Keno
Well-known member
David the pix that I sent you for the cutter is petty much based around Jasons design but I had to adapt it for the Emax Gt2215/09 I could provide that flywheel if desired
Ken
Cutting foam sheets... with a needle!
- Thread starter dkj4linux
- Start date
Ken
dkj4linux
Elite member
Thanks, Keno... that might be good candidate. Feel free to share it here or out on Thingiverse... I'm sure there'll be some interest.
Phoenix, if you can 3d print and adapt for the MPCNC mount (we can help with that), Edward Chew's ERC TimSav needle cutter might be your best bet. You could "borrow" just the cutter part (it borrowed from Jason's design, is very small/compact, easy to build, and seems to cut pretty well)... or, heck, build the whole machine -- for less than $200, shipped -- if you just need to cut foam. Here it is in action... and you can clearly see the similarity to Jason's cutter...
The cutter should work very well on the MPCNC if you choose to adapt it... and the BOM and all necessary assembly instructions are among the files on the TV link. In fact, I got one of the first KITS he shipped -- just to play around with -- and adapting it to MPCNC should be a snap. And this might be the "spur" I need to start messing with it again...
Phoenix, if you can 3d print and adapt for the MPCNC mount (we can help with that), Edward Chew's ERC TimSav needle cutter might be your best bet. You could "borrow" just the cutter part (it borrowed from Jason's design, is very small/compact, easy to build, and seems to cut pretty well)... or, heck, build the whole machine -- for less than $200, shipped -- if you just need to cut foam. Here it is in action... and you can clearly see the similarity to Jason's cutter...
The cutter should work very well on the MPCNC if you choose to adapt it... and the BOM and all necessary assembly instructions are among the files on the TV link. In fact, I got one of the first KITS he shipped -- just to play around with -- and adapting it to MPCNC should be a snap. And this might be the "spur" I need to start messing with it again...
Last edited:
dkj4linux
Elite member
Not yet entirely familiar with the needle cutter on Edward's machine (I've only built up the X and Y portions so far...), I rewatched parts 1A and 1B of his assembly videos, paying more attention this time. Listen carefully... he really does a nice job detailing the cutter head's construction and even details the needle's construction. It's all very straight-forward and pretty ingenious. Changing the backplate and pretty much ignoring the servo Z-lifting mechanism, these instructions would work very well... even for an adapted version for the MPCNC.
I suspect the biggest issue, we in the US might have (if we don't buy a kit...), is finding the metric parts, or appropriate US equivalents. All the bearings and washers need to be sized properly to insure the bearings rotate freely. I bit the bullet and ordered a large assortment of metric hardware a long time ago. We could probably up-size the design a little bit to use bearings and hardware that Jason used on his cutter... but again the design is so straight-forward, that really shouldn't be too much of the problem.
I'm gonna keep looking at it... something usually shakes out the more you look at it
-- David
I suspect the biggest issue, we in the US might have (if we don't buy a kit...), is finding the metric parts, or appropriate US equivalents. All the bearings and washers need to be sized properly to insure the bearings rotate freely. I bit the bullet and ordered a large assortment of metric hardware a long time ago. We could probably up-size the design a little bit to use bearings and hardware that Jason used on his cutter... but again the design is so straight-forward, that really shouldn't be too much of the problem.
I'm gonna keep looking at it... something usually shakes out the more you look at it
-- David
Last edited:
lostphoenix
New member
That is a pretty slick design. Having just printed Jason's mount, I'm going to see if I can find a motor that works and design my own flywheel. I got caught up on attaching the flywheel to the motor, but it looks like some hot glue works pretty well I've got an older multirotor that I built and i'm going to see if I can create a flywheel for it. The shaft may be too big though. I'll report back if I have any luck (or not)
I've got an older multirotor that I built and i'm going to see if I can create a flywheel for it. The shaft may be too big though. I'll report back if I have any luck (or not)
There are a lot of motors that will fit on mine, pretty much any "2212" motor can work on mine - but my flywheel was specifically designed to work with motors that have short/no shaft and have holes to screw a replaceable shaft onto them instead. The problem is motor available just changes too quickly to suggest any one particular motor. I suspect manufacturers don't seem to do multiple runs of the same motor anymore, just keep tweaking the designs and re-releasing them based on what's popular currently.
But there's no reason you couldn't use a different flywheel - like David's original, or the newer styles that go over the motor - with a motor that doesn't have those holes. I just found them to be a handy and reliable way to mount the flywheel.
But there's no reason you couldn't use a different flywheel - like David's original, or the newer styles that go over the motor - with a motor that doesn't have those holes. I just found them to be a handy and reliable way to mount the flywheel.
dkj4linux
Elite member
Thanks, Jason. My initial thoughts, having purchased Edward's machine, was to redesign the needle cutter to incorporate the slip-on (over-the-motor-bell) flywheel I used on my latest cutters. But just now, while building up Edward's cutter and flywheel... while I could shorten the overall "cantilever" length and get away from the around-the-outer-race needle loops, it's already such a small cutter assembly, it doesn't seem worth the effort. Also, folks are spinning Edward's flywheel up to 8500 rpm and faster, and it seems to run quite smoothly... and he's hand-forming needles (I've ordered the looping pliers he recommends) that seem to be staying in place for most folks, just by their friction fit. So, I'm inclined right now to just go with his basic cutter and flywheel design and just adapt the backplate to the MPCNC tool mount. -- David
EDIT: BTW these bearing and washers are so small... I see the biggest hurdle for me is my shakiness. I'm having a dickens of a time... definitely need to be using tweezers, as he does in his videos.
EDIT: BTW these bearing and washers are so small... I see the biggest hurdle for me is my shakiness. I'm having a dickens of a time... definitely need to be using tweezers, as he does in his videos.
Last edited:
lostphoenix
New member
I'm in luck! Apparently, the motors did have an attachable shaft that I forgot about. The downside is that they're too short (2209) so I'll have to model a new mount and a new flywheel (three screws instead of four). Jason, do you have a link to the onshape file for your 525 mount? I didn't see that on thingiverse. Thanks for all your help guys.
Attachments
Airkaos
Member
@dkj4linux
Hello David, I found an old laptop, and have always wanted to try my hand at Linux, so am gonna try and put it on there and learn a little linux.
My question is, are you running inkscape and the grbl controller in linux, or do you have a windows pc you use for that??
Hello David, I found an old laptop, and have always wanted to try my hand at Linux, so am gonna try and put it on there and learn a little linux.
My question is, are you running inkscape and the grbl controller in linux, or do you have a windows pc you use for that??
dkj4linux
Elite member
I really don't do windows... it's pretty much Linux all the way for me. In fact, the newer Chromebooks have become my weapon of choice
I couldn't always say that but with so many brower-based, cloud applications these days... thankfully, I can say that today. There are still some applications that are pretty much Windows-only... but I'll avoid them if there's a suitable alternative or I can get it to run under Wine, if I've absolutely really got to have it. Inkscape is great... don't use GrblController... do use CNC.js and Octoprint running on Pi (which serves up a webpage over wifi) and control it all through Chrome browser on my everyday laptop. @jeffeb3, over on the V1Engineering/MPCNC site put together a really neat V1Pi image with Octoprint and CNC.js preinstalled... that's easily my preference now.
It depends really on what you plan to do in the way of "learning a little linux". Are you doing general desktop stuff... or you wanna drill down deep and do a bunch of command line stuff? I personally use Linux Mint 19 (currently) on my regular laptops, for a trouble- and hassle-free desktop experience... and drop to the command line only occasionally when I want to know what's going on or want to avoid GUI overhead for a lengthy task. Chromebooks have gotten so good though, with Linux capability, that I'm now using them more and more.
You can actually start a "holy war", of course, asking some folks about which distro or desktop they prefer... but in this day and age of cheap[er] hardware and high-performance, I see no need to wrestle with light-weight distros or desktops... unless I'm playing with out-dated, lower-spec, hardware. So, it'll depend a bit on that "old laptop" you have as to whether you can run a snappy Mint desktop... but if "old" to you is anything in the last 10 years, I'd give it a go. Any old Dell is always a Linux winner...
I couldn't always say that but with so many brower-based, cloud applications these days... thankfully, I can say that today. There are still some applications that are pretty much Windows-only... but I'll avoid them if there's a suitable alternative or I can get it to run under Wine, if I've absolutely really got to have it. Inkscape is great... don't use GrblController... do use CNC.js and Octoprint running on Pi (which serves up a webpage over wifi) and control it all through Chrome browser on my everyday laptop. @jeffeb3, over on the V1Engineering/MPCNC site put together a really neat V1Pi image with Octoprint and CNC.js preinstalled... that's easily my preference now.
It depends really on what you plan to do in the way of "learning a little linux". Are you doing general desktop stuff... or you wanna drill down deep and do a bunch of command line stuff? I personally use Linux Mint 19 (currently) on my regular laptops, for a trouble- and hassle-free desktop experience... and drop to the command line only occasionally when I want to know what's going on or want to avoid GUI overhead for a lengthy task. Chromebooks have gotten so good though, with Linux capability, that I'm now using them more and more.
You can actually start a "holy war", of course, asking some folks about which distro or desktop they prefer... but in this day and age of cheap[er] hardware and high-performance, I see no need to wrestle with light-weight distros or desktops... unless I'm playing with out-dated, lower-spec, hardware. So, it'll depend a bit on that "old laptop" you have as to whether you can run a snappy Mint desktop... but if "old" to you is anything in the last 10 years, I'd give it a go. Any old Dell is always a Linux winner...
Last edited:
Airkaos
Member
I really don't do windows... it's pretty much Linux all the way for me. In fact, the newer Chromebooks have become my weapon of choice
I couldn't always say that but with so many brower-based, cloud applications these days... thankfully, I can say that today. There are still some applications that are pretty much Windows-only... but I'll avoid them if there's a suitable alternative or I can get it to run under Wine, if I've absolutely really got to have it. Inkscape is great... don't use GrblController... do use CNC.js and Octoprint running on Pi (which serves up a webpage over wifi) and control it all through Chrome browser on my everyday laptop. @jeffeb3, over on the V1Engineering/MPCNC site put together a really neat V1Pi image with Octoprint and CNC.js preinstalled... that's easily my preference now.
It depends really on what you plan to do in the way of "learning a little linux". Are you doing general desktop stuff... or you wanna drill down deep and do a bunch of command line stuff? I personally use Linux Mint 19 (currently) on my regular laptops, for a trouble- and hassle-free desktop experience... and drop to the command line only occasionally when I want to know what's going on or want to avoid GUI overhead for a lengthy task. Chromebooks have gotten so good though, with Linux capability, that I'm now using them more and more.
You can actually start a "holy war", of course, asking some folks about which distro or desktop they prefer... but in this day and age of cheap[er] hardware and high-performance, I see no need to wrestle with light-weight distros or desktops... unless I'm playing with out-dated, lower-spec, hardware. So, it'll depend a bit on that "old laptop" you have as to whether you can run a snappy Mint desktop... but if "old" to you is anything in the last 10 years, I'd give it a go. Any old Dell is always a Linux winner...
it's an old dell inspiron that I gave my son 5 or 6 years ago on christmas, I loaded linux mint on it today and am trying to get around it, my main purpose would be for desktop normal stuff, am not very good on the techie side, and since this laptop only has a 32g hard drive, I figured it would be enough for me to learn some. and follow a couple of youtube videos to learn a little.
But would like to also use it for edwards timsav, I have octoprint runing on a 3d printer and also use it through the web browser, it makes things a lot easier, but I would need a raspberry and a couple of other things to run it on he timsav.
i'll have to keep looking to see if I can run the timsav with this.
dkj4linux
Elite member
You can run it okay with the Dell... there are plenty of sender programs out there that'll run on Linux. I just got a couple more Pi 3b+ from Adafruit for $35 each, about $45 after shipping. Not cheap, but not terribly expensive either. A bit slow but usable... a Pi ZeroW can aslo be used for $10 or thereabouts. The Pi's have wifi built-in...
I built my TimSav and have it running (didn't really need another foam-cutter... just messing with the machine) with CNC.js on Pi and my browser. I have other machines as well -- MPCNC, FoamRipper, TimSav, T8 MIni-mill, Eleksmaker A3 w/ laser, Z-axis, etc. -- and they all run fine with the same setup. It's really convenient and I highly recommend it.
I built my TimSav and have it running (didn't really need another foam-cutter... just messing with the machine) with CNC.js on Pi and my browser. I have other machines as well -- MPCNC, FoamRipper, TimSav, T8 MIni-mill, Eleksmaker A3 w/ laser, Z-axis, etc. -- and they all run fine with the same setup. It's really convenient and I highly recommend it.
You could just make a thicker flywheel, or add a spacer behind the motor, no need to change the whole mount.
The onshape project is linked near the bottom of the thingiverse page, the flywheel is in there (might even have two or three variants I havne't looked at that project in over a year): https://cad.onshape.com/documents/0...6d54be94a0c0fb03df/e/6104b1396ce31afa164ac429
lostphoenix
New member
I followed that link but I don't see the part that uses the new mount (3 mounting holes on each side). I'll probably end up doing a spacer, but thought it may be worth reworking the mount to be a little smaller.
Are you guys using just PLA or have you printed some parts in other materials? I've seen some comments about PLA getting too soft with heat but I wasn't sure if that was a concern or an actual problem people are experiencing.
lostphoenix
New member
Nevermind, I just found it. Didn't realize it was a different version. Your onshape skills are way better than mine. Can you explain the mesh that's imported at the beginning of your flywheel model?
Can you explain the mesh that's imported at the beginning of your flywheel model?
Yeah, the flywheel should be the same in any of the versions...but the mount was done as a different version. The versions are a mess on this one...I was just starting to experiment with versioning in OnShape and honestly it still confuses me sometimes
The mesh that was imported was David's original flywheel that I based mine on. I just used it as a reference instead of taking measurements. I basically just used it to recreate his design - but left off the shaft mount and instead added the indent to fit over the "nose" of my motor and the holes for the screws that mount it to the motor.
The mesh that was imported was David's original flywheel that I based mine on. I just used it as a reference instead of taking measurements. I basically just used it to recreate his design - but left off the shaft mount and instead added the indent to fit over the "nose" of my motor and the holes for the screws that mount it to the motor.
dkj4linux
Elite member
Don't know how I missed it, but I've just discovered that our own Michael763 has already remixed Jason's improved cutter to use the same Emax CF2822 motor I've always used. Take a look if still interested... remix of Jason's improved cutter.That is a pretty slick design. Having just printed Jason's mount, I'm going to see if I can find a motor that works and design my own flywheel. I got caught up on attaching the flywheel to the motor, but it looks like some hot glue works pretty well
dkj4linux
Elite member
With the popularity of Edward Chew's ERC TimSav foam cutter machine growing rapidly... his needle cutter remix/design IMO might be the most likely candidate for a new "standard" cutter. He's borrowed from proven designs, documented it extremely well in both written form and video, used parts that are readily available online, and the number of cutters being built and the planes now being cut serves as evidence that it works quite well. And with @lostphoenix recent request for a recommendation, it seems there's no time like the present...
I've spent a couple of days looking at adapting Edward's design to MPCNC... a no-brainer in my mind. Spending more time than I'd like to admit in Tinkercad, here's my initial attempts...
I'm still a bit leery -- I've yet to build up the flywheel -- but it appears that Edward has figured everything out closely enough that 8500 rpm is the recommended cutter speed for use with his machine... and he's getting it with minimal "fiddling" to achieve the balance required. It does use the over-the-outer-race needle setup that been so problematic for folks in the past but he's personally cranking out needles to add to the kit (3 needles per kit) of parts he's selling... using some inexpensive "looping" pliers, designed a jig to cut the needle to length, documented the entire process with a video, and it seems to be working. So how hard can it be?
Pretty impressive IMO and Edward's documentation is like we've never seen... so I'm excited to start down this path to a "standard" cutter design.
Thoughts?
-- David
I've spent a couple of days looking at adapting Edward's design to MPCNC... a no-brainer in my mind. Spending more time than I'd like to admit in Tinkercad, here's my initial attempts...
I'm still a bit leery -- I've yet to build up the flywheel -- but it appears that Edward has figured everything out closely enough that 8500 rpm is the recommended cutter speed for use with his machine... and he's getting it with minimal "fiddling" to achieve the balance required. It does use the over-the-outer-race needle setup that been so problematic for folks in the past but he's personally cranking out needles to add to the kit (3 needles per kit) of parts he's selling... using some inexpensive "looping" pliers, designed a jig to cut the needle to length, documented the entire process with a video, and it seems to be working. So how hard can it be?
Pretty impressive IMO and Edward's documentation is like we've never seen... so I'm excited to start down this path to a "standard" cutter design.
Thoughts?
-- David
lostphoenix
New member
@dkj4linux That is some great documentation. Of course I already have @jhitesma's mount printed and I spend some time yesterday modeling a flywheel and motor extension. Should have waited another month I could have built a much smaller machine Is Edward's design parametric? It'd be great if whatever the "standard" became had simple docs on how to use your own motor. I imagine a lot of people building these will have motors on hand they want to use instead of having to buy a new one just for the cutter.
If I can't get the mount working that I've already printed, I may give this one a try. How hard is balancing the flywheel?
Is Edward's design parametric? It'd be great if whatever the "standard" became had simple docs on how to use your own motor. I imagine a lot of people building these will have motors on hand they want to use instead of having to buy a new one just for the cutter. If I can't get the mount working that I've already printed, I may give this one a try. How hard is balancing the flywheel?
dkj4linux
Elite member
I think you've answered your own question... having printed Jason's cutter body and then found it difficult to source the same motor he used, you've had to spend time trying to adapt the flywheel and motor mount to another motor. Without a "standard", readily available, motor -- in the right KV range and having the proper dimensions -- to recommend, everybody would be saddled with coming up with their own cutter body.
One of the neat and novel things about Edward's design is that he's flattened all the parts and used CA to construct a very compact cutter. Being flat, all the parts are easy and quick to print, could easily be laser-cut (or other), and the alignment of parts is quite good... in those pictures of my adapted cutter, it hasn't even been glued up yet. And his cutter uses inexpensive components that he's carefully selected and that are readily sourced online... though ordering online will probably be a necessary requirement for folks in the US that don't have a good stock of metric hardware. And please note that properly selected hardware is especially critical for the flywheel's balance... for smooth operation at the required rpm for needle cutting.
Virtually any motor could be used, of course, for needle-cutting... the power requirements are minimal and don't come close to the load a motor will see when mounted on a plane and turning a prop. But something about 1000KV seems to work best in this application, giving suitable rpms for our rather crude cutter mechanism, and being easier to adjust for an appropriate cutter speed than higher rpm motors. I'm certainly a proponent of using what you have on hand for a "one-off" for my own use but with the relatively low-cost of suitable components and the expectation that folks are going to try to duplicate your work... it's important IMHO to specify a suitable motor that's both inexpensive and easily sourced, anywhere in the world.
I can't begin to tell you how many times someone has popped in here and asked for a recommendation for a needle cutter design... as you, yourself, did IIRC. And, until now, I've usually pointed them to Jason's (@jhitesma) cutter. But with Jason's motor now difficult to find and Edward's timely contributions being made public, I'm all for seeing if we can finally settle on a proven design we can highly recommend to new needle-cutter builders/users.
-- David
One of the neat and novel things about Edward's design is that he's flattened all the parts and used CA to construct a very compact cutter. Being flat, all the parts are easy and quick to print, could easily be laser-cut (or other), and the alignment of parts is quite good... in those pictures of my adapted cutter, it hasn't even been glued up yet. And his cutter uses inexpensive components that he's carefully selected and that are readily sourced online... though ordering online will probably be a necessary requirement for folks in the US that don't have a good stock of metric hardware. And please note that properly selected hardware is especially critical for the flywheel's balance... for smooth operation at the required rpm for needle cutting.
Virtually any motor could be used, of course, for needle-cutting... the power requirements are minimal and don't come close to the load a motor will see when mounted on a plane and turning a prop. But something about 1000KV seems to work best in this application, giving suitable rpms for our rather crude cutter mechanism, and being easier to adjust for an appropriate cutter speed than higher rpm motors. I'm certainly a proponent of using what you have on hand for a "one-off" for my own use but with the relatively low-cost of suitable components and the expectation that folks are going to try to duplicate your work... it's important IMHO to specify a suitable motor that's both inexpensive and easily sourced, anywhere in the world.
I can't begin to tell you how many times someone has popped in here and asked for a recommendation for a needle cutter design... as you, yourself, did IIRC. And, until now, I've usually pointed them to Jason's (@jhitesma) cutter. But with Jason's motor now difficult to find and Edward's timely contributions being made public, I'm all for seeing if we can finally settle on a proven design we can highly recommend to new needle-cutter builders/users.
-- David
Last edited:
Keno
Well-known member
This is my needle cutter it designed like others an adapted to be used with a Emax 2215/09 motor. I also use different guide bearing. Anyway just thought I see what I am using. Happy building.
Edit: Here are the STL files. For info: I use 2-10mm X 3mm bore bearing in line to support the needle axle. The guide bearings are skate board 12mm 2mm deep V. I use a .8mm/0.03" needle. Also not shown is a heatsink (small) you can found on Amazon. Drill a hole using heat conductive adhesive glue to the wire feed nozzle. Hardware to mount the motor to flywheel is cap head 2.5mm screws.
Edit: Here are the STL files. For info: I use 2-10mm X 3mm bore bearing in line to support the needle axle. The guide bearings are skate board 12mm 2mm deep V. I use a .8mm/0.03" needle. Also not shown is a heatsink (small) you can found on Amazon. Drill a hole using heat conductive adhesive glue to the wire feed nozzle. Hardware to mount the motor to flywheel is cap head 2.5mm screws.
Attachments
Last edited:
Similar threads
