Diving in the deep end - check my parts

[anammox]

Have you thought about lights at all? I know an all black Veresa screwed me up for orientation without then. Specially the first few days. That was when I had my worst crash to date. If you think you may put lighting on I would look at something that puts out 2 amps on the BEC's as they can pull a lot of current if you are using the normal 32 leds they can program.

I did add a couple led strips to my part list. WS2812B 5050 RGB Waterproof IP67, I read they are like 50mA full brightness per LED so if I had 8 or 10 total it wouldbe 500ma or less. Good tip though, I also really like having some LED bling.

I know this is a small item and you may have mentioned it in your parts list... A prop balancer. They are pretty easy to find and to use.

I had one on earlier and several people said I didn't need one... $24 du bro

Really depends on how much you plan on running off of it. Judging by your parts list, I think your flight controller and receiver will be the only components needing 5v, neither of which will draw a ton of current. The x4r only pulls 100ma, I can't find anything on the sp racing fc consumption though. You would probably be fine with .5 amp pololu, but you may want to get a 1 amp just to be safe.

OK so just add up all the amp draws... I'm thinking 1 amp is good then to cover the LEDs I mentioned above as well.



Another question... What batteries should I be looking at? I have 6045 props on DYS MR 2306 2100 kv using dys xm30a mini esc. The chart says 25 amps per motor max, so about 100A total. This quad is going to be more speedy and less agile, so I was thinking some bigger batteries would be OK. 1800? 2200? 45/65/75/90 C? Where does my 100A max draw come into play? If I understand correctly, 100/1.8 = 55, 100/2.2 = 45, so 2200mah 45C, or 1800mah 60C? Anyone else with experience on this size of props/motors? I am not looking for 20 minute flight time, but a little more than a tweaker 180 built for tight racing turns at 70mph... to use skiing as a reference, I'm looking for a GS quad instead of a slalom quad.

 

[Flat4]

OK so just add up all the amp draws... I'm thinking 1 amp is good then to cover the LEDs I mentioned above as well.

Check the voltage requirement for those leds, most leds run off 12v, so you won't want to piggy back them onto the 5v pololu. If they are in fact 5v leds ignore what I just said.

Another question... What batteries should I be looking at? I have 6045 props on DYS MR 2306 2100 kv using dys xm30a mini esc. The chart says 25 amps per motor max, so about 100A total. This quad is going to be more speedy and less agile, so I was thinking some bigger batteries would be OK. 1800? 2200? 45/65/75/90 C? Where does my 100A max draw come into play? If I understand correctly, 100/1.8 = 55, 100/2.2 = 45, so 2200mah 45C, or 1800mah 60C? Anyone else with experience on this size of props/motors? I am not looking for 20 minute flight time, but a little more than a tweaker 180 built for tight racing turns at 70mph... to use skiing as a reference, I'm looking for a GS quad instead of a slalom quad.

Your math is a okay as far as spec'n out the battery is concerned, but two things to keep in mind. Those thrust tests showing 25 amps are a static test, once you get it in the air the motors will unload, reducing the current draw. Second, almost all battery manufactures drastically inflate their batteries C ratings. SMC lipos are one of the only brands to actually list the true amp rating the battery can sustain through a complete discharge, and their 1800mah pack is only good for 51amps. FWIW, I have a couple of their 1300mah packs that are only good for 37 amps, and I regularly pull 70+ amps out of them on punch outs. For comparison they come down cooler then my 75C tattus after a similar flight, which should be good for 97 amps based off their C rating.

I don't have any experience personally with 6 inch builds, so I can't really comment on battery size vs flight times, but given what I stated above I'd get the highest C rating packs you can afford. If your packs can't keep up with what you are asking of them, the voltage will sag below a flyable level, and you'll lose out on flight time.

Hope some of this helps, if you'd like me to elaborate further on anything let me know.

 

[anammox]

It helps to hear the reality of it, but it also makes it impossible to make a decision. Now it feels like a crap shoot. I freelance for my hobby budget so I can pick up whatever is reasonable and simply work a couple more jobs to fill the gap. That said, what would you if you were me?

edit:

FWIW, I have a couple of their 1300mah packs that are only good for 37 amps

37/1.3 = 29C? That's so much lower than the 75C tattu... Would Tattu really double or triple their C rating? I just don't get it. 55/1.8 = 31C which we can consider as the same C rating for both batteries. Where do you get your 70 amps number from? What motors, battery, props are you running? I'm trying to find some measurable spectrum to place my build on for any semblance of logic to try to follow...

 

[Flat4]

It helps to hear the reality of it, but it also makes it impossible to make a decision. Now it feels like a crap shoot. I freelance for my hobby budget so I can pick up whatever is reasonable and simply work a couple more jobs to fill the gap. That said, what would you if you were me?

It's hard to say what I would do if I were you, since what you look for in a craft may not be the same as what I look for. Being that lipos are the biggest limiting factor to the performance of our copters, it's the one component I won't cheap out on.

37/1.3 = 29C? That's so much lower than the 75C tattu... Would Tattu really double or triple their C rating? I just don't get it. 55/1.8 = 31C which we can consider as the same C rating for both batteries. Where do you get your 70 amps number from? What motors, battery, props are you running? I'm trying to find some measurable spectrum to place my build on for any semblance of logic to try to follow...

The two current quads I'm flying are my Twaeker 180 FPV addiction, running rcx 2205 2633kv motors, spinning DAL 4x4.5 triple blades, and weighs 290 grams without battery. The second is an Achilles 210, running rcx 2205 2350kv motors, spinning DAL 5X4.5 Triple blade Race Edition props, and weighs 320 grams without battery. All my amp draw reading comes from my RROSD that's equipped on both quads. The batteries I use are SMC 1300, Glacier 1300 60C, Tattu 1300 75C, and Luminier 1300mah 60C packs.

My tweaker pulls about 75 amps during punch outs on a fresh pack, and will quickly sag it to high 60's. The Achilles will spike into the low 80's then quickly sag to the mid 70's. The amp draws between all 4 brands of packs that I fly are very similar, the biggest difference is the amount they sag during the punch outs, and how long they take to recover. The Glacier packs handle the voltage sag the best, with the SMC and Luminier packs being a close second, and the Tattu slightly lagging behind. This data is all anecdotal, and based off my personal experience, YMMV.

Also keep in mind that those numbers that SMC lists are the maximum current you can continuously drain that battery at without damaging it. It does not mean that the pack can only delivery 37 amps max, it's just past that is when voltage sag comes into play. Which doesn't necessarily hurt the pack, unless you allow it to sag under a safe operating voltage.

I really wish more manufacturers would give an honest C rating on their packs, I bought the tattu's under the impression they were one of the better packs out there, and they are my most expensive and worst performing pack.

 

[anammox]

How did you arrive at your battery selections? Did you just get a couple different ones?

Also, what do you know about fpv antennas?

 

[Flat4]

Yea, I try to do some research on them first, but there's not a ton of good data out there on them, so I just keep trying different brands.

I know a bit about antennas, what's your question?

 

[anammox]

It's along the same lines as my battery questions - what do I buy and why?

From what I've gathered searching reddit for battery recommendations I get the feeling that a slight majority of people prefer DIY or generally inexpensive antennas, particularly on the VTX, due to the risk of damage from crashing. Is the performance gain (if any) really worth 2 or 3 times the price to get name brand antennas?

Also, is the use of a 3 leaf CP antenna on the vtx with a 4 leaf SP on the vrx important enough that using 4 leaf SP on both is discernibly disadvantageous? The aomway pair for example includes 2-4 leaf antennas, and is touted as good value for money, especially when modded with half a ping pong ball and expanding foam. That said it is a 4 leaf on your vtx. On the other hand, I can't find any cheap 3/4 leaf vtx/vrx combos, respectively. I was originally thinking of using mad mushrooms on my vrx's, with an additional helical on my diversity receiver, but that leaves me looking for a 3 leaf antenna that is affordably replaceable on a regular basis.

I know I'm making mountains out of molehills with all these questions, but I am opting for the all-out commitment on my first build, vs the cheap trainer, so I want to make sure I'm getting everything right if I'm spending $1500.

 

[Flat4]

I can't recommend the Aomway antennas enough. I've tried all of the top brands so far, and performance wise the ibcrazy antennas edge them out, but not by enough to justify them being 3 times the price. They are a bit weaker without the cap on top, but like you said, you can do the ping pong ball trick, or there are 3D printing caps which is what I personally use on them. Haven't had one break since I put the cap on.

I'd also recommend running an SMA extension from the vtx, and mount it to the frame. This will prevent the antenna from ripping the SMA jack off your vtx on a hard crash.

I know I'm making mountains out of molehills with all these questions, but I am opting for the all-out commitment on my first build, vs the cheap trainer, so I want to make sure I'm getting everything right if I'm spending $1500.

Honestly, if I could start over this is the way to go. I've wasted a lot of money over the past couple years buying bad, or cheap equipment. There are certain things in this hobby that you can cheap out on, and some things you can't. Glad I can share my experience with it all, and hopefully give you good insight on what has worked well for me. Any other questions, feel free to fire away.

 

[Flat4]

Also where are you at now with your current build list? I know you've changed it up a few times now, I'd just like to give it another look over to see if there is any other recommendations I can make.

 

[anammox]

Excellent, I shall add the aomways then. Maybe down the road I can get a 3 leaf CP on the vtx when I crash less frequently. Indeed, I had intended on using a SMA pigtail to save the vtx.

It is encouraging to hear that my commitment is a good way to get into the hobby, and I really appreciate your insight. It has been very helpful.

I'm still working with this google sheet although I've rearranged it a bunch.

Right now I'm working through identifying vendors and actual prices for everything in order to finalize the shopping carts from each vendor so I can hopefully purchase everything by the end of the weekend. I still have a couple of things I'm not certain of that are highlighted in faded red that I'll be figuring out as I go.

Take a look and let me know what you think, I appreciate your time and effort helping me out so much.

EDIT:
Just to give you a little background in case you don't know:

• I went with the Armattan frame because of the lifetime warranty and I'm OK spending a more on it vs. the martian/zmr variants.
• The runcam HD was cheap and has good reviews
• I don't know if I will like the quanam v2's or the fatsharks (there is no one in my neck of the woods who flies fpv) and I want to have a pseudo ground station so the quanams can double as that if I end up wearing the fatsharks. Until I feel like I need to get the laforge diversity modules for the fatsharks I'll use them as my more portable close range set and use the quanams with the diversity receiver when I don't care about lugging them around but I want to increase my distance.
• I decided to grow my fleet by starting with a 6 inch prop build that I will use for more floaty speed and cruising type flying. My second build will either by a 4" or small 5" prop build, in the 150-210 range, that I can use for twitchy agile flying, once I get good enough to do that sort of thing. Hopefully my approach makes sense...

 

[Flat4]

Happy to help! Your list looks good, should be an awesome build.

A couple notes on your highlighted items. 1500mah is a good size for powering your goggles and diversity rx, should give you an hour or two of run time, while not being overly cumbersome.

I'd recommend the VAS's 3 turn helical for your directional antenna. Gives about twice the range of a cloverleaf, and still has a fairly wide radiation pattern.

The 10cm extension should be fine for now, until your more certain of your component placement of your build. You can always add a bend to make the long one shorter, but you can't make the short one longer.

I think you'll be happy with the Armattan frame. Nothing against the ZMR, heck I've had 2 myself, but it's getting old, and there's a ton of better options out there now. Plus offering a lifetime warranty on a frame that you know will be repeatedly slammed into hard objects at speed really says something about the confidence in their product.

The runcam Hd isn't a bad cam, but you may want to consider the Xiaomi Yi, or the runcam HD 2 instead. Once you get comfortable, and start moving at a good clip the difference between filming at 30fps and 60fps really starts to show. I use the Xiaomi personally and it shoots amazing footage, but there are few downsides to it. I have two and both came with an out of focus lens from the factory. Wasn't too hard to fix, but not something you'd expect from a new, fresh out of the box camera. Also the stock firmware on it kind of sucks. Again, it's an easy fix, plus there are loads of custom firmwares and scripts out there to increase everything from the cameras bitrate, to it's FOV. Again this is all my opinion, but I don't think there's a better action cam out there for the money currently.

Now as far as goggles are concerned, I don't think you'll be displeased with either. I started off with some DIY box goggles that were very similar to quanums, and I loved them. Huge FOV, very immersive, only complaints were the size and weight. I ran them for about a year and a half, before finally stepping up to a pair of dom v2s. Loved the comfort and portability of them, but absolutely hated losing my diversity. Now with the laforge module, I'm finally content with them. I also pulled the screen out of my old goggles, and I bring that and my diversity rx with me for ride alongs.

Your approach makes sense to me. Don't be too surprised if you start doing twitchy, proximity, acro style flying even with this build, once you get a handle on it. It won't be that much larger than a 5 inch 210 build, and depending on how you build it, not much heavier either. Heck some of the racer guys prefer 6 inch builds for their low end thrust and bite the lower kv motors and bigger props provide.

Once last thing, once you get everything make sure you start a build log, so we can all drool over your pretty new quad.

 

[anammox]

That all sounds good. I am going to switch to a xiaomi per your recommendation. What do you use to strap it down/protect it? I'm finding a lot of gopro velcro lens straps but people say they don't quite fit the yi and may have to sand them down? Also was going to get the IR lens replacement and not sure how that would affect the fit too..

I'll start documenting the process as soon as I get all my parts in

EDIT:

What antennas do you have on your receiver(s)?

 

[Flat4]

I only use one of these, and a velcro strap around it. I honestly can't tell you how many times I've smashed this thing, or ejected it 50 feet away, and it just keeps on ticking. I hit the thin side of metal sign going at least 40mph in a wide sweeping turn. The camera was the only thing to actually hit the sign, popped most of the case off of it, like 5 pieces sitting on the ground, put it back together and it was still good. I had to add a bit of foam in the battery compartment to keep it from bumping loose on crashes, causing it to stop recording. I also add a piece of tape over the sd card cover, had one card eject, lesson learned. Not sure if I'm just lucky, but this thing has been really impressive.

I use the ib crazy 3 turn helical, and an aomway cloverleaf on both my goggles and stand alone diversity rx.

 

[anammox]

Wow, ok.

I had a couple more battery questions now that I'm trying to put them in shopping carts:

The batteries I use are SMC 1300, Glacier 1300 60C, Tattu 1300 75C, and Luminier 1300mah 60C packs.

Where do you get 60C glacier batteries? I can only find 45C and 75C...

I am thinking of starting out with 2 SMC 1800mah 51A, 1 Bonka 2200 55C, and I would like another 1500-1800 from a different brand to try. Bonka has 1600 65C but I would prefer an 1800 55/65C - Bonka doesn't make that size, and buddyrc doesn't have Glacier's in that C rating. 1800 is preferable so I can charge in parallel with the SMC's.

That is unless you recommend different sizes... You are running 1300 mah on pretty lightweight quads.. Mine is looking like it's going to be 450-500g without the battery. Do you thikn I should look at 1500mah batteries? Am I going to grow out of the 2200mah quickly?

 

[Flat4]

Sorry, it's the 75C glacier, not sure why I thought it was 60.

I mainly only have 4 and 5 inch quads just so I can use the same battery for everything. I'm up to 15 1300's now, so I personally can't justify a quad that's going to use a different sized pack. My only exception is my little blade 150, but those batteries are like 6 bucks a pop. That's not to say in the future you couldn't run your 1800's on a 210 build. These newer motors are so powerful nowadays, it will have no problem lifting it, you'll just lose out a bit in the handling department.

Once you start really getting comfortable, and not crashing and changing props every flight, you'd be amazed how quick you can go through your packs. On a good day, when I'm not wrecking it every other flight, I blow through those 15 packs in a bit over an hour.

 

[Flat4]

Oh also another thing about the Xiaomi, check this video out. If my lucky streak does ever run out on my original, I'll definitely be adding this on the second.

 

[anammox]

Um, that's incredible.

 

[Topdawg]

I will admit I just purchased that plan with Joshua's affiliate link. That is AWESOME. I am sure I will break my Runcam 2 at some point in the next two years. Thanks for the link

 

[anammox]

I was looking around and noticed that there are 2 different plans that appear to apply to a camera, but are different prices.

Josh's 2 year Accidental Camera Plan for $12.83
2 year Accidental Electronics Plan for $7.53

I found a review for the Electronics plan where someone successfully submitted a camera claim, so I don't understand what the difference is. The fine print terms are identical for both as well.

 

[Flat4]

Hmm, they appear to be the same to me, not to sure though. I haven't looked to much into it, outside of knowing it's available.