What constitutes an A, B, C PowerPack Model? Are there AA or AAA sized planes?

[TedD70]

Is there a chart or explanation for the sizes (length, wingspan, AUW) of planes that the A, B, C PowerPacks, receivers and servos fit?

Does FT sell power packs, receivers and servos to fit AA sized (16 to 20 in. / 35 to 80 gram) or "AAA" sized planes? Why not? Given all of the new FAA rules that are proposed, I have a feeling that AA and AAA sized models are going to become VERY popular.

I think this information might be helpful and maybe even inspirational to new scratch builders and old guys (like me) who could use a "reference at a glance" sort of thing.

Oh yeah, I forgot ... I'm a new guy here. This is my 7th post. My Dad started me building stick and tissue kits in the early 1960's, I started flying CL about 1965. Then I discovered girls and cars and there was a lay-off for a while. Then about 40 years ago I thought I'd like to give R/C a shot. I bought a Sturdy Birdy II, and scratch built some of Al Wheeler's EZ Fly stuff ... and a couple big gliders ... but never learned to fly. Then there was another layoff ... and then I spotted the Hobbyzone Champ and the T-28 ... and i built a bunch of stuff based on that stuff ... but I still have never put anything in the air.

I just bought a Volantex Sport Cub 500 and a park where I can fly it. Hopefully, I'll learn to fly ... and wreck it so I can salvage the parts. I think I'd like to build a Boeing YL-15 Scout and a Cessna 0-2 Mixmaster.

I am definitely into building models less than 20 inch wing span.

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

Sorry,there is no rym or reason to the pack sizes. The info on each is available where they are sold. I agree, a chart would be useful.

 

[TedD70]

Sorry,there is no rhyme or reason to the pack sizes. The info on each is available where they are sold. I agree, a chart would be useful.

Thank you for your reply. As a person interested in building and modding (and buying stuff!!!), some sort of chart would be a big help. I've gone through the same sort of stuff trying to figure out how to convert gassers to electric.


Do you speak for FT in some official capacity, or is yours the voice of experience?

If you are with FT officially ... could you make the suggestion to the PTB? If not ... who do we have to bring this idea to?

Also, it there a way to get FT more involved with AA and AAA sized models?

 

[Aslansmonkey]

Typically, A and F packs are for their "Mini" sized planes, with the F motor being the higher performance option. These planes typically use 5g servos (give or take a little)

B and C packs are for their "Swappable" sized planes, with the C motor being higher in performance. These planes typically use 9g servos (again, give or take a little)

The Master Series planes typically want the C motor and 9G servos.

As always, read the recommendations on any plane your building, but that's the size correlation in a nutshell.

 

[TedD70]

Typically ...

I think you may have missed my point. Suppose I don't want to buy FT's planes ... I want to build my own from plans or maybe convert a Guillow's free-flight kit. These planes do not have "recommendations".

What is the wing span, length and auw RANGE of a "typical" "Mini Sized" plane?

What is the wing span, length and auw RANGE of a "typical" "Swapable" sized model.

What is the wing span, length and auw RANGE of a "typical "MASTER Series" sized model.

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

Thank you for your reply. As a person interested in building and modding (and buying stuff!!!), some sort of chart would be a big help. I've gone through the same sort of stuff trying to figure out how to convert gassers to electric.


Do you speak for FT in some official capacity, or is yours the voice of experience?

If you are with FT officially ... could you make the suggestion to the PTB? If not ... who do we have to bring this idea to?

Also, it there a way to get FT more involved with AA and AAA sized models?

I do not speak for FT in any way.

 

[CappyAmeric]

I am definitely into building models less than 20 inch wing span.

That is a very small size so the easy answer is the standard FT Power Packs were designed for larger and heavier planes. FT does have their newer Nano Flerken power add-on, which uses a micro quad motor. If you want to build and fly models that small, you need to be looking at motors from the 1105 to 1404 range, with 6 to 12 amp ESCs. You can buy those from FT, but not as a power pack combo. Other than the Nano Flerken, FT does not go that small except for their STEM EZ fliers which use 2 tiny brushed motors for power and flight control in conjunction with a tiny flight controller.

 

[tamuct01]

There seemed to be a rhyme or reason early on. A packs were for the mini planes, B for intermediate, and C for the larger planes. That all kinda went out the window when they jumped to F packs that features common 2206 high KV drone motors. They also introduced M motors for the monster planes.

 

[Aslansmonkey]

I think you may have missed my point. Suppose I don't want to buy FT's planes ... I want to build my own from plans or maybe convert a Guillow's free-flight kit. These planes do not have "recommendations".

What is the wing span, length and auw RANGE of a "typical" "Mini Sized" plane?

What is the wing span, length and auw RANGE of a "typical" "Swapable" sized model.

What is the wing span, length and auw RANGE of a "typical "MASTER Series" sized model.

Compare the stats of the plane your building to FTs planes and the motors will be similar, all things considered.

But with all the possible variations in air frames and wings its not really possible to have a list that says "this motor can work with this size wing with this size prop." Its a matter of experience and experimentation.

 

[TedD70]

But with all the possible variations in air frames and wings its not really possible to have a list that says "this motor can work with this size wing with this size prop." Its a matter of experience and experimentation.

... and yet there are two folks on this thread who seem to remember that FT used to do exactly that.

Do you know why .049 engines are (OK ... were) called "1/2 A"? For DECADES model kit builders would write on the kit box ... "This kit requires a 1/2 A (or size A, B, C, D) engine." Charts like this could be found in the magazines, and the guys that sold parts could hand you the exact motor you needed when you told him what you were building. It was this way from my Dad's childhood in the 1930's until the popular use of electric motors sometime in the 1980's.

Back in the 1980's when I asked about converting planes from fuel to electric I was told exactly what you said: "NOBODY can tell you what electric engine you need for that 36" high wing monoplane ... Its a matter of experience and experimentation." I didn't believe that then and I don't believe that now. Electric motors and gas engines have one thing in common, they both consume fuel (of a sort) to make mechanical power. That mechanical power is measurable ... and there IS an electric motor which will directly replace a .049 1/2A engine ... and will support a model airplane having a 16 to 20 inch wing span, a fuselage length of x to x inches and auw weight of x to x grams. The same applies to A, B C and D sized engines/motors.

Listing horse power, watts and amps in a product listing is swell ... but it doesn't do anything for the nube ... or somebody unknowledgeable in how those figures relate, as a practical matter, to the plane he is building.

"Experience and Experimentation" has its place, but when the manufacturer AND the seller both know the power of what they are selling, I think it's a costly and unnecessary burden on nube and builder alike.

Compare the stats of the plane your building to FTs planes and the motors will be similar, all things considered.

As a consumer, I don't think its unreasonable to ask those who make ... or sell ... electric motors (and related gear) to make a chart, based on their knowledge of the product they are dealing with, of the wingspan, fuse length and weight RANGE a given electric motor will support.

They DO give us the dimensions of servos and receivers so we know, without experience and extermination, which models they will fit in.

If FT has, as I told, done this in the past, I can't see why they wouldn't still have a chart ... especially for customers who want to build and fly models other then the ones they sell. I think this is a small and simple thing ... and fits right in with their wonderful business plan of modeler support and education.

And while they're at it I hope they would remember us modelers who fly 1/4A and 1/2A planes ... with both parts AND information!

 

[CappyAmeric]

As a consumer, I don't think its unreasonable to ask those who make ... or sell ... electric motors (and related gear) to make a chart, based on their knowledge of the product they are dealing with, of the wingspan, fuse length and weight RANGE a given electric motor will support

Because the sheer volume of specs for brushless motors and prop combinations (2, 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s LIPOs, 2 blade, 3 blade, 4 blade props), as well as applications (racing quad, cinewoop, fixed wing, etc.) would be almost useless to someone who has no experience, thus defeating the purpose if it is for newbies. Go on up to racedayquads.com and look at the specs for the hundreds of motors they have. Pick two that seem identical from different manufacturers , and you will quickly see that they will likely not deliver the same performance.

If you take a look at FT's Store, you will see motor recommendations for all of their kits. For many of us that scratch build, we either go on past experience, or extrapolate from FT's recommendations for their speed build kits - for instance, if you want to build a 25" wing model that AUW is about 250 grams, you can try the recommended motor and ESC for the Nano Flerken.

As you have already seen, there are a lot of people here on the forum that are ready to help, so ask for a recommendation for a motor for a model, given the specs I am sure you will get a lot of responses. As for FT, this is their forum, but it is largely unmonitored by them, so making appeals to FT are better made by direct contact.

 

[JasonK]

Is there a chart or explanation for the sizes (length, wingspan, AUW) of planes that the A, B, C PowerPacks, receivers and servos fit?

At one point there was a chart which showed which power pack went with which plane. What size power power pack would be driven by more then just length/wingspan/AUW, but things like performance profiles of the plane in question (a low wing loaded plane can get away with less power for example). But mostly the goal behind the power packs is so that FT can design their planes around a few different sets of electronics vs having a bunch of different electronics that vary based on each specific plane.

Does FT sell power packs, receivers and servos to fit AA sized (16 to 20 in. / 35 to 80 gram) or "AAA" sized planes? Why not? Given all of the new FAA rules that are proposed, I have a feeling that AA and AAA sized models are going to become VERY popular.

• there was the H-pack, that is no more, which was a twin motor setup that targeted sub-250g planes
  • I suspect that this needing soldering was a challenge with the general target market for the normal FT speedbuild kits/power packs, but that is only an guess.
• there is the nano-flerken power pack, which is a current sub-250g focused power pack and fits into that ~20" wing span 200-250g plane.
• The A-pack is more then viable for a sub-250g plane, in fact the Tiny Trainer can be built sub-250g with an A-pack motor (3 channel wing, 2s battery) and many of the Mighty Mini planes can be built under 250g, so FT does have options in this market.

I think this information might be helpful and maybe even inspirational to new scratch builders and old guys (like me) who could use a "reference at a glance" sort of thing.

given the breadth of things that impact these choices, I don't know that there is a 'x power pack for y wing span' plane.. for no other reason then that the power setup for a motor glider is going to be way different then something targeting 60+mph speed passes... even if they have the same wing span.

I am definitely into building models less than 20 inch wing span.

my 'small' stuff is around that wing span, but the goal is to get a full FPV setup at sub-250g for me, so most my stuff is coming in in the 200-250g range, which going under 20" wing span means some trade offs.

here are a few builds that I have done that are sub-250g, many of them with A-pack motors, a few with motors worked out from my own research:

• Post with much of the items I have done
• A design that I never quite got working (but I am sure some more itteration and it would work good, could get sub 200g with a smaller 2s battery and would still expected 8+ minutes FPV cruises
• a nano-flerken
• a mighty mini arrow
• Punjet
• Wonder Glider/ EZ Glider (doesn't have power by default, but a small motor can be put on it and it flies good enough)
• I designed a twin that I maidened at FF - it was a rocket and needed reduced throws - but can't find it on the forums (image attached)

 

[TedD70]

Because the sheer volume of specs for brushless motors and prop combinations (2, 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s LIPOs, 2 blade, 3 blade, 4 blade props), as well as applications (racing quad, cinewoop, fixed wing, etc.) would be almost useless to someone who has no experience, thus defeating the purpose if it is for newbies.

Do you know how many variations Cox built their .049 in? Or the number of Fox .015's or .035s there were? I have to say that we had the same volume of motors and "specs and combinations" for well over 60 years (from the first commercial model a/c engine until about 1980 or so) in the wet-fuel engine days ... and the very same number AND variety of model kits. I've got a lot of both in my basement.


As a GENERAL rule, a motor/engine of a given power (hp, watts, amps) will only support a model airplane having a x to x inch wing span, a fuselage length of x to x inches and auw weight of x to x grams.

Are there exceptions ... yes, of course. A .049 engine will get a glider with a huge wing span up to an altitude where it will glide for days. But I am not convinced that there are so many exceptions that it will make a general power to weight, wing span, fuse length guideline useless.

I'll just put all of this into a suggestion and post it to FT. If they think the idea has merit ... they'll act on it, if not ... they won't. No harm ... no foul.

I have read all of your posts and appreciate very much the polite discussion, thank you VERY much. You are a good bunch!

 

[AIRFORGE]

I downloaded this list from somewhere on this forum in December of 2021. (Guessing by the name I gave the pdf).
It is not, to my knowledge, complete. It is, however, somewhat helpful.

 

[TedD70]

I downloaded this list from somewhere on this forum in December of 2021. (Guessing by the name I gave the pdf). It is not, to my knowledge, complete. It is, however, somewhat helpful.

FAR OUT!!!!!

Maybe a lot more than just "somewhat" helpful!!! AND with some messing around I can copy it into an Xcell spread sheet!!! From there I can do all manner of stuff to it and just maybe come up with the "general guide" I've been talking about. Even if I delete out the wildcards (gliders and such) this list still has 70+ planes worth of fairly current (2021) data.

All I have to do is organize the planes into "power pac groups" and we have a fairly useful tool. Then I can get the ranges of wing span, weight and recommended engines (and etc.) for each group ... maybe make the chart I was talking about.

This just might work!

THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

 

[tamuct01]

There is this thread that's pretty up to date:
https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/the-complete-ft-scratchbuild-index.53908/
as well as this doc, which has even more FT plane data:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Yxe7XBQQV-ocETP33EqDT6huA/edit#gid=1786692376

You can sort the list however you want to find a plane that works with a power pack you have, or find your next project and know what extra equipment you need.

 

[Bricks]

I*

Do you know how many variations Cox built their .049 in? Or the number of Fox .015's or .035s there were? I have to say that we had the same volume of motors and "specs and combinations" for well over 60 years (from the first commercial model a/c engine until about 1980 or so) in the wet-fuel engine days ... and the very same number AND variety of model kits. I've got a lot of both in my basement.


As a GENERAL rule, a motor/engine of a given power (hp, watts, amps) will only support a model airplane having a x to x inch wing span, a fuselage length of x to x inches and auw weight of x to x grams.

Are there exceptions ... yes, of course. A .049 engine will get a glider with a huge wing span up to an altitude where it will glide for days. But I am not convinced that there are so many exceptions that it will make a general power to weight, wing span, fuse length guideline useless.

I'll just put all of this into a suggestion and post it to FT. If they think the idea has merit ... they'll act on it, if not ... they won't. No harm ... no foul.

I have read all of your posts and appreciate very much the polite discussion, thank you VERY much. You are a good bunch!

IC engines are easy as IC engines go by displacement and the only variable is how much nitro and maybe a tuned muffler. A 15 nitro is a .5 nitro no matter who built it, yes some had a touch more power but still the same.

Electric is a whole new ball game as you seem to be finding out and others have explained, electrics go by watts and all up weight. It`s up to the designer what flight envelope he wants the plane to fly in there really is no hard concrete answer for which electric to run, even the manufacturers only give you the basics, this combination with this prop and this battery give you X amount of watts, at these amps that is it.

No way could you list all the different motors, take a look at say 2306 outrunner motors and all the variants some will run only 2s and the same size 2306 motor from the same manufacturer will run 3s-6s with totally different watts, ESC and prop requirements, did not even mention in runners.