What is it with RC retracts?

earthsciteach

Moderator
Moderator
No matter what level of build, from a small foamy up to a turbine powered monster, failures of retractable landing gear seem all too common. If you fly a retractable plane, you have experienced problems, I bet. So why is it that all retracts seem so prone to failure?
 

Fluburtur

Cardboard Boy
On larger models they use compressed air and a compressed air system has a whole lot of failure point. Possible leaks at every joint, not enough pressure, human error, wear, mechanical failure.

You see a bunch of landing gear failures on rc crashes videos (I love those) and while those are fairly rare, and not like every 5 flights they still seem to be a problem.

As for electric ones I have no idea as I don't know how they work.
 

Pieliker96

Elite member
The electric ones use a DC motor and current sensing to determine where to stop IIRC.
If the motor or board doesn't burn out from overcycling/thermals, they'll die of mechanical failure.
The main problem is that most of the cheap ones are made of plastic or very soft metal which causes the internal mechanisms to wear and eventually break. You can get solid etracts with steel trunnions and such, but these cost a lot and weight a lot as well.
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
Moving parts mean more parts means more points of possible failure as well as weaker areas probably due to space and weight limitations.

At least that is the mechanical side of things I would guess. The rest is all piloting and landing harder or not in ways they were designed for.

Just remember the old saying "If it has @#$! or wheels (I add props now too) Its bound to give you problems".
 

mrjdstewart

Legendary member
i personally swore i would never buy another plane with retracts. they just can't take the abuse and remain "scale" at this point. even spending money and upgrading to Oleo's is questionable. ok, now the gear is good, but the servo is still probably gonna fail. now i have spent a ton of money, and still have to spend more. no thanks. my newest warbird is 800mm and has solid gear.

for those of you who do have them though, setup is critical. just like setting trim, you need to adjust your gear. this will eliminate a lot of problems like only one gear coming down, or not wanting to go up. on spektrum it is in "servo setup" and "travel." you have 2 numbers under "gear", one is for up, the other for down. start at 80% on both, then adjust up. use as little as possible to ensure the safe opening/closing of all the gear. meaning, if it opens and closes at 80%, and doesn't look like it is folding in. go with it. if it goes up, then comes back down @ 80%, you golden. adjust this as your plane takes abuse and the gears get bent. this will help reduce the fatigue on the servo motors and hopefully (cross fingers) keep you from spending more money.

good luck,

jason ;)
 

wilmracer

I build things that fly (sometimes)
Mentor
Amen. It really is a catch-22. IMHO fixed gear on a model that didn't have fixed gear IRL just doesn't look right. So you're stuck with small, parkflyer like belly landers or biting the bullet and doing retracts. If we all had manicured runways it would be better, but I've had units fail that I'm certain didn't take too much abuse. The options for etracts and struts have become a lot more numerous in recent years, but for larger models it is still tough to find the right gear. There are some gear manufacturers that make SOLID stuff, but they cost a lot, and if you have a rare model with an unusual gear design you're going to need metal work and electronics skills to fabricate your own. I'm in that boat now with a project I'm mulling over. Probably going to have to build my own main gear units and I'm not looking forward to it
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
I think if I actually had planes large enough to require retracts I would fabricate my own using aluminum shocks from RC monster trucks. The oil filled ones with varying tension over coil springs are great for abuse. Then its just down to a hard point for it to pivot on and a lever to actuate it.
 

F106DeltaDart

Elite member
I’ll start out by saying that 95% of my total airplanes have retracts, and it’s definitely true that I’ve had my share of issues. For the root causes here’s what I’ve found so far.

1. Mounting: A lot of retracts are screwed into a small plastic pocket that is barely glued into the surrounding foam. In many cases, this leads to the gear being pulled out on the first landing or sometimes even taxi. If done properly, a clever balance in the amount of glue application or structural design allows the gear to break away in the event of a very bad landing or crash. Unfortunately, most manufacturers either under or over do it on the glue. This is generally more so in foam models, and less common in balsa and composite. Also, any interference or parts of the gear touching the wheel wells could possibly trigger the current protection, and stop deployment.

2. Field conditions and pilot error: If you hit too hard, they’re going to break. Either that, or punch up through the wing. The model also has to be suited to the field. No small EDFs with tiny wheels in long bumpy grass. Trust me, it doesn’t end well. Sand and dusty conditions will also greatly reduce the life of a retract, especially in fore-aft deploying gear, where it gets kicked up into the retract by the wheels.

3. Strut design: Most gear either have no strut, or a poorly designed strut. The straight wire (no coil spring) transfers all the landing loads straight to the retract trunnion and jack screw. This might be ok on a paved runway if you are great at landings, but on grass, somethings sure to give. The straight “oleo” type strut (vertical compression only) looks scale and does a great job of taking vertical stresses down a notch. However, rearward loading and bending moments are transferred straight to the retract. On bumpy grass, those loads take a toll, and something will probably wear or bend. The trailing link strut helps disapate the rearward loads as well as vertical, and is best on grass, but is generally not as Scale looking with a few exceptions.

4. Retract Design: For most sub-$500 Models, they all use more or less the same retract design. A motor driving a jack screw pulling a slider that moves the trunnion and looks it up/down. Generally, this is encased in a plastic housing. The design is optimized for a fore-aft rearward deploying gear, and puts the loads through the strongest part of the housing. However, for a forward deploying gear, all of the load is on the jackscrew. This can bend the part even slightly, and cause failures later down the road. Gear folding horizontally put all the bending loads into the thinnest parts of the plastic frame, and can cause cracking. Rotating retracts (like a Corsair) become even more complex, by applying the torsional loads into a small pin prone to bending. More expensive gear like Eflite or Robart are engineered better, but are only available for huge models.

One of the advances that I have loved to see in gear is a combination of increased scale fidelity and durability. The main gear of the Freewing 90mm F-16 are beautiful and can really take beating. They incorporate the same folding locking arms as the full scale to better distribute loads. The new FMS Tigercat is the same way.

All this said, I’ll keep using them and fixing them because I’m a hopeless scale nut who loves seeing the gear go up after takeoff. Hopefully this shed some light on some of the more common failure modes.
 
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wilmracer

I build things that fly (sometimes)
Mentor
All this, said, I’ll keep using them and fixing them because I’m a hopeless scale nut, who loves seeing the gear go up after takeoff. Hopefully this shed some light on some of the more common failure modes.

Agreed :cool:
 

Pieliker96

Elite member
While I was re-mounting the gear on my B-70, I noticed that the pins weren't secured properly and were able to rotate in the trunnion. I guess that's what I get for buying a pair of retracts for $15 off of HobbyKing, but hey.

I attempted to fix this by using a center punch on the pin, hoping that it would create an interference fit with the walls of the trunnion from the displaced material, but was unsuccessful. I ended up heating the assembly with a soldering iron and then running cold water over it. They're stuck now, but I expect I'll have to do this again.

While I was cycling the gear to make sure they work, one got stuck in the down position and wouldn't come back up. I took it apart to see what was wrong and found that the slider had moved to the end of the jack screw and ran out of thread, causing it to seize. I took out the screw/slider assembly, broke the slider free, and put it back together, where it now works fine. These retracts rely on limit switches, so I suspect one may have been ever so slightly out of alignment and caused the slider to overrun it's intended position.

For the sake of clarity to those who have never seen the inner workings of a retract before, Here's an annotated picture:

20180427_203615.jpg
 

Ray K

Ray K
Retracts on full-scale planes fail, too. That gear is not really so different from R/C retracts, usually just basically more robust. We have the micro-switches for limits, and most 400 Cessna are driven by electric motors and gear trains. It's up to the pilot and ground crew to use discretion when operating the gear or moving the airplane. Ground tugs are famous for yanking nose wheels out from under planes. That usually requires at least one prop blade replacement. Expensive!
 

PmoSYC

New member
I think if I actually had planes large enough to require retracts I would fabricate my own using aluminum shocks from RC monster trucks. The oil filled ones with varying tension over coil springs are great for abuse. Then its just down to a hard point for it to pivot on and a lever to actuate it.
wouldn't that add extra weight
 

skymaster

Elite member
would it be possible to power the receiver with a separate power source, that way when the battery gets drain the receiver has enough power to power all servos including the landing gear.
 

Draftman1

Active member
Retracts on full-scale planes fail, too. That gear is not really so different from R/C retracts, usually just basically more robust. We have the micro-switches for limits, and most 400 Cessna are driven by electric motors and gear trains. It's up to the pilot and ground crew to use discretion when operating the gear or moving the airplane. Ground tugs are famous for yanking nose wheels out from under planes. That usually requires at least one prop blade replacement. Expensive!
thats also why there is a manual gear retraction backup device on full size planes