Any upside to using "better" foamboard?

[daved20319]

Been away from RC for several years, and working on my first foamboard build, an FT Simple Stick. Not knowing that there was a big difference in foamboard, and forgetting that there was a Dollar Tree 30 miles away, I ordered a box from Amazon, turned out to be Elmer's brand FB. Got the plane mostly built, but couldn't figure out why it was so much heavier than FT said it should be, I'm close to 900 grams without battery. Got some DTFB, and the mystery is solved, 112 grams/sheet vs. 244 explains a lot. Other than heavy, the plane came out fine, and I'm sure it will fly just fine, as long as I can keep the loose nut on the sticks under control.

Which brings me back to my subject. Is there any advantage to the heavier FB? It seems stronger and stiffer, and the paper does NOT want to come off the foam, so delaminating won't be an issue. Other than weight, not being able to peel the paper off can be an issue, I want to build the FT Bronco next, and making that nose with the Elmer's is probably out of the question. Would a hybrid be a good idea? Use the DTFB for most of the build, but sub in the Elmer's for stuff like wing spars, or anything that would benefit from the extra strength and stiffness. And based on the rule that it didn't happen without pics, here she is, mostly complete:

Anyway, planning on building another Simple Stick using DTFB, my goal is something that'll fly slow, and for that, it needs to go on a diet! Later, and thanks.

Dave

 

[SlingShot]

Been away from RC for several years, and working on my first foamboard build, an FT Simple Stick. Not knowing that there was a big difference in foamboard, and forgetting that there was a Dollar Tree 30 miles away, I ordered a box from Amazon, turned out to be Elmer's brand FB. Got the plane mostly built, but couldn't figure out why it was so much heavier than FT said it should be, I'm close to 900 grams without battery. Got some DTFB, and the mystery is solved, 112 grams/sheet vs. 244 explains a lot. Other than heavy, the plane came out fine, and I'm sure it will fly just fine, as long as I can keep the loose nut on the sticks under control.

Which brings me back to my subject. Is there any advantage to the heavier FB? It seems stronger and stiffer, and the paper does NOT want to come off the foam, so delaminating won't be an issue. Other than weight, not being able to peel the paper off can be an issue, I want to build the FT Bronco next, and making that nose with the Elmer's is probably out of the question. Would a hybrid be a good idea? Use the DTFB for most of the build, but sub in the Elmer's for stuff like wing spars, or anything that would benefit from the extra strength and stiffness. And based on the rule that it didn't happen without pics, here she is, mostly complete:

View attachment 234152

Anyway, planning on building another Simple Stick using DTFB, my goal is something that'll fly slow, and for that, it needs to go on a diet! Later, and thanks.

Dave

Nothing wrong with the hybrid plan. And I've built a lot with heavier foamboard.

The only problem I've discovered with the heavier stuff, apart from difficulty removing the paper, is when I cover the whole thing with colored packing tape. In that case, performance suffers due to the weight.

 

[Mr NCT]

Been away from RC for several years, and working on my first foamboard build, an FT Simple Stick. Not knowing that there was a big difference in foamboard, and forgetting that there was a Dollar Tree 30 miles away, I ordered a box from Amazon, turned out to be Elmer's brand FB. Got the plane mostly built, but couldn't figure out why it was so much heavier than FT said it should be, I'm close to 900 grams without battery. Got some DTFB, and the mystery is solved, 112 grams/sheet vs. 244 explains a lot. Other than heavy, the plane came out fine, and I'm sure it will fly just fine, as long as I can keep the loose nut on the sticks under control.

Which brings me back to my subject. Is there any advantage to the heavier FB? It seems stronger and stiffer, and the paper does NOT want to come off the foam, so delaminating won't be an issue. Other than weight, not being able to peel the paper off can be an issue, I want to build the FT Bronco next, and making that nose with the Elmer's is probably out of the question. Would a hybrid be a good idea? Use the DTFB for most of the build, but sub in the Elmer's for stuff like wing spars, or anything that would benefit from the extra strength and stiffness. And based on the rule that it didn't happen without pics, here she is, mostly complete:

View attachment 234152

Anyway, planning on building another Simple Stick using DTFB, my goal is something that'll fly slow, and for that, it needs to go on a diet! Later, and thanks.

Dave

I built a simple cub with the heavier foam board and since I didn't know any better it flew fine. I had to move the battery all the way forward for CG and it was a little faster than the next one that I built out of DTFB but had no problems. It was nice being able to buy yellow foam board and not have to paint or skin it.

 

[Inq]

@daved20319,

I'm new to foamboard construction (about 4 planes now) and re-learning to fly so take this as mere opinion. In a crash... the stronger foam board will fare no better. On the other side, any plane will fly better if it is lighter and possibly avoid that crash. About the only upside I can think of is it might be able to create a larger span wing using the same techniques. For instance - you might take the Simple Storch at 60" and scale it up say 120% using the exact same technique and not have to resort to wood, fiberglass or carbon spars. And just for how strong the DTFB is... there's a video of a Spitfire doing 115 mph and pulling serious G's.

IMO, save money AND make a lighter, better flyer.

 

[Aslansmonkey]

When I first started out we used foamboard from Walmart and Michaels. All the heavier stuff. Weight is the primary issue. It takes more weight forward to balance properly with the extra weight you put on the back. Also, the plane needs more speed to fly. As I was just starting out I crashed...a lot.

I don't think there is a significant improvement in strength with the heavier stuff either. I mean, there probably is a LITTLE, but the performance loss isn't worth the weight in my opinion. Especially if you can get the DT stuff easily.

All the designs I've seen are based on the lighter foamboard, so you will have trouble balancing anything made with the heavier stuff.

 

[Merv]

...Is there any advantage to the heavier FB?...

Yes, if heavy fb is all you got, then use it. I'm a big proponent of use what you have.

But if you have a choice, use lighter weight fb, with planes, lighter is better. Adams fb from dollar tree, Ross fb from walmart, Brown or Maker fb from FT, they will all make a great plane. Even corrugated cardboard, from an old box will make a great flying plane.

Use what you got on hand. Don't let the prefect be the enemy of the good.

 

[danskis]

I noticed that on your motor pod lying on the workbench that it might not be taped i.e. no tape wrapping from the sides over the plywood. If it is great and if not you need to tape it or run some wood behind it. Ask me how I know.

 

[Inq]

Don't let the prefect be the enemy of the good.

I got to remember that quote!

 

[Foamforce]

I built my two one with Walmart (Ross) foam board because I didn’t know any better. Fortunately, my first one was a Storch, which is known for having very light wing loading, so I managed. I crashed a lot too. It was a bit of a pig and it didn’t help that I only had a B pack motor on it. That’s what was listed on the plans as the minimum, but it didn’t help that I was lugging an extra few hundred grams around! I flew it and started learning on it, but it wasn’t very forgiving.

Then I built a Delta out of the Ross stuff, and that plane was VERY unforgiving with the extra weight. I could barely keep that in the air and it was only due to stubbornness and the indestructibility of that plane that I managed to fly it. Later, I built a new Delta with DTFB to see the difference for myself and it was night and day. Now it’s a gentle easy flyer.

So about the advantages. The Ross foam board looks so much better! The DTFB gets all wrinkled and dented even before you finish assembly. It’s just so soft. I’m now very careful to clean any surface that my plane is one while I’m building it, because if there’s so much as a tiny bit of foam on the surface, and you lay your new plane on it while you’re working, it will leave dents. In contrast, the Ross foam board in my Storch looks so pretty and smooth even after months of mistreatment. Except for the nose wrinkles of course. Fwiw, the brown FTFB is in between the two. I just bought a big box of the white FTFB and it seems at least as tough as the brown stuff.

 

[daved20319]

I noticed that on your motor pod lying on the workbench that it might not be taped i.e. no tape wrapping from the sides over the plywood. If it is great and if not you need to tape it or run some wood behind it. Ask me how I know.

Both are taped, just clear packing tape, I didn't have any strapping tape on hand at the time. Thanks for asking, though, and thank to all of you for your responses. As to issues getting the CG right with the heavier FB, you got that right! With pretty much everything crowded as far forward as possible, and with the big wheels installed, the CG is just barely okay, but it doesn't take much shifting around for it to go tail heavy. Without the landing gear installed, it's WAY tail heavy, 4 200 gr. .45 cal. bullets (~52 g.) get it level with the CG at 3" from the LE. Doesn't look like I'll be flying it without the landing gear.

So fast forward a few hours, computer booted me, then had to take care of my chickens and fix dinner. In the meantime, I've started another Simple Stick using the DTFB. Got the wing done, even though I extended the lower wing section and squared the whole thing off, it's over 150 g. lighter than my other wing. Since I can't fly right now anyway, I may just set my first one aside for now and focus on the new build with the DTFB. Again, I appreciate all the responses, and I'll keep ya'll posted. Later.

Dave

 

[Merv]

...but it doesn't take much shifting around for it to go tail heavy...

You can always cut some holes in the tail to lighten. If you put them in the bottom, no one will even know they are there.

 

[Tench745]

I have built some hybrid planes before. If I have heavier board I like to use it for structural things; spars, motor pods, landing gear mounts, etc. and I try to keep the weight forward when I can. Then use the light stuff for the large surface-area parts like wing skins and fuselage skins.