Despise Hot Glue - Looking for an alternative adhesive...

[VonZipper]

Hey all! I've been building balsa models since late 70's and glow-powered RC hobby since early 80's but I'm new to the FT and electric RC Worlds. I've been out of the hobby for 20 years and thought the Flite Test models would be a great way to pick up the hobby again. I started building my FT Simple Storch with great excitment yesterday. But my enthusiasm died very quickly with my experience with hot glue. I began building my wing and quickly ran into trouble with the glue stick feeding properlly. I initially used an Adtech 23-watt glue gun but a little more than half way through applying glue to the leading edge joint and box beam, the gun would not feed and, of course, the glue beads hardened before I could finish. I had to remove the dried glue to attempt to complete the process in time to make a good joint. I switched to an Adtec 40-watt two temperture gun but had the same result. I repeated this process 3 or 4 times, with the same result each time (my shop floor was covered in dryed glue peelings!). I finally was able to the job done using both guns but now I'm throughly disgusted with hot gluing and am not optimistic about completing the remainder of the build with it. Does anyone have any idea what I might be doing wrong or can suggest an alternative to hot glue. I've previously used Liquid Nails Foam and Project Board Adhesive in model railroading with great sucess. Wondering if anyone has had any experience with that product foam airplanes? I believe it is water based so not sure if it would be durable enough for RC airplane use.

Thanks, Hot Glue Hater

 

[Liam B]

Well, you might be having problems because of the gun your using. I personally use the one of the FT store and love the way it works, no problems whatsoever. Adtech Pro200 Glue Gun (200 Watt) https://store.flitetest.com/adtech-pro200-glue-gun-200-watt/.

But, I think you would be ok with any adhesive as long as its foam safe. I have used foam safe CA for small but important bonds and it hasn't failed we, but it can get expensive, over $10 a bottle!

 

[ElectriSean]

Unfortunately those little glue guns are not going to cut it, especially with something the size of the Storch. The FT guys use a 200W unit - https://store.flitetest.com/adtech-pro200-glue-gun-200-watt/ to get those long joins. I have a Stanley similar to the Adtech that works well for me - http://www.stanleytools.ca/products...sticks/812-in-dualmelt-pro-glue-gun-kit/gr100

 

[cranialrectosis]

More power and more practice.

40W just has to be frustrating on a big plane like the Storch.

Long hot glue beads take planning and experience to get right. It gets easier but you have to put in a little time up front to be good.

Folding foam also takes some practice. You may find yourself confronted with both tasks at the same time to which all I can say is something I learned as a finance DBA.

The most expensive place to learn is in the production environment.

Grab some scrap (pizza box??) and practice the bead before you use your expensive, formed foam board. I find it much less frustrating to botch the pizza box bead. The pizza box gives me a place to put the glue gun where it won't drip on my bench and all the scraps I ever want to push hot glue around.

I also find it less frustrating to build after pizza.

 

[SlingShot]

What they said. Your bad experience came from a whimpy gun. Live and learn.

On the subject of alternative glues, if you do some research here you will see that White Gorilla Glue has lots of fans.

 

[rockyboy]

Personally, I'm a huge fan of White Gorilla Glue for the real work, and just use little dabs of hot glue to tack pieces in place while the White Gorilla Glue dries. Just need to keep an eye on the foaming action - making tape over joints to keep the foam inside is handy - but the foaming can be really helpful sometimes too for providing extra support and closing gaps!

 

[nhk750]

The Storch is a fun plane, but not very durable. Make sure you reinforce a lot of areas. The tail section breaks off easily, the wing hold down skewers, the landing gear mounting area, the rear of the wing mounting area all need reinforcement. Plus, I added a super powerful motor so mine performs much better now. Still 3s but unlimited vertical. Look up my posts on the Storch and you will find some mods. My first one is destroyed, the second is down for repairs right now. Use the adtec 200 gun too, works great.

 

[rockyboy]

I know everybody keeps talking about this need for a monster hot glue gun, but honestly - when you just use it as an aid for the White Gorilla Glue to set up I get by just fine with my little mini glue gun.



Well, I guess technically it's my wife's, but she doesn't use it that much. Plus the colors make me happy

 

[mikeporterinmd]

I haven't tried the Gorilla glue because it seems like hot glue on the paper, when over foam, will cause the paper to bond to the foam due to the extra heat. Will the Gorilla glue do the same?

Gorilla glue in foam/foam joints such as leading edges seems like it might work well.

Just wondering... no facts here

Mike

 

[VonZipper]

Hey, thanks for all the really fast and informative replys! I appreciate all the advice and recommendations: lotta of good info there. I sure wasn't expecting so many timely responses. Since I posted earlier this morning, I went to Home Depot and bought the biggest gun they had (85 watt DeWalt). Do y'all think that's gonna be enough wattage to get it done or should I return it and opt for the 200-watt version?

I also looked at the original formula gorilla glue. They've also got a new non-foaming variety but there's still the long set up time. Maybe a combination hot glue/gorilla glue solution that rocky boy suggests...

Love the Pizza box idea: I'll certainly practice before moving onto the fuse... with whatever technique I end up going with.

Again, thanks to all!

 

[nerdnic]

Good luck with the new gun, it will definitely help a lot. If you are still looking for alternatives then I can recommend Foam-Cure. I use it when I can't afford the mess of hot glue. It gets tacky in a few minutes and is easy to work with.

http://www.headsuphobby.com/BSI-Foam-Cure-EPP-Foam-Glue--4-oz-bottle_p_1950.html

 

[Hai-Lee]

I only use my hotmelt glue guns for quick mounting of servos and almost nothing else.

Early on I found that the heat of the summers here softened the glue and planes would warp and even fall apart in the air so an alternative was sought and now I use a range of glues which are foam safe and also glue the paper. Some are even rated as waterproof wood glues as well.

Check out your local hardware and craft stores for alternatives. Look for foam safe glues that are not water based and you will be fine.

Some glues will be faster drying than others and some better for spreading thin over large areas. I do still use my old Epoxy for engine bulkheads and CA for locking threads etc. Construction adhesives, used for gluing insulation foam are also an alternative but many are paste like and difficult to use in extremely small quantities.

Another benefit of the "Liquid" glues is that they weigh less. I built my second TT using liquid glue and not only was the plane lighter but the joints were stronger and lasted far longer. My first TT "Melted" mid summer and became so distorted that it would only fly straight with great difficulty. My second TT lasted 12 months and I replaced it only when water started to remove the paper for me. I did not use minwax

Do a little local research and you will find that there are a number of locally available glues that will suit your needs.

Just what works for me!

have fun!

 

[97tj-neil]

I believe white Gorilla Glue is stronger, lighter, and will not delaminate in summer heat. In short, better in every way but one - it takes a lot longer to cure. I just don't have that kind of time, so I use hot glue almost exclusively. you may be OK with an 85W gun, the one linked below is what I use. It is 100W and you can lay all of the beads for one wing on any of the FT planes.

https://www.amazon.com/Surebonder-P...501270926&sr=8-5&keywords=surebonder+glue+gun

 

[PsyBorg]

I did my Caudron build with the baby guns that Rockyboy showed. I am however jealous of those really cool GFX on those. Mine is plain old white and looks disgusting now after a few months of use here and there. It all boils down to practice makes perfect. I found cutting my joints and then touching them up with one of those foam emery boards with a course and a fine side are PERFECT for creating near perfect fitting folds. That alone helps a lot as you are only worried over time for glue to cool and not struggling with aligning things. Test fitting is the key. The better the test fit the easier the gluing will be so you are not taking so long to make a long joint.

THIS



was done with just this.

 

[SlingShot]

Hey, thanks for all the really fast and informative replys! I appreciate all the advice and recommendations: lotta of good info there. I sure wasn't expecting so many timely responses. Since I posted earlier this morning, I went to Home Depot and bought the biggest gun they had (85 watt DeWalt). Do y'all think that's gonna be enough wattage to get it done or should I return it and opt for the 200-watt version?

More power baby! This Adtech Pro 200 is awesome.

If you want to pump a lot of glue, you need a good tool.

 

[Gazoo]

More power baby! This Adtech Pro 200 is awesome.

If you want to pump a lot of glue, you need a good tool.

I was using a SureBonder gun that was around 80W or so. It was acceptable but I just got the Pro 200 and it is like night and day. I have maybe 4 builds on it and I don't regret getting this one at all.

The glue comes out very hot so as you lay the bead, the nozzle will cool and the glue will not be as hot. When you are done with the bead, the glue at the start and the glue at the end will be close to the same temp. I may have made that last part up but it sounds logical...I think.

 

[RCMAN]

I use Beacon Foam Tac for my foamies, it is hands down the best stuff ever. The Adtec 200 is my gun of choice for the disposable FT builds.

 

[arizona98tj]

I only use my hotmelt glue guns for quick mounting of servos and almost nothing else.

Early on I found that the heat of the summers here softened the glue and planes would warp and even fall apart in the air so an alternative was sought and now I use a range of glues which are foam safe and also glue the paper. Some are even rated as waterproof wood glues as well.

I don't know what kind of summer time temps Brisbane gets but in Phoenix, Arizona, where I started hot gluing foam board together for planes, flying in 115 degree summer temps was not uncommon. I built and flew many Flite Test foam planes for a year in Arizona before moving and never had one come apart at a glue seam from heat. Never warped either. Perhaps the difference was the brand of glue....I'm sure they are not all equal in quality or performance.

I use the Superbonder Pro2-100 (100 watt) glue gun and have been very satisfied with it. Have squeezed out those long beads of glue on Storch wings, among others, without a problem. I would recommend it.

 

[Hai-Lee]

I will not be drawn into a discussion on who has the Biggest thermometer. Yes I live in a different part of the world, and therefore I do not have ready access to many of the items and materials mentioned in the forums,

Here the humidity can be 100% at the highest temperature days and the FB we use is far heavier than the DTFB. The Paper to foam bond can fail after repeated exposure to such a combination. The paper can even delaminate itself where Hotmelt glue is used to glue the paper.

..............................................................
I posted a response or reply to someone who wanted information on alternatives to holtmelt glue when building FB planes and I did so giving the broadest possible and most appropriate response I could considering that the brand names and suppliers local to me are unknown to those in the US and many other countries. When asked for help I try where possible to give the help requested!

My response also did not inform him that he is wrong or not doing things correctly, his gun is substandard, that he should by a particular brand, I was trying to help him develop his own methodology, something that will work for him and not to in any way deter him or possibly give him cause to rethink his involvement in the hobby.

If the originator of this thread is still reading I will add to my original response by saying that the liquid glues can be used in ways in which the best hotmelt glue and gun will have extreme difficulty.

From experience you can laminate the FB with wooden sheets, plywood, and other FB sheets. The largest area done in a single piece is 800x1000mm the sheet size of the FB I use here.

The liquid glues can also easily reattach delaminating paper, make the strength added by doubler panels even greater, easily seal the raw edges of FB prior to painting and glue FB that has been sealed with Minwax if you forgot to glue before sealing with Minwax.

Have Fun!