New Adams foam board?

[TexMechsRobot]

Josh,

Your timely and appropriate response was much needed on this thread. Thank you VERY much for being transparent and open with your friends!

 

[Josh Bixler]

Absolutely friend.

Great things are coming in 2017!

Josh

 

[cranialrectosis]

And this, folks, is why FT forums blow RCGroups away...

Bixler for president!

 

[Josh Bixler]

And this, folks, is why FT forums blow RCGroups away...

Bixler for president!

I believe in a plane in every garage and Foam board on every workbench!!!!

Love you brother!

 

[jamboree1]

Josh, good to hear from you about what's going on. I can understand though where Nic is coming from, he learned about the new foam board, he found it to be an inferior product, he felt threatened and betrayed about one of his major passions so he lashed out. Reading that the WR foam might be carried in stores is an exciting prospect as is hobby town carrying kits.

 

[baz.b]

I obviously don't know you Josh, although after watching dozens of your video's etc, I feel like I do know you, and from what I can see, I'd like to wish you all the very best for the future, and that's from Baz in the UK.

 

[Josh Bixler]

Thanks Baz.

Trust me, The people from the FT community are way cooler! That said, We are planning for a FliteFest Europe in 2018. Would love to meet you! Be prepared, I am a hugger!

Josh

 

[Josh Bixler]

Josh, good to hear from you about what's going on. I can understand though where Nic is coming from, he learned about the new foam board, he found it to be an inferior product, he felt threatened and betrayed about one of his major passions so he lashed out. Reading that the WR foam might be carried in stores is an exciting prospect as is hobby town carrying kits.

Goal is also to carry the foam itself too. Raw material first, then kits. That way every design from both FT, NN, and the awesome FT Family can be built. Not just the speed build kits.

Josh

 

[jhitesma]

Wow, I was hoping for an official FT response to this issue...but never expected Josh to dust off his account and respond personally

Now that I read that back it sounds wrong to let me expand...I don't mean to imply that Josh wouldn't/didn't care just that he (maybe I should say you since he's actually taking part in the discussion right now) isn't really a forum guy so I had no expectation of him addressing this personally. I got to see first hand at FF2015 just what kind of guy Josh is on several occasions so this doesn't surprise me at all. More than once I saw someone ask Josh about a mistake they made building something and whether it would affect the performance or not and maybe asking for an extra bamboo skewer or bit of piano wire to fix a mistake - only to have Josh say "hold on a second" then come back a minute later with a full replacement quick build kit for them. That really drove home to me just how honest and genuine Josh's over the top "nice guy" appearance is and that it truly is a reflection of the kind of person he is and the vision he has for FT.

So thank you very much Josh for taking the time to address this personally! Listening to the last two podcasts (love the video format BTW - works much better for me as it fits right in with my YT subs instead of being somewhere else that I keep forgetting about because I have a 5 minute commute so never remember to look at podcasts to listen to at home.) I suspected we'd get a response similar to this as the issue of scratch builders was touched on a few times and seemed to foreshadow this reply.

I would love to see WR at DT and will definitely let my local stores know. I've been considering ordering a case but my budget is super tight and the shipping makes it tough. I've been talking to a few others locally about going in on a case together but it's yet to actually happen - though now that I have my needle cutter working reliably it's probably finally going to happen I know at least one person has talked to our LHS about getting a case - but like most LHS's they're having a hard time and he just can't take the risk right now even on that small of an investment

The FT store may not be the lowest prices around - but it's by far the best deal around and I've gotten more value out of my few purchases than any other vendor I've dealt with. I only wish I had a larger hobby budget so I could buy more goodies

 

[cranialrectosis]

jhitesma, FT needs to hire you.

 

[jhitesma]

jhitesma, FT needs to hire you.

I love Ohio but I'm not ready to move back there unless they can get rid of that white stuff that infects it this time of year

 

[cranialrectosis]

It's 2017... We have Skype.

All we need now is the formula to 3D print our own foamboard and this becomes the best thread ever!

Good luck to NN and Bixler. All our scratch build hopes and dreams are with you guys.


PS: Due to freezing fog, I have the day off and am FULL of sinus meds.

 

[Josh Bixler]

Wow, I was hoping for an official FT response to this issue...but never expected Josh to dust off his account and respond personally

Now that I read that back it sounds wrong to let me expand...I don't mean to imply that Josh wouldn't/didn't care just that he (maybe I should say you since he's actually taking part in the discussion right now) isn't really a forum guy so I had no expectation of him addressing this personally. I got to see first hand at FF2015 just what kind of guy Josh is on several occasions so this doesn't surprise me at all. More than once I saw someone ask Josh about a mistake they made building something and whether it would affect the performance or not and maybe asking for an extra bamboo skewer or bit of piano wire to fix a mistake - only to have Josh say "hold on a second" then come back a minute later with a full replacement quick build kit for them. That really drove home to me just how honest and genuine Josh's over the top "nice guy" appearance is and that it truly is a reflection of the kind of person he is and the vision he has for FT.

So thank you very much Josh for taking the time to address this personally! Listening to the last two podcasts (love the video format BTW - works much better for me as it fits right in with my YT subs instead of being somewhere else that I keep forgetting about because I have a 5 minute commute so never remember to look at podcasts to listen to at home.) I suspected we'd get a response similar to this as the issue of scratch builders was touched on a few times and seemed to foreshadow this reply.

I would love to see WR at DT and will definitely let my local stores know. I've been considering ordering a case but my budget is super tight and the shipping makes it tough. I've been talking to a few others locally about going in on a case together but it's yet to actually happen - though now that I have my needle cutter working reliably it's probably finally going to happen I know at least one person has talked to our LHS about getting a case - but like most LHS's they're having a hard time and he just can't take the risk right now even on that small of an investment

The FT store may not be the lowest prices around - but it's by far the best deal around and I've gotten more value out of my few purchases than any other vendor I've dealt with. I only wish I had a larger hobby budget so I could buy more goodies

WOW!

Thank you for the kind words and support! Truly want to get this in DG or DT and LHS. My thought with the LHS is to do a training program with them to host build nights and build tables. The new FTHQ will be a model of that. Build room, open flying for community, store, and tons of weekly family activities like movie on the hanger doors and night fly.

I want hobby shops to rethink how to get people into the hobby and make it a great experience! I truly think that will change the way LHS pay their bills.

I envision people from the FT Family running those stores in the future too! FT LHS!

Thanks again friend!
Josh

 

[CaptBill]

Josh,
Well done, thanks for sharing.
Grace and Peace

 

[Mid7night]

WOW!

Thank you for the kind words and support! Truly want to get this in DG or DT and LHS. My thought with the LHS is to do a training program with them to host build nights and build tables. The new FTHQ will be a model of that. Build room, open flying for community, store, and tons of weekly family activities like movie on the hanger doors and night fly.

I want hobby shops to rethink how to get people into the hobby and make it a great experience! I truly think that will change the way LHS pay their bills.

I envision people from the FT Family running those stores in the future too! FT LHS!

Thanks again friend!
Josh

Even if we can convince some LHS's to be open to an endcap of FT-WRFB, that would be a HUGE start, and a nice infection-vector.

With Hobby People (Southern CA local chain) closing down, we in So.Cal. are feeling a bit of a void, so there is potential opportunity. They're not closing due to lack of business; the founder passed away and the family basically wanted out.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Build nights at LHS's would be awesome.

It would get customers in the doors, build some loyalty, and even if you let them bring their own electronics, they'd forget something and buy it there.

 

[Kingbird]

Thank you Josh.

And to others in this forum this is why I have bought into the FT dream hook - line - and sinker. This guy and his team are the real deal. I'm glad this subject has been brought to the table for discussion. It is extremely important because I was and remain very concerned that this issue might threaten scratch-building. And scratch-building is part of the very foundation of FT.

I am in a service business and have employees too. We also have a dream about providing the very best possible service and communication to our customers. In fact, the importance of honest service and quality communications is at the core of every meeting we have and every decision we make. Something about treating people as we would want to be treated ourselves... hmmm... read that somewhere Josh, you are modeling that. Well done Brother and keep on keeping on.

I hope to see Adams step up as best they can and, better yet, start seeing your WR board in our local Hobby Town and DT. I'll mention it to the local managers next time I'm in their stores. I love the FT dream and I sincerely want to see you and your team continue to be a great success!

Doug Morse
Morse Termite & Pest Control
Clovis, CA

 

[TooJung2Die]

So far, so good...

This is great. Thank you Josh and Nic. For everything you are doing to build and maintain our hobby and the community. Flite Test is the reason I got back into building and flying airplanes after 40+ years. Adams Readi Board is a big reason I've stayed in it this long.

Getting ready for the next build. Since I had more paper delamination problems after painting with the new Adams foam board I decided to Minwax before building. I tend to use what's on hand so I used the product in the photo. It's probably my favorite wood finish. Thinner than brush-on Minwax poly, it was quick and easy to apply and wipe off the excess. As you can see in the photo, the color of the foam board after treatment was close to the old Adams foam board. The can is sitting on a sheet of untreated Adams foam board with a treated foam board in front. No warping of the foam board, in fact I think it's flatter than before treatment.

I have high hopes the Minwax poly treatment will mitigate the paper delamination issue. We will see how it takes paint on the Fokker DR1.
Jon

 

[nerdnic]

Hello FT Family and specifically Nic,

Speculation and half truths have been extended too far for my comfort on this post Nic. I would like to give you some hard facts to set the record straight.

We went exclusive WR for a few reasons.....

1.The favorable response from the FT WR foam was amazing

2.Humid, wet, snowy, and hot environments (florida, georgia, European community) were not capable of having the same great experience and longevity with original craft white ADAMS readiboard

3.We support over 20 amazing employees and their families at FliteTest.... plus our STEM development, 5 weekly shows (and growing to 6), give-aways, community and website development, and also funding some great add ons like simulators and higher quality plans. That is why we charge $15-$46 dollars for our kits that can be scratch built for under 10 bucks. The Community is now our primary sponsor and not HobbyKing or any other flight based company. That premium cost deserves a top shelf material that will last longer than one Dewey or damp day.

4. WR Foam is easier to paint without peeling and also enables us to do many other designs like the SeadDuck, otter, and maybe a cool new one in the near future Along with boats, ATV's, and hovercrafts.

5. We sold well over 40 to 1 WR foam planes compared to craft white on our store with amazing feedback!

6. The build experience, strength, and quality of WR FT foam is better than the craft white for model building.

Lets address your statement about FliteTest not caring about craft white Readiboard in the retail stores...

1. ADAMS is an amazing company with over 100 employees that is family run for 3 generations. I have personally toured and met with there team and the place is amazing! ADAMS Craft White Rediboard also serves other OEM brands (including other model aircraft companies). They give us a huge ear because they share our vision for flight and family. They have competitors like elmers and ross that they need to compete with. ADAMS needs to stay relevant in their industry and that may sometimes require making some changes like the paper on there foam. Those changes sadly may not fit our needs perfectly. FliteTest did not sign off on the foam.... Nor did ADAMS ever say that we did. You put that conclusion in yourself. ADAMS can not sacrifice there business for the FT community of scratch builders. If they did, we could possibly someday have no foam in stores to buy.

2. The efforts made by ADAMS to get their foam perfect is amazing! They check moisture content, heat, pressure, and many other things to get there craft white as perfect as possible. Still, sometimes things happen. I am as loyal to companies like ADAMS as I am to the community. Like this reply, I also share my thoughts and my heart on there product when I see issues. ADAMS is committed to constant improvement and I respect them for that.

3. Our designs are scratch built by the community roughly 30 to 1 from our free plans to our kits. Why on earth would we turn our back on that majority of builders? Look at the collaborative energy put into the plans, build videos, simulators, and the increased frequency of both. We want people to make memories and have a great experience in the hobby. We also want money to not be an issue.

I sense a hint from your message that we turned our back on the quality of Craft white in order to cause people to have to come to our store..... Wrong!

1. Right now both ADAMS and FliteTest are working hard to get the new FT WR foam into both Dollar Tree and Dollar General. Take a moment to think about that.... Flitetest is willing to release exclusivity and a large amount of store revenue, and ADAMS is willing to introduce a competing material to their classic Craft white to their largest foamboard customers. Nic, that is a HUGE Deal and should be a huge indicator of the heart of both FT and ADAMS.

2. If anyone wants to help with this... Please don't contact ADAMS, but talk to the managers of DT and DG. That is how the mandate will be known to the retail outlets


Nic, this is probably the most aggressive I have ever spoken to a great person from our community. Please know I take the values and foundation of Flitetest very seriously. Please feel free to reach out to me personally before making incorrect and provocative statements about FT and its values in the future. I am going to PM you my personal cell so you can call me for facts anytime. We look forward to releasing the FT Mig 3 and this March that was an awesome colaboration between NN and FT. We also plan to give links to your NN speed version on your own store to show you some love and revenue. FT wants to raise "all tides" in the hobby. I look forward to a closer relationship with you Nic, along with less misunderstandings.

I will do my best to be more proactive in threads like this. But it is so great to see great folks in the FT Family addressing it for me.

Happy Flying everyone!

Josh

Josh,

First, I want to thank you for taking the time to reply. However, I do apologize for the circumstances that prompted your engagement. I did draw my own conclusion as to who Adams was talking about when they told me 'Before going to market we did have this new paper tested by a big player in the RC community and we received very good feedback.' I filled in this blank incorrectly and assumed FT was this big player. That led to my hint of FTs abandonment of the white Readiboard. Josh, please know that my frustration is NOT with FT, but rather with the quality of the board this great community now has available. I hope you can forgive me for filling in the blanks and arriving at the incorrect conclusion. I appreciate your commitment to help set the record straight and I will be reaching out to you personally as you mentioned.

When I take a step back and look at what the foam board scratch build community has accomplished, it amazes me. The stories that the great individuals in this hobby share with me daily by email, private messages, and here on the forum is what blesses me most. It blows my mind what people are able to accomplish when they come together with a common goal and in love. At the end of the day this hobby is a pursuit of passion for me. I don't do what I do for the money. In fact, I'm scared to even begin calculating the level of red ink I'm in because I've pursued the community request to offer kits, and to continually develop more advanced aircraft. I give my all to this community and it's out of love, nothing else.

Josh, professionally I work in the most competitive job market in the world, right in the heart of Silicon Valley with the most aggressive and bleeding edge tech companies. With the little time I have away from my work I like to spend it with my family, and then, late into night when they are sleeping (as I should be too) I spend the rest of my waking hours designing planes and developing content for this great community. I don't have a camera man or crew, video editor, sound guy, content developers, web masters, co hosts, or even a budget. It's just me. I am nerdnicRC. FT gave me a spark for this hobby and the community so I persevered and figured out how to design foam board planes, somehow make hat cam video that looks decent, learned to edit videos, make kits, design a website, and all the other random things that I had to learn along the way. Josh, I put my all into this, everyday. I deeply want to see this hobby and community continue to grow and flourish.

I don't know if you afforded enough time to read this thread to its entirety but the quality of this new board is weighing heavily on me. I have done many tests and shared my results, the new board doesn't compare to the old. As it is, we are pushing the limits of foam board further and further. Spending more time, getting more performance, reaching more people and having more fun with a $10 build than anyone would have thought possible a few years ago. It's an amazing feeling to know something so great and such memories can be made from these common materials. Josh, the quality of this new board threatens the validity of all that. As you mentioned, you see huge numbers scratch build vs buy WR kits. If a scratch build that someone dumps their heart and soul into won't last as long, or hold up as well anymore, is it still worth the effort? Many already feel my designs take too much effort to build, so knowing they aren't gonna hold up as well anymore is very troubling to me.

Knowing that this new board is a lesser product takes the wind out of my sails and I honestly have never felt like quitting more than I do right now.

Bringing WR foam to Dollar Tree, LHS, etc is an amazing idea and I hope it becomes a reality soon. I agree that Adams has to keep their main product competitive and that a sole focus on just this great community's needs would be short sighted for them. So the prospect of making WR foam available locally is great news and I applaud your efforts.

I understand your post was primarily a response to my incorrect and provocative statements about FT and its values, but you didn't address the main point of this thread, and the heart of my frustration. A frustration that is shared by many in this community. WR foam being available locally is not a reality yet. So what can we do in the meantime to improve the quality of the board we all have available now?

Josh, I believe you when you say FT has not turned its back on the white Readiboard and the scratch builders who use this material, so how will you and FT help to address this with Adams?

Thank you again for taking the time, Josh. I look forward to your reply.

-Nic

 

[Josh Bixler]

Good Morning Nic,

Thank you for sharing your heart and your kind words. I feel for you with what you describe about your struggles and the struggles the FT Family may have with ADAMS Craft. FT ordered 90 cases of craft white on our last order arriving this week. I am having a few cases brought up to our shop to test some more. The foam in the center of the paper is the same foam as before. It is possible it was a batch mix issue and the brittle nature may no longer be an issue. As for the paper, I mentioned in my reply that energy toward that issue may not be energy well used. ADAMS needs to serve their larger customers that prefer the paper if they are to stay successful in the market. Rather than hurt our relationship with ADAMS, lets put feet to ground asking DT and DT to carry WR FT foam. It will not only be good for the builder, but also get more people into the FT Family because ADAMS will even advertise FT on the label. Water can wear down a rock over time, but it is far better to find a less resistant path. I will continue to stay in constant contact with ADAMS, but I would encourage you to stay positive about the hobby and all the great things you bring to it Nic. The volume of Foam the FT community buys may not be enough to turn the market. But, the voices of the FT community could be enough to introduce a better material to it. WR Foam introduced to DT and DG is more likely than getting a different paper on ADAMS Craft white. This would not only be huge for the community, but give a safer, stronger, and longer lasting material to the community to build from. It will also keep issues like this from popping up in the future.

I would strongly encourage the FT Family to go to DG and DT and ask them to carry WR foamboard manufactured by ADAMS. As Crafty Dan so well said, we do not give ADAMS business, the retailers do. We buy fro the Retailers so we need to speak to them.

Hope this raises your spirit Nic. I did PM you my number so call anytime when you are feeling down or discouraged.

Josh