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Propellers and Motors and Wind, Oh my!

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
#1
My son and I were out flying the Simple Scout in some pretty good wind the other day. More wind than it could really handle, to be honest, but man did we have a blast trying!

I finally lost the wind/plane battle partly due to my own lack of skill, but mostly do to the fact the Scout didn't have enough power to come back against the wind.

You can see it here at the end of the video, the last 20 seconds or so:


So, I'm exploring ways of overcoming that difficulty. The Simple Scout has a 2212, 2200KV motor with a 30 amp esc, 10x4.5 "slow flyer" prop and a 3s 2200mAh batt. It's basically a "C" Pack. @mayan suggested using a 9x7 prop and while I was shopping around I saw three bladed props. I hadn't thought of that. Nor do I know the ramifications of using one. There must be some because nearly every build I've seen is a two blade.

So I thought I'd throw the question out here and let ya'll have some fun with it: How would you suggest making the Simple Scout battle the wind better, without changing the airframe? Just drivetrain changes. Or do you think we'd just reached the limit of the wind that airframe can handle?
 

FastCrash45

Well-known member
#2
My son and I were out flying the Simple Scout in some pretty good wind the other day. More wind than it could really handle, to be honest, but man did we have a blast trying!

I finally lost the wind/plane battle partly due to my own lack of skill, but mostly do to the fact the Scout didn't have enough power to come back against the wind.

You can see it here at the end of the video, the last 20 seconds or so:


So, I'm exploring ways of overcoming that difficulty. The Simple Scout has a 2212, 2200KV motor with a 30 amp esc, 10x4.5 "slow flyer" prop and a 3s 2200mAh batt. It's basically a "C" Pack. @mayan suggested using a 9x7 prop and while I was shopping around I saw three bladed props. I hadn't thought of that. Nor do I know the ramifications of using one. There must be some because nearly every build I've seen is a two blade.

So I thought I'd throw the question out here and let ya'll have some fun with it: How would you suggest making the Simple Scout battle the wind better, without changing the airframe? Just drivetrain changes. Or do you think we'd just reached the limit of the wind that airframe can handle?
The 3 blade would pull your motor down more so I wouldn't suggest that. A 9in with more pitch would be better how much pitch I can't say. You'd probably be further a head to swap out the motor for like a 1400kv or 1000kv and swing a steeper pitch like a 10x6 or 10x8. That would get you more oomph in the wind but keep an eye on the esc. Could get close or slightly above the rating with those props. JUST my pennies worth.
 

kilroy07

Well-known member
#4
Or... You could just not fly in 20mph winds!... :p

Tri (and 4 blade) props are less efficient than 2 bladed... You find them on high power setups where prop clearance is an issue.
(Personally I just think they are cool... and there's just something WRONG about a P-51 with a 2 bladed prop...)

One tip (seriously) is to fly up wind from yourself that way when the battery does start to give, the wind will help get you home.

Those are pretty cheap motors, start hanging bitey props on them and you will start taxing the ESC....
Pretty sure I mentioned "scale" flying and not 3D... ;)

Weatherman "Look for winds 10-15 with gusts up to 25"....
@buzzbomb "Let's go FLYING!"... :ROFLMAO:
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
#5
Or... You could just not fly in 20mph winds!... :p

Tri (and 4 blade) props are less efficient than 2 bladed... You find them on high power setups where prop clearance is an issue.
(Personally I just think they are cool... and there's just something WRONG about a P-51 with a 2 bladed prop...)

One tip (seriously) is to fly up wind from yourself that way when the battery does start to give, the wind will help get you home.

Those are pretty cheap motors, start hanging bitey props on them and you will start taxing the ESC....
Pretty sure I mentioned "scale" flying and not 3D... ;)

Weatherman "Look for winds 10-15 with gusts up to 25"....
@buzzbomb "Let's go FLYING!"... :ROFLMAO:
OK. I laughed! :LOL::ROFLMAO: We'd been trying to get out there for a week and we were either going or I had to discharge my batteries, which takes me days, and then recharge them, which takes me days. So I said "let's go for it!" I broke some foamboard, but man did we have a good time doing it! She'll live to fly again. :)

Gotcha about the number of prop blades. Flying upwind was just NOT going to happen by the time of that final flight. The wind had picked up pretty good. It was just beyond my current skill level to keep her upwind. That and the intent was to duplicate my son's landing. The bird just sort of got stuck at the end of our runway and couldn't power herself back.

I didn't think about the inexpensive motors taxing the esc. I'm glad I didn't just slap a on different prop and give it a whirl. You may have just kept the magic smoke on the INSIDE of the esc, where it belongs! I took what @FastCrash45 wrote and I'm shopping around for some 1400kv 2212s. Seems like a compromise between my 2200kv and 1000kv.

I don't plan on this being the go-to setup for my Simple Scout, just yet. I'd like to take one mounted on a pod to the flying field with me in case the wind gets stupid, and I get more stupid and want to keep on flying. Which I will. ;)
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#9
I am not sure of what you are looking to do but the Quick Trick I built and maidened recently used a 2200kV motor running on 3S and I was getting over 80MPH from a plane with similar wing span and slightly less weight!

Initially I used a 6 x 4.5 2 bladed prop but it exploded under load when full throttle was applied and I had to use an APC 6 x 4 reinforced prop to take the power and rotational speed of the motor!

For the Simple scout and to get enough power to travel upwind easily I would seriously suggest that you use a lower Kv motor and swing a large SF prop.

I would seriously worry that trying to swing a 9 inch prop with a 2200kV motor on 3S would be disastrous unless there was serious cooling and the prop was CF. 2200kV on 3S roughly equates to over 25000 RPM That is a great deal of rotational energy!

Be warned!

Have fun!
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
#10
I am not sure of what you are looking to do but the Quick Trick I built and maidened recently used a 2200kV motor running on 3S and I was getting over 80MPH from a plane with similar wing span and slightly less weight!

Initially I used a 6 x 4.5 2 bladed prop but it exploded under load when full throttle was applied and I had to use an APC 6 x 4 reinforced prop to take the power and rotational speed of the motor!

For the Simple scout and to get enough power to travel upwind easily I would seriously suggest that you use a lower Kv motor and swing a large SF prop.

I would seriously worry that trying to swing a 9 inch prop with a 2200kV motor on 3S would be disastrous unless there was serious cooling and the prop was CF. 2200kV on 3S roughly equates to over 25000 RPM That is a great deal of rotational energy!

Be warned!

Have fun!
"recently used a 2200kV motor running on 3S and I was getting over 80MPH from a plane with similar wing span and slightly less weight!"

I can not stop laughing maniacally in my head! What have you done!! :eek: I WANT to fly that plane! I can't fly it. I know I don't have the skills for it.

Just ONE fast close-in pass. It'd be worth it. OK. I've got to take in the teaching that followed that statement, but not tonight. I'm going to have to come back to it. Visions of a low-pass at 80mph with a motor I just happen to own, pretty much completed my comprehensive ability to read for the night. Mind Blown.
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
#12
You recently saw the video I believe if not read; https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/quick-trick-in-3mm-fb.58217/

It currently uses a 2200kV on 3S with a 6.4 prop.

4S is next!

have fun!
The problem from our end is that you know what you're looking at in that video. It's not so obvious to us. Your obvious skill at both building and flying has not been recognized until your most recent video where we could actually see the plane. I'm not faulting you, it's just that if you hadn't realized it before, you need to know.

I watched the video you linked above, and I was extremely happy just to have video from you. I had no idea that plane could do 80mph. It just simply did not come across. What you did was you created a foamboard airplane, with what is basically a cheap-ass motor, a 30 amp esc, on a pretty standard battery and a pretty standard prop. You made it do 80 frackin' miles per hour.

@Hai-Lee, I am building that plane. It may not be my next build or the next after it. But I am building that plane. If only so I can do one low pass at 80mph with the cheap little motors I've got. That's freakin' huge, mate. The video just didn't capture it. That kind of speed with that hardware? It's unreal! o_O:D
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#13
The problem from our end is that you know what you're looking at in that video. It's not so obvious to us. Your obvious skill at both building and flying has not been recognized until your most recent video where we could actually see the plane. I'm not faulting you, it's just that if you hadn't realized it before, you need to know.

I watched the video you linked above, and I was extremely happy just to have video from you. I had no idea that plane could do 80mph. It just simply did not come across. What you did was you created a foamboard airplane, with what is basically a cheap-ass motor, a 30 amp esc, on a pretty standard battery and a pretty standard prop. You made it do 80 frackin' miles per hour.

@Hai-Lee, I am building that plane. It may not be my next build or the next after it. But I am building that plane. If only so I can do one low pass at 80mph with the cheap little motors I've got. That's freakin' huge, mate. The video just didn't capture it. That kind of speed with that hardware? It's unreal! o_O:D
I did need to fly a special pattern so to speak to get the high speed. Do a steep banked turn at height, with the throttle wide open, and do a dive to build up speed and rev the motor out and then scream past into a rapid climb after the pass to try to wash off speed for the turn to repeat the procedure again. When just doing a flat circuit it gets only about 10 MPH slower. 4S will really make it do it in a level circuit if I don't set fire to it that is!

Have fun!
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
#14
I did need to fly a special pattern so to speak to get the high speed. Do a steep banked turn at height, with the throttle wide open, and do a dive to build up speed and rev the motor out and then scream past into a rapid climb after the pass to try to wash off speed for the turn to repeat the procedure again. When just doing a flat circuit it gets only about 10 MPH slower. 4S will really make it do it in a level circuit if I don't set fire to it that is!

Have fun!
You're a madman! And I like it! :love:
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#15
@buzzbomb If you do build one be warned that the plane does need to be really sealed and painted. The ailerons MUST be made more rigid or ithey will flutter badly at speed and the result WILL be nasty! It has full width ailerons controlled from a single horn so the aerodynamic pressure can really build and twist the aileron if to flexible.

As a side note the plane, as per the plans), can fly well on as little as 100 watts and even swing a SF prop so that the builder can get used to its crisp handling and later the nose can be shortened, (to aid the balance), when fitting the larger motor and battery.

High speed crashes are not unknown which is why the "Slick Trick" was designed to reuse the wings from Quick Tricks that have been forcibly shortened by solid objects.

HAVE FUN!