'dead' weight. something to think about.


Some times it takes more then just a bigger battery especially the Blunt Nose Versa even moving the motor deeper into the wing.
 

TheFlyingBrit

Legendary member
Hi all - I am having problems launching my Versa Wing. It wants to dive into the ground as soon as I release it. I built the pusher configuration. I have double checked the balance point and control throws. On the last launch, I applied up elevator before it hit the ground and it did not seem to respond to the controls. I had the motor running at ~70% power - it felt like it wanted to fly out of my hand. I am inclined to put washers under the lower motor mount screws in order to apply a downward thrust angle on the rear of the wing, thus pushing the nose up. Any thoughts? Thanks.....
I found 1 cm deflection works for the reflex: not enough reflex it dives, too much it loops.
obviously that assumes you have the correct CG.