The DLG flying thread

[jipp]

hey FAI have you seen this old video on free flight produced for AMA ?

its well done. not a whole lot has changed in this part of the hobby.. thought id share i found it interesting anyhow.. maybe boring for old pros and what not.. but they do have some other cool vintage vids.. that others may enjoy if they are bored and wanting to kill some time.

one thing im not sure of is how a rubber band tube works, i see it protected the fuselage.. anyhow was thinking if i could make one for my project, shrugs.

chris,

 

[FAI-F1D]

Oh yeah. Love that video. There used to be a version of it out there with a second segment documenting the 1980 F1D world championship--the one time it was held at West Baden (the site of the 2018 F1D worlds). Footage is just fantastic.

A lot has actually changed on the FAI side. The models now look completely different thanks to composites and molded components. On the AMA side it's still a horsepower race, so the models look relatively the same, other than in handlaunch glider which has been transformed by the discus launch phenomenon. That Mulvihill in the opening scenes is just fantastic. There's just nothing like those rascals. A reasonably good one will do nearly 15 minutes in dead air. And the ornithopter--look closely at those tail surfaces--that's real, live microfilm!

 

[FAI-F1D]

The Hobbyking Versus is finally back, and at a great price: https://north-planes-model-company....discus-launch-gliders/products/azure-1-5m-dlg
A great entry level DLG, far better than the Libelle or really anything else in this price range.

To anyone considering the newer 1.5 meter HK DLG's, go spend your money on a Predator 2, which is far better and at a lower price.

 

[AkimboGlueGuns]

Josh, would you recommend the Azure as a first ship? that price id pretty attractive. Unless you want to do some hunting for me ;P

 

[Craftydan]

It looks like a decent kit for the price, but you will have to build it out. intermediate build skills -- epoxy layup to join the wings with cloth/tape, cutting servo bays and channels, mounting tails, linkages and electronics. You should be fine, and it should be good build practice, just know what you're getting into. 10h finish time is doable, but optimistic. There's a decent build-out thread over on RCG which steps through the process. Keep in mind there are things you can do off that script that are a bit more work, but pay off in performance.

I'd highly recommend investing in "not bottom of the barrel" servos -- I've been running Hyperion ds09's , which run as low as $18-$22/ea...x4. These are cheap servos for what they are, but they perform very well. They can run 1s or 2s, so all depends what your chosen RX can handle as to whether you need a step up/down regulator. They also have a programmer module that's pretty cheap -- basic and a pain to get running on a PC, but will allow you to digitally recenter and adjust the throw over the DS09's 140 degree throw. All told that adds roughly $80-$100 to finish out to PNF. There is a slim analog servo, the ks47mg, that are thin enough to slip in the wings, but you'll probably value the extra throw and better performance of the ds09. Whatever you choose, don't pick a servo thicker than 9mm.

As far as handling, the airfoils she has are behind state of the art, but they're a good, well behaved set that should give you friendly performance. Should treat you well as you pick up the rythm of the launch. The wing is carbon and glass skin as opposed to Kevlar, so she's susceptible to some rather nasty dings and dents, so keep her away from trees, fences, shins and hands -- catch her by the pod or belly land. Don't try to catch her by the leading edge...or tail Otherwise, dents and dings should be patchable with a little epoxy and carbon tow or cloth. Good practice in patching composites.

Oh, and plan on replacing that peg. It's fine to start, but once you throw with a nice one like Eitan's, you'll be spoiled. They run pretty cheap ($17, shipped, IIRC), but you'll have to wait for it to ship from Israel.

 

[FAI-F1D]

All of Dan's remarks apply. For the price range, it's the best bird on the market that I know of. The build out does include all the items Dan mentioned, but if you're willing to put in the time, it's not bad and requires no special tooling. It's a sufficiently forgiving setup that you don't have to do a picture perfect job on it. The glass wing and tail aren't super difficult to repair, and honestly I haven't found Kevlar wings any less susceptible to damage (and harder to repair because Kevlar is a pain in the neck). Bottom line, a superb trainer DLG with massive documentation (look up the HK Versus threads on rcgroups). If you're willing to spend more, of course, the Predator 2 and 2.5 are higher performing birds ($250 and $275 respectively) and have product support in the form of finishing jigs and the like.

I haven't found top of the line servos to be an absolute. My first DLG, now in the hands of Mike Finley, uses HS55's in the wings (I paid $20 each for those back in the day!) and Hobbyking 5 g servos in the pod. Were I doing it again, I'd go for the 9 g thin servos from Dymond (D06 I think), which are inexpensive and won't protrude from the wing. The thicker servos do protrude from the wing, though the plane would still fly quite well.

Definitely get a throwing blade. Pegs are heavy, draggy, and uncomfortable. At the very least get a Snipe peg, but Eitan's pegs are the best money can buy. Make certain whatever you do that the peg is mounted very securely. I have maimed several airplanes by not properly securing the pegs.

 

[Slowmatch]

...On a slightly different note, this little rascal popped up recently (scroll down to post #12) as a pretty cool low budget DLG build: http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=20663.0;topicseen

Hi guys, just stumbled across this thread by chance - I'm Jon, designer of the Frenzy, Vela and CANDy DLG's. I'm slowmatch here and on RCG but I've known Josh a lot longer as a fellow free flighter on SFA and Hippocket (Hey Josh )

My attempts at DLG design have been intended to match what is commercially available with my own designs and at a budget. The Frenzy is getting close to that aim - I fly it against a Strike and it's pretty close in performance considering is a rudder/elevator model. The penetration and energy retention are probably better but obviously you can't slow it down quite the same without camber changing.

I think there's something to be said for a homebuilt first dlg as an entry point if funds are limited but once you have a taste for DLG, it is well worth saving up for a proper commercial model. They are expensive, but well worth the money if you want the performance/design/weight of a decent F3K. I think its worth saving for one of the top level models as you do get what you pay for. Another option would be to buy a second hand model a few years old, although they aren't that readily available.

Jon

 

[Craftydan]

Hey Jon, Welcome to the forum!

I've been following the CANDy thread and an interesting build it is! Hadn't seen the Flitz go by . . . looks slippery

Feel free to start a thread on the Flitz here as you progress. You probably won't get the insight on refining your foils you might get elsewhere, but you might be able to introduce some people to the concepts of carving out their own wings.

 

[Slowmatch]

Hi Dan, thanks for the welcome! Just for clarity, my design is the Frenzy, the Flitz(bogen) is a top level carbon F3K design up there with the Snipe and Stream NXT

A couple of Frenzy videos:

Cheers,
Jon

 

[Craftydan]

Just for clarity, my design is the Frenzy, the Flitz(bogen) is a top level carbon F3K design up there with the Snipe and Stream NXT

I'm . . . um . . . just giving the Frenzy the top-shelf cred in the mosquito class

Doh! My fingers are running faster than my brain . . . if only my launch was as fast

 

[Slowmatch]

Haha no worries, I took it as a compliment

 

[FAI-F1D]

Jon,

Good to see you over here. You've come out with some seriously good stuff over the years, but that Frenzy definitely takes the cake. Such a beautiful airplane!

Any consideration to going to a composite wing? I for one have lost interest in balsa wings on gliders...can't guarantee consistency, and I don't have time for failed wings anymore.

 

[Slowmatch]

Cheers Josh. I dont expect I will be getting involved in composites in the near future. The standard of what you can buy now is so exceptionally high and the aero design work so highly optimised. I did consider bagging some wings but by the time I've got equipped and churned out the dozen or so planes required to refine the skills it just makes more sense to save up and buy a Snipe or an NXT. This is less so at the mosquito size however, there is still some scope for homebuilding to be 'competitive'. The Elf is a really good little model but is limited to light wind conditions, the Strike is the first really good 1m to come out in my opinion, and can handle more breeze. I've flown the Topsky Mini and Hobbyking V2 and with models like the Mini Q and to be honest I wouldn't bother with them in comparison to the Elf or Strike (or Frenzy )

I've been pleasantly surprised just how tough the balsa construction has been. The Frenzy is reinforced with carbon spar caps, LE and TE and also has 18gsm glass on the tips and centre section. That said, the little Vela was just balsa and tissue (with a little 1/64" ply in the tips and dihedral brace) and that has flown about 70hrs and roughly 3500 launches. It's a little ratty now but I still specked out with it on Friday not too bad for about £30 of bits including materials, battery, rx and servos

 

[ztoon]

My zephyr dlg is going back to action after a severe nose dive crash. Not my first composite repair now, so I'm getting better/faster with that. Front pod is painted white to hide filler/fiber patches over the kevlar. This glider is now equiped with a compression contact wing connectors and a magnetic switch, so it is quickly in action after going out of the car

discard the taranis alarms, the levels are too high and trigger false alarms (RSSI Low)

 

[DarkFire]

Just finished my scratch built balsa DLG, after many alterations to weak parts. I haven't flown it yet as its really light and the winds have been blowing pretty hard for a few days.

Wingspan: 30 in (76.2 cm)
Length: 24.5 in (62.2cm)
Weight: 61 grams

I would post pictures but the image inserter(is that a word?) is saying all my pictures are too big of a file, so anyone know anything about that?

Thanks,
Dark

 

[FAI-F1D]

I would post pictures but the image inserter(is that a word?) is saying all my pictures are too big of a file, so anyone know anything about that?

You'll need to go into Microsoft Photo Editor (if you have Windows), Paint, or some other program and reduce the size of the photos, ie, shrink them down in resolution.

Has your DLG flown yet?

 

[FAI-F1D]

There hasn't been much DLG activity on here lately. Let's liven things up a bit:

 

[FAI-F1D]

Latest acquisition: Epee XT. Unfortunately these are no longer available, however there are several really nice 1m DLG's available now for very reasonable prices.

Go look at https://www.superfly.online/sub-1-5m-dlg for some nice choices. You can actually directly order the Hawk from inside the US, sometimes for as low as $180 (Nikolas is the manufacturer, not just a random seller): https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3128066-1m-DLG-Sale

Another fun tidbit:
And now back to actual chuck gliders. Get your advice from the real expert--a 3 year old!

 

[JTarmstr]

What excactly is a DLG?

 

[FAI-F1D]

What excactly is a DLG?

Discus Launched Glider, so termed because you do a 360 degree turn to launch just as you would a discus. Also, best form of soaring ever.