Quick KK firmware question

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Ok you KK guys. Got a quick question. Helping my new friend get his quad in the air tomorrow morning. Just finished soldering up a 10pin -> 6 pin adapter for my FTDI so we can flash his KK2.1.5 tomorrow morning...and I'm totally lost trying to figure out all these different firmware options!

This is his first "real" quad so he's going to want auto level and everything I've heard says that the stock firmwares auto level is horrible. So I'm assuming we need to flash him. But what version of the steveis firmware is best for a beginner?

The only version I see with "beginner" in the name appears to be an older version "v1.12S1 Beginner" which I'm guessing has been supersceeded by the newer "Lite" versions that seem to accompany the "Pro" versions...."v1.17S2 Pro" "v1.17S1 Lite" but I can't seem to find a thread that really lays out the differences between the different versions - just threads on RCGroups for each version but nothing that's explained what's different between "Pro" and "Lite"

And what's this "v1.9s1" which appears to be older than the v1.17 despite having a higher version number?

I'm guessing that "v1.17S1 Lite" is what we want for my friend in the morning, and what we'll be going with unless I hear otherwise at this point.

But if anyone can fill me in or point me towards some better answers I'd appreciate it!
 

FinalGlideAus

terrorizing squirrels
I used the beginner v1.12S1 FW with great success and had it right through to starting to do some acro with it so you can't go wrong with that one. It basically has all the extra fancy stuff stripped away to make it simple to setup. Perfect for a beginner and you can always update later on when you want to do other things with it like add a basic gimbal. I think there is no bad choice with the Stevis FW's, it's a personal thing based on what you want from it.
 

Craftydan

Hostage Taker of Quads
Staff member
Moderator
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Actually, from what I'm reading, "V1.17S1 Lite" is the latest version of his "beginner" style simplified ROMs. If you've already flashed 1.12 and it's out of your hands, no worries-- it's a stable ROM -- but it's missing a few under-the-hood improvements and bug fixes .
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Thanks guys, he'll be here shortly so we haven't flashed yet. Sounds like v1.17s1 Lite is going to be the winner. Will send him home with the adapter I whipped up:

10418615_10152063552376805_1898990820_o.jpg

He's got his own FTDI so with that he'll be able to reflash to something more advanced when he's ready (and I know he's looking forward to learning some acro.)

Will try to get some video of his maiden today if we pull it off.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
You know I'm all for MW e_lm_70 :D

But this one's not mine so not my call.

We got it flashed...and setup...and almost maidened. On the ground just enough throttle to get light on the skids it reacts as expected. But as soon as it starts to get airborne it flips to the left. Ran out of time before we could fully figure out why. ESC's (Afro's so simonk from the factory) are calibrated, maybe a bit nose heavy on balance but good side to side, props all tight, acc calibrated...but with or without self level it just wants to tip left. I tried it once thinking maybe it just needs a bit of manual input to correct - but even though it responds correctly when light on the skids as soon as it's in the air right aileron just reinforces the left flip tendency.

Going to do a bit of research...
 

Craftydan

Hostage Taker of Quads
Staff member
Moderator
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hmmm . . .

probably old-hat for you, but I'd look at the classics -- RX test, correct motor layout, correct motor direction, ESCs in the correct positions on the board (I expect you know what a backward spinning prop sounds like). Most of those would take a more-that-one-wrong to do a pure insta-roll.

You did calibrate the accelerometers right? (might be a stupid question -- not sure it will arm with them uncalibrated)

Either way, save his props -- if it's insta-flipping you should be able to tell it by holding it unpropped and powered. Drop a boom and it should speed up. Much easier for testing.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
hmmm . . .
Hey, that's what I've been saying :D

probably old-hat for you, but I'd look at the classics -- RX test, correct motor layout, correct motor direction, ESCs in the correct positions on the board (I expect you know what a backward spinning prop sounds like). Most of those would take a more-that-one-wrong to do a pure insta-roll.

You did calibrate the accelerometers right? (might be a stupid question -- not sure it will arm with them uncalibrated)

Yep, pretty sure we checked all the obvious go-to issues. RX test looks good everything responds as expected. Motors are all spinning the right direction and have the correct props (air going down on all of them). Accelerometers were calibrated but we recalibrated them again just to be sure.

The one thing I though of after he left is if maybe the motor layout is wrong, i.e. swapped diagonally - spinning in the right directions but not hooked to the right ports. But that doesn't explain why it seems to react correctly when just light on the skids in tall grass. It's only once the throttle gets into the flying range that it wants to go full left roll. If it was a motor layout issue I'd expect it to react incorrectly even when just "floating" in the grass.

Either way, save his props -- if it's insta-flipping you should be able to tell it by holding it unpropped and powered. Drop a boom and it should speed up. Much easier for testing.

Good idea. We tested it that way before putting the props on and it all felt right...but maybe we missed something, he was holding it and I was working the TX so there could have been some miscommunication or he may not have realized it wasn't responding as expected.

Here's the video of the "Maiden" after that I shut down the camera figuring that recording it would only encourage it to misbehave :D


I've sent him a message suggesting he triple check the motor layout/connections and that he try with no props and dipping booms again to make sure that it's responding as it should.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
And sure enough I got a string of texts a few hours ago:

AD: I'm an idiot 1:18 PM
AD: My 3 and 4 engines were swapped...... 1:18 PM
AD: Just lifted off normally 1:27 PM
AD: Going to wait till I get lock nuts. 1:28 PM
AD: For some reason a prop shattered. Not sure. 1:28 PM

Figured it was something simple :D He says he got some video he'll share later. The lock nut reference is because he's just using the stock nuts that came with the sunnysky's right now. I put some loctite on the shafts for him before he left to help - but he plans on hitting the hardware store for some proper locknuts.

He's just using the 10" HK nylon props for now and I'm guessing the shattered one was due to it getting weakened during one of the flips. Not that they're great props, I'm happy with the 8" ones for bashing around but wouldn't be surprised if the 10" ones aren't as strong.

Hope we can get together later this week to try flying each others setups. I'd love to see how the slower sunnysky's with bigger props feel on a larger frame - and how a KK feels in the air. But my wife has to work all week so I won't have many chances and he's heading back out of town soon. Fingers crossed we find at least half an hour to an hour this week that we can swap rigs to try out.
 

e_lm_70

Senior Member
I think you have the wrong layout setting on KK2

I guess you put right motor 1 2 3 4 (FL, FR, RR, RL) ... and also all the rotation I guess they maybe right.

My last dummy thing on this weekend on KK2.0 was to leave default layout that it is a PLUS quad ... not the X QUAD ..

Also ... keep autolevel on ... maybe reduce the gain of it, but keep it on ... it will really help especially for a non proper set up quad.

I would suggest the following manual check.

Keep the copter by hand in the center position ... be very very carefull on it.

Apply a little throttle ...

Check that when you move down the copter over one motor, this motor need to spin faster , also by hand you should keep some resistance

If the felt resistance is difference between same position on different motor .. maybe something is wrong.

Another option, that I do for my little copter .. is to tight two arm-motor on a rope ... so leaving only 1 degree of freedom ... so I can test in total safety if this axis is behaving as correct and if autolevel will kick in.

PS: Looking at the video ... is quite strange this type of maiden ... I expect red prop are the back of the copter ... I always maiden with the back of the copter facing to me ... so all the stick are already in the natural orientation ... so my brain does not have to work more then the minimum needed for remap copter orientation ...
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
I think you have the wrong layout setting on KK2

You missed my last post where he confirmed he did have the #3 and #4 motors swapped didn't you :D

PS: Looking at the video ... is quite strange this type of maiden ... I expect red prop are the back of the copter ... I always maiden with the back of the copter facing to me ... so all the stick are already in the natural orientation ... so my brain does not have to work more then the minimum needed for remap copter orientation ...

Yeah, red is the rear on mine as well - but since he has red arms in front he put his red props on front. Kept messing with me and getting me turned around (I had to look at the video twice just now to confirm) because of that :D

I didn't even notice at the time that he was sideways, from where I was standing it was facing "normally" so to me it looked right, totally missed that for the guy doing the maiden he was sideways!

I kept encouraging him to give it more room to, I was nervous with him so close to it. With a bigger frame and props 2" longer than I'm used to it seemed huge. The plan was to go to the park or his house where there's more room once we had it hovering, but since I have the nice super thick soft grass we figured initial hovers would be best in my backyard :)
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
He's been enjoying the KK and his quad has been flying nicely. He's even strapped a camera to it for a quick test flight. I got to try it and as discussed in my budget quad thread I found KK interesting but think I still prefer the "Feel" of MW in the air.

Well, apparently when MRSS got a batch of Naze boards in my friend Alex picked up a couple. So he decided to swap one in for his KK and see how he likes it. I know he's drooling over the warp quads and is seriously considering building one and using this quad more for FPV or filming. But he wanted to get a taste of Naze and see if this big boy could do some acro.

So we swapped his KK for a full Naze32 late this week. Except yesterday he slipped. Let a live battery wire touch the wrong pins and the STM32 on his Naze went up in smoke. Or as he put it "Smoke, lots of smoke...and a little fire." Ouch. I've got the board here and the STM is toast, got a hole burned in it and one trace may even be melted. But the rest of the board looks ok, going to see if I can still talk to the USB chip on it and may try replacing the STM to see if the board can be salvaged. Luckily he also bought an acro naze. He was really looking forward to using the full naze and trying out altitude hold and heading hold...but figured he may as well put the acro on it and see how he likes it.

Well, we both love it :D We tried using my USBOTG cable to connect it to my phone...and it worked...but as soon as we tried to load the PID screen my app crashed. It's doing the same thing connected to my MW over bluetooth so it seems to be a bug in the app (I'm running the beta version and bugs are not uncommon since the author updates it so often.) Which meant we couldn't tune in the field today. As a compromise we setup the three profiles instead. #1 setup with higher rates (1 for RC 0.65 for PID) #2 his stock rates (0.9 for RC and 0 for PID) and #3...well, I forget what he set different on #3.

We went out to fly and he got in the air first. Had me talk him through some flips thinking we were on profile #1...but he never actually confirmed that. Doh. Turns out we weren't on profile 1. But he still flipped even with the low rates. Just glad he was several mistakes high when he did! Here's the video of those first flips - excuse the shakiness...forgot a real camera so this was cellphone footage today:


After that we fired up my quad in full FPV mode. Was neat finally flying with a spotter. Though a little disconcerting how he's start freaking out about "You're getting REALLY far away man!" when I could still easily see us in my feed and it didn't look that far off :D I thought I was lazily flying around but he said I was really zooming. Need to work on a better camera position I think...fixed camera just feels too limited to me - in slow movement I can't see enough ground - in FFF I see too much.

We took turns flying mine LOS then and I managed to get through 3 batteries on the new motors today. Man does it feel good on those new motors! With my app acting funky I wasn't able to up the rates on mine...but I did a few flips anyway and ended up bouncing off the ground because really my rates were too low for flips and I knew it. I really wanted to bump my rates up to let him feel how my quad feels with high rates....knew I should have setup profiles months ago.

At some point we put his back in the air but he first realized he was on the low rate profile. So he swapped to the high rate profile and suddenly the flips were super easy! It's no warpquad or warthox or anything...but it will flip easily in it's own dimensions now. And he could still go higher on those rates....here he his having some fun with the higher rates:


For the record this is all in Horizon mode today...he's still working up his nerve on Acro and I didn't feel like trying his quad in acro before him - heck I'm still trying to use acro more on mine.


I'm much more impressed by his quad with the naze than I was with the KK. It flew well on the KK...but the things I didn't like about it on the KK are now gone and the things I did like about it before are even better. Compared to mine it's more stable, but flips tighter and feels more dialed in. The robotic yaw of the KK is gone, and while the yaw could be a bit snappier he's still got the rate fairly low on that (we bumped it a bit but not as high as mine since we weren't sure how my MW settings compared to Naze settings on that.) so there's room to experiment still. The yaw just feels much more dialed in now than it did on the KK even with the scaling turned up on the KK.

It's still nice and dialed in feeling...but not quite as "snappy" or mechanical or digital feeling as the KK. It has that more organic feel that I like about my MW. But the bigger rotors and arms are still apparently with it's increased stability and very slight ponderousness in the air compared to mine. He's getting much longer flight times than me though. Part of that is due to his larger batteries (he flies a 3.3 and a 4.0 compared to my 2.2's) but those bigger slower props are calling to me. Thinking more and more about building a larger video quad and using my current one more for acro bashing and mid scale FPV.

Overall a great day of flying. We also snuck in some fun with his X4, my X1 and my new proto-x before we went out.

Only bummer about the day was I assumed since he grew up here and was driving a truck that he knew how to drive off-road. Oops. Turns out his truck was 2WD only and he didn't know to stay on the path and not pull off to park. My desert proving ground is really soft sand once you're off the path and sure enough he sank a tire to the axle. Tried putting some traction under his tire...no go. Aired him down a bit...too late. I had some tie-downs we tried to fashion into a pull strap...snap. So I ended up having to run back to town to get my snatch strap and then come back and tug him out. Even with a proper strap my first attempt with my truck in 4 low resulted in me sunk to the axle at all four corners :( Thankfully I know how low I can go on my air pressure and with my tires dropped nice and low I was able to crawl out of my ruts. Tugging him in the opposite direction gave me firmer ground and first try he popped out.

Oh well, at least none of the flying vehicles had any serious issues!