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Bushwacker Flight time length census?

#1
Hello.. I'm building a FT precut Bushwacker for the first time and using a C-Pack from Flite Test. I was looking around online and trying to get an idea of what to expect prior to building the plane so I could avoid any pitfalls and have a successful build from the get go. I loved the promo vid for the Bushwacker showing Peter and Josh flying the plan in 3D style and also simply out and about as a cruiser.
I want the option of 3D flight, but even more so just aerobatic at will with occasional hoover here and there.
Mostly, I just want to cruise around, land with flaps/flapperons in super slow, super short landings and take-offs, and get at least 10-12 mins of flight out of screwing around.

1. So what are others getting for flight times out there using what kind of set up?
Motor, Prop, Batt, and style of flying = flight time?????

2. Also if you want to share any info on plane improvements that led to longer flight time and/or better handling.
3. Should I use flapperons or should I use the separate flaps/ailerons?



Right now electronics I plan to use are:
1.Motor - EMax GT2215/10 (1100kV) with 10x4.5 prop or Firepower 480 Sport (3530-11), 480 class, 260 watt, 960kv with 10x5 prop
(I'm unsure which motor would be best?)
2.ESC - EMax BLHeli 30A ESC with a Castle Creations BEC (https://www.amainhobbies.com/castle-creations-10-amp-adjustable-bec-cse010-0004-00/p18210)
3.BATT- 3S 1800mAh 11.1V 45C
4.Futuba 6J Tx & R2006GS Rx

depending on how CG works out I'll add a nose spinner to help add weight to front if I need it and/or solid foam dupro wheels.

Throw some knowledge at me... thanks!
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
#2
I've never flown the Bushwacker. From what I've seen and read though, a ten to twelve minute flight time is pretty ambitious. That sort of flight time with an electric, foamboard plane is generally achieved by gliding a lot.

I'm still new to RC flying and I may be totally incorrect. My understanding is that with our current technology, RC aircraft use LiPo's because they maintain a steady voltage for the life of the charge. 3.7 volts per cell, stack them up to get higher voltage. The bigger they are the higher the amperage they carry, which would equate to longer flight times. But now they weigh more. Weight is bad.

I'm really pushing my limited knowledge-base, but it seems like if you want to maximize flight time you want a really big wingspan, find a thermal and ride it, power up when you have to, and leave the motor off while you are gliding. A powered glider.

Ten to twelve minutes! It's all I can do to keep my heart in my chest for six! :)
 
#3
You might be right or maybe I’m just lucky. I have a FT simple cub with flight pack B and a sparrow with flight pack A.
The cub has mods making it slightly heavier than original build and with the provided motor and battery that comes with the kit I easily get between 10 - 12 minutes of normal flight. That’s about 1/2 to 3/4 throttle, three or four landings and flying in very light wind if any. If I push it harder it more like 9 minutes. I use a stop watch to manage my time and a battery checker between landing to assess my voltage. It kinda set the bar as what I should expect from electric for me.
Battery is 3S 1300 45C with 20amp esc. EMAX 2213-935 Is the motor size. It’s swinging a 09x4.5 slow fly prop.
So I’m hoping I can get similar performance from bushwhacker set-up.
That’s why im
Asking for others set up if they have this plane and have had good luck with it.
Had glider a while back also. Could fly for 30-40 minutes chasing thermals. 🙂
 
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Spacefarer

Active member
#4
I'm getting a flight time of about 13 minutes using a B pack motor (from when the scout was released) and a 2200 mAh battery. The esc is just a standard 20 amp and the servos are the regular flite test servos. I don't use flaps for anything but landing and taking off on these flights. My nose is weighed down by 7 washers and I fly at around half throttle for most of the flight. My suggestion is to ditch the back half of the power pod as it's entirely unnecessary if you ensure that your glue joint is secure back to the big hole in the middle of the electronics tray. I use flaps and no flapperons but my ailerons are slightly angled up by default. I don't know why, but this seems to improve my flight time.
 

Headbang

Well-known member
#5
Flying very slow and easy you might get those flight times with that battery and motor. Same motor and 2200mAh on a mig-3 I get 6 or 7mins. Slow and easy I pushed up to 10min.
Explorer with sport wing on same motor and 2200mAh pack I got 8min, 12min slow and easy. With a 3200mAh pack I got almost 20min with a few maneuvers tossed in.
I would expect with a 1800mAh pack you can expect 6 or 7min, 10 if you kept the throttle around half.

My quick and dirty but surprising accurate formula is capacity in amps of battery divided by max amp draw with current prop times 60 seconds times 2 to account for an average of half throttle.

So if you draw say 22amps max on the bench (that is my tested static draw with a 10x4.5 prop on a c pack motor) with a 1800mAh battery. 1.8/22*60*2=9.81min
 
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basslord1124

Well-known member
#6
I have a Bushwacker kit too, but still in the package. Managing throttle is probably one of the key things to improving flight time. I'd do this first before you start making decisions on what you can modify. Because really we can only "estimate" with the numbers...getting out there and trying it with your flying style is what will give you the results. I do think that most FT recommended specs do aim at trying to get you pretty good flight times for their models..."good" meaning a little better than 6-7 minutes. I think 10-12 minutes "may" be a stretch but try it with your setup and see. If you are a little short on time you might be able to bump the 1800MAh to a 2200Mah (a common FT recommended battery) and gain some extra time that way without sacrificing too much. It'd be really cool if you could find a 2200 for the same weight as your 1800. Sometimes you can get lucky with things like that from battery manufacturers....you just gotta shop around.

Now, just some food for thought, I have heard some folks around say that for the best 3D performance out of the Bushwacker they were better off with 4S instead of 3S, so IF you plan on going more the 3D route you may want to investigate that.
 

Headbang

Well-known member
#7
For 3d you go less cells, larger prop, low pitch. For faster planes you go more cells, smaller prop, higher pitch.
Think of 3d like a tractor. You dont need speed, but you do need that low end grunt torque. You rarely hit full throttle while flying 3d, it is all about moving air over the control surfaces and having as much static thrust as possible. Goal is to have a 1:1 thrust to wieght ratio at half throttle. You need to move a large volume of air, but it does not need to move quickly.
 
#8
Flying very slow and easy you might get those flight times with that battery and motor. Same motor and 2200mAh on a mig-3 I get 6 or 7mins. Slow and easy I pushed up to 10min.
Explorer with sport wing on same motor and 2200mAh pack I got 8min, 12min slow and easy. With a 3200mAh pack I got almost 20min with a few maneuvers tossed in.
I would expect with a 1800mAh pack you can expect 6 or 7min, 10 if you kept the throttle around half.

My quick and dirty but surprising accurate formula is capacity in amps of battery divided by max amp draw with current prop times 60 seconds times 2 to account for an average of half throttle.

So if you draw say 22amps max on the bench (that is my tested static draw with a 10x4.5 prop on a c pack motor) with a 1800mAh battery. 1.8/22*60*2=9.81min
Excellent info... that's perfect for a quick estimation... which is all I'm looking for.. I know there are always too many variables but getting an idea of what to expect so I'm not disappointed or blindsided by instant loss of power is good to have..
Thanks for the Tip!
-J
 
#9
For 3d you go less cells, larger prop, low pitch. For faster planes you go more cells, smaller prop, higher pitch.
Think of 3d like a tractor. You dont need speed, but you do need that low end grunt torque. You rarely hit full throttle while flying 3d, it is all about moving air over the control surfaces and having as much static thrust as possible. Goal is to have a 1:1 thrust to wieght ratio at half throttle. You need to move a large volume of air, but it does not need to move quickly.
Got it... makes sense...
 

Bricks

Well-known member
#12
For 3d you go less cells, larger prop, low pitch. For faster planes you go more cells, smaller prop, higher pitch.
Think of 3d like a tractor. You dont need speed, but you do need that low end grunt torque. You rarely hit full throttle while flying 3d, it is all about moving air over the control surfaces and having as much static thrust as possible. Goal is to have a 1:1 thrust to wieght ratio at half throttle. You need to move a large volume of air, but it does not need to move quickly.
You cannot really say this as dropping number of cells produce less power each airframe is different. With lower cell count you get a slower throttle response and less power for the those oops moments. For good 3D you want at LEAST 1.5 - 1 most 3D`rs shoot for a 2-1 thrust to weight ratio.
 

Merv

Well-known member
#13
Right now electronics I plan to use are:
1.Motor - EMax GT2215/10 (1100kV) with 10x4.5 prop or Firepower 480 Sport (3530-11), 480 class, 260 watt, 960kv with 10x5 prop
(I'm unsure which motor would be best?)
I think I would go with the lower Kv motor if you wanted to 3D. It may be able to take a larger prop than 10x5.
I'm using a Turnigy 3730 1000Kv with a 12x3.8 SF prop on my FT3D with excellent results. Unlimited vertical, will hag from the prop all day. I usually get 10 min flight from a 2,200 3S.
 

Headbang

Well-known member
#14
You cannot really say this as dropping number of cells produce less power each airframe is different. With lower cell count you get a slower throttle response and less power for the those oops moments. For good 3D you want at LEAST 1.5 - 1 most 3D`rs shoot for a 2-1 thrust to weight ratio.
I fly a lot of 3D, what I shoot for on electrics is around 280-300W per lb. Less voltage (lower rpm), more amps, bigger prop. Ends up at the same watts as more voltage, less amps, smaller prop.
 
#15
I think I would go with the lower Kv motor if you wanted to 3D. It may be able to take a larger prop than 10x5.
I'm using a Turnigy 3730 1000Kv with a 12x3.8 SF prop on my FT3D with excellent results. Unlimited vertical, will hag from the prop all day. I usually get 10 min flight from a 2,200 3S.
Your motor is a lot bigger than the firepower 480 I was thinking of using.

Turnigy Air Brushless Motor 3730-1000kv
Specifications:

Weight: 112g Inc 4mm Gold Connector (130g inc all fittings)
Kv: 1000rpm/V
Voltage: 11.1v~14.8v (3s~4s)
Max Power: 580w Max Current: 42A
No load Current: 1.6A
Thrust: 1700g
ESC: 60A

COMPARED:
Firepower 480 Sport Specifications:
Weight
= 2.6 ounces (74 grams)
Voltage = 7.2 - 13.0
Current = 25 amps or 260 watts maximum for 30 seconds.
KV = 960
suggested: 3 cell Lipo battery that is rated for about a 35 amp continuous discharge (or more), such as an 11.1v 1300 50C to 11.1v 2200 50C.
Recommend using a 30A to 40A Electronic Speed Control (ESC) with this motor.

I picked prop size based on the motors chart and thrust values to prop size.
View attachment 124117
I was thinking at 38oz thrust, this would give me the ratio to have that extra reserve power if needed. Surely the the bigger prop has more thrust but also bigger amp draw so keeping amp draw down I thought would give me longer battery life since I would not be doing any crazy 3D stuff, but 80% normal cruising around..
 

Attachments

Headbang

Well-known member
#18
I would go with the 11x5 prop, you can always throttle down, and the larger prop will give you more authority at low throttle. It is always better to have more to power out of situations. This why scale war birds are so hard to fly, you don't have the power to get out of trouble, you actually have to fly it out of trouble.
That 480 is very similar to c pack motor. Same currents, just a little lower kv.
 

Bricks

Well-known member
#19
Your motor is a lot bigger than the firepower 480 I was thinking of using.

Turnigy Air Brushless Motor 3730-1000kv
Specifications:

Weight: 112g Inc 4mm Gold Connector (130g inc all fittings)
Kv: 1000rpm/V
Voltage: 11.1v~14.8v (3s~4s)
Max Power: 580w Max Current: 42A
No load Current: 1.6A
Thrust: 1700g
ESC: 60A

COMPARED:
Firepower 480 Sport Specifications:
Weight
= 2.6 ounces (74 grams)
Voltage = 7.2 - 13.0
Current = 25 amps or 260 watts maximum for 30 seconds.
KV = 960
suggested: 3 cell Lipo battery that is rated for about a 35 amp continuous discharge (or more), such as an 11.1v 1300 50C to 11.1v 2200 50C.
Recommend using a 30A to 40A Electronic Speed Control (ESC) with this motor.

I picked prop size based on the motors chart and thrust values to prop size.
View attachment 124117
I was thinking at 38oz thrust, this would give me the ratio to have that extra reserve power if needed. Surely the the bigger prop has more thrust but also bigger amp draw so keeping amp draw down I thought would give me longer battery life since I would not be doing any crazy 3D stuff, but 80% normal cruising around..
I guess I must be different I never consider flight times when putting a motor, prop ESC combo together, I go for as much thrust versus weight I can get. I basically set my timer on my radio for 6 minutes then my radio will beep every minute over, no matter what I am flying that gives me enough leeway for landing etc.
 
#20
I would go with the 11x5 prop, you can always throttle down, and the larger prop will give you more authority at low throttle. It is always better to have more to power out of situations. This why scale war birds are so hard to fly, you don't have the power to get out of trouble, you actually have to fly it out of trouble.
That 480 is very similar to c pack motor. Same currents, just a little lower kv.
I was thinking of using this motor with a 10x4.7 prop for 3D flying but nothing too crazy. Is the higher kv motor fine and in general what kv & motor size work better with 3D (ie: higher or lower)?