First build. Possibly ignorant questions/advice

[Razrielle]

Howdy everyone. After a lot of looking around and pricing out, I've decided to do my own build. My goal for this was to have a quad to start learning how to fly a real (non-toy) quad with the ability to expand features. Hopefully I post this in a way that makes sense. I have some ignorant questions that will be posted in line with the build sheet, if I can get them answered that would be great!

Frame: YKS 250 https://www.amazon.com/YKS-Carbon-F...=UTF8&qid=1467209782&sr=8-8&keywords=quad+250

Reason: It seems to have a lot of room on it, it's the size I want to start off with, and isn't too expensive. Reviews look good on it.

Flight Controller: Crazepony SP Racing F3 Deluxe https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E58V09...lid=2CVAC8HPAQ7L6&coliid=I21W6I4P5EQGVQ&psc=1

Reason: I would rather get the non copy, but it seems sold out every where I look! This board looks like it is the best supported by Cleanflight. It also has a lot of expandability features for when I want to get more advanced into flying. Sure it's on the more expensive side of FCs but for the amount of features I don't mind paying a bit more

PDB: Crazepony Version 3.1 Matek PDB https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FLG0J8...TF8&colid=2CVAC8HPAQ7L6&coliid=I340F0A14LFORD

Reason: Seems like a pretty solid PDB with voltage correction for my FC/Rx. Also has extra connections for an OSD and camera when I choose to start doing FPV

ESC: Turnigy Multistar 20a http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._20A_V2_ESC_With_BLHeli_and_4A_LBEC_2_6S.html

Reason: Here's where my ignorant questions start. I chose this because it seems pretty easy to flash to a new firmware (with the right adapter) Here's my first question. To update them, it seems like I need all 3 wires for the servo connections on it, but with them being linear BEC I would only have one ESC with all 3 wires. Would I be better served going with an OPTO ESC? I don't know how often ESC's need their firmware flashed so it would be nice to not have to take out a wire if I can help it.

Motors: I'm not even sure where to even start with these, so suggestions would be greatly appreciated. With that being said, I don't think I'm going to have props on this list since it seems like props are greatly influenced by what motors I would go with.

TX and RX: Frsky X9D plus and X8R http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...o_Digital_Telemetry_Radio_System_Mode_2_.html

Reason: It seems like this is the go to TX and RX for most people. Heres another question. It seems like this RX supports telemetry trough the SBUS (which is what I think I'm going to use to connect to the FC) If it does not, what should I go with for the telemetry?

LiPo: Lumenier 1000MAH 3S 35C (from the flitetest store)

Battery charger: IMAX B6AC V2 http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._Professional_Balance_Charger_Discharger.html

Reason: Seems like a pretty solid charger, will take suggestions on others though.


I think that's everything I need (aside from the motors, but again, I'm not 100% sure what to go with. I was thinking about just going with the power pack E in the store). If anyone has any suggestions for better gear, I'm all ears.

 

[Razrielle]

So, after doing more digging, if I do chose to use those ESCs, only one ESC servo cable would have all 3 connected to the flight controller, the rest would just have one wire going to the signal port of the FC. Would that mean I could get 3 of these https://store.flitetest.com/20cm-servo-extension/ ,take out the red and black wires(or brown), and use that to connect to the FC?

 

[rockyboy]

Especially for a first build up, getting a pack of items already selected to work together is a good idea. The Flite Test packs are good, but you can also find some good full up kits or motor/esc recommended pairs on sites like http://www.readymaderc.com and http://www.simplecopter.com

Another advantage of getting from a multi-rotor focused small business is you can usually get ESC's and FC's that are already flashed to current firmware, removing one more potential problem from getting in the air the first time.

I think the frame, flight controller, and pdb you have identified all look like good starting places, and for motors the ReadyMadeRC 2208's at 2000kv are on sale right now - http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=505_506_749&products_id=4856 using slightly faster kv motors than the frame's recommendation shouldn't make any difference here.

RMRC has a 30amp ESC bundle they recommend to go with these motors which should already be flashed to current firmware to get you in the air.

+1 on the Taranis radio. You could get in the air cheaper, but you'll just end up wishing you got the OpenTX programmable Taranis anyway, so might as well start there.

And as long as you're getting the battery charger from HobbyKing, they are the most affordable place to get batteries from too. (That's a pretty common and solid charger by all accounts)

 

[Razrielle]

I'm about 3 months out before I actually put money on this build so I'm trying to get all the nitty gritty out of the way first before I commit to anything in particular. I don't mind flashing any firmware, my biggest concern is that if a new firmware comes out, I still want to be able to flash it.

Those motors seem like a pretty good deal, so it's my understanding that ideally I would have a set of CCW and a set of CW motors? I know that they can be reversed, but if I have dedicated motors, that should mean I wont have to worry about the prop nut coming undone?

Im not really trying to get into the air cheap, just trying to get in the air right. I do have an about budget of $800 that I'm allowing myself. FPV would be nice, but not a requirement.

 

[rockyboy]

You are correct on the motors - CW and CCW are focused on the threads, and the direction is reversible by flipping any two wires in between the motor and esc.

As you're looking plan this out, I'd also recommend looking at http://www.multirc.com/ - they have some great (and nearly indestructible) frames, amazing customer service, and lots of video and online support. Their HMB235 frame can take an incredible amount of punishment - and carries a lifetime warranty too. If you mange to break it, just send pictures and they ship a replacement part. They have an electronics bundle that includes practically everything you need for a quad too, using the slightly older Naze32 hardware - still fully cleanflight compatible and widely supported though. Also, I really like the Glacier 3s 1300 batteries they carry - those have become my go-to battery.

 

[rockyboy]

Also, I just spotted this cool tool to support flashing many different brands of ESCs - http://www.multirc.com/universal-esc-usb-linker.aspx looks well worth the money! I'll be adding one to my next order from them.

 

[pressalltheknobs]

TX and RX: Frsky X9D plus and X8R - I like AloftHobbies for Taranis stuff.

The X8R has an s.port telemetry connection. But for a mini quad you would probably be better with a X4R-SB... assuming you are using a flight controller that has sbus support. If not a d4R-II with CPPM can be more convenient.

FYI...Sbus is not used for telemetry. That is only used for control. Smart port (aka s.port) is used for telemetry on the X series RXs. In Cleanflight etc. you will also see "FrSky" telemetry which is the "hub" style connection used by the older D series RXs. Some FrSky RXs also have analog inputs which is convenient for battery sensors.

The YKS 250 frame looks like ZMR 250 clone. Since this is your first quad the may not be much advantage getting the carbon fiber version. You can get a fiberglass version for $16 here http://www.banggood.com/search/zmr250-frame-kit.html. Lots of parts too. You will need spare arms. Personally don't recommend integrated ZMR PBD. Some are not well designed and in any case if you crash it is likely to get damaged in ways that are hard to find. Use a small PDB board that has voltage regulators in it like the one you listed and silicon wire to hook up the ESCs. Depending on the shipping option you pick you can get things from Banggood reasonably fast and they are responsive if you have a problem.

The only thing I don't like about the IMAX B6AC V2 is the Deans connectors on all the adapters. It's just a bad design. All the charge leads should just have direct banana plugs. HK sells those if you want to solder your own or you can buy made up cables for the ones you need...XT60, XT30 and JST-RCY are the most common for LiPo

You may want to pick up an XT30 charge cable in any case. It doesn't come with one and XT30s are getting more popular.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__74596__XT30_charge_lead_with_4mm_banana_plugs_.html

 

[PsyBorg]

800 dollars is a nice range for a respectable start into the hobby. I know you could get a cheaper set up but the Versa copter is a well tested and hearty platform you could adapt to any style of flying you want to do. Although it is a tad on the heavy side it is still very agile once you learn how to do set ups well.

Versa frame + Power pack with highest priced frame options = 178
SPF3 clone chip = roughly 30
LED light kit to aid orientation = around 20 dollars
Eachine 700 tvl cmos camera and 200mw tx FPV camera set = 39 (49 if you go with a 600 mw)
20 dollars in spare props ( recommend 6x4.5x3 Dals for learning on the Versa with 3s. 5x4x3 Dals for 4s)
Roughly 60 dollars for a good ac6 clone charger.

That puts you at 360 dollars. Leaving the rest of your budget for flight batteries and radio. I assume you will have separate budget for goggles later as you said you were not jumping right into FPV. I recommend batteries with no lower then 35 c rating as anything lower will sag once you start hitting them with faster flight and more intensive maneuvers.

On mine I upgraded to a 30 amp esc set up to run 4s MUCH cooler then a 12 or 20 a esc's 12a's are adequate but they will be at limits very quickly.

On a final note motor orientation CCW CW rotation is moot these days as everyone uses standard rotation motors and lock nuts. This avoids problems trying to keep two types of spare parts or when in need of replacing things. If they are all the same its much easier.

I am not a salesman for FT I just have and know what the Versa can do and like it a lot. Its very stable and durable platform that can be more docile and easy to fly then a phantom on auto pilot or as twitchy as your skills can handle and then some. It also helps the people of FT who are putting their life into the RC community to make things better for all. BTW I am in the same process as you gathering parts for a lighter 5inch alien build now my skills are nearly ready for that step up.

Here is my current Versa build and how it is flying to give you a working example.

 

[Razrielle]

I went with the clone instead of the ZMR was due to the lack of the PDB on board. I do like how the arms are sandwiched, which looks like it might have enough room to run my ESC wires to make the build a bit cleaner. I might end up going with the fiberglass version, though it'll be a toss up since I want to stay as close to the "final" version as possible.

So for the telemetry, I'm guessing the x4rsb would replace the X8R and I would wire the RX with the telemetry outputs?

Ill look at other chargers too, I do want to stick with the XT-30 connectors. I was actually trying to find a charger with it built in but it looks like I need to buy adapters either way. Thanks for the help!

 

[Razrielle]

I really like your build, it seems like it would be a blast to fly!

I was originally planning on building this with 30A ESCs so I would have room to grow, but the whole BEC thing was confusing me and I wanted to seek out help before I just bought something before knowing about it. I wasn't planning on running 4S for a long time, but figured it would be ready when I was if I went with the 30A ones.

I was looking on doing a Versa build, however because the store didn't have some of the things I wanted in stock, I was starting to source things from other companies. One big reason I went with the ZMR clone is there's an extra layer of protection between my FC and the ground with the sandwiched design. I do like the heli style landing gear you have on yours though. Have you found that it affects flight much? I'm still not 100% opposed to the Versa style, just looking into different options.

 

[rockyboy]

TX and RX: Frsky X9D plus and X8R - I like AloftHobbies for Taranis stuff.

The X8R has an s.port telemetry connection. But for a mini quad you would probably be better with a X4R-SB... assuming you are using a flight controller that has sbus support. If not a d4R-II with CPPM can be more convenient.

FYI...Sbus is not used for telemetry. That is only used for control. Smart port (aka s.port) is used for telemetry on the X series RXs. In Cleanflight etc. you will also see "FrSky" telemetry which is the "hub" style connection used by the older D series RXs. Some FrSky RXs also have analog inputs which is convenient for battery sensors.

+1 for Aloft Hobbies for the Taranis - if you ever have any problems with it, they are the North American authorized repair facility for Taranis and have great support. Hobby King orders have about a 95% success ratio for me, but when they go bad, they really go bad. I have dead equipment I can't get them to replace/refund, and a horror story on 2 months to ship in stock product from their USA East warehouse, all in the last 6 months.

 

[Razrielle]

Ill keep that in mind. I was actually debating having the TX sent out here to where I'm deployed to so I can get some sim experience.

 

[Razrielle]

So looking a little more into it. If I were to go with OPTO ESCs (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...ar_30A_Slim_V2_ESC_With_BLHeli_OPTO_2_6S.html) I would not have to worry about unpinning any wires from the connecter when hooking up to the FC. I'm guessing it would be wired a lot like this? That's the PDB I'm using, the main difference being the kind of ESCs I'm using and using all 3 wires connected to the FC

 

[PsyBorg]

Check into using the signal side hot and ground on your esc's you already have power coming in from the receiver the way that diagram shows. Some fc's are finicky about power and that diagram shows 5 sources feeding power to the FC.

Any power set up to an FC I have seen either gets fed from pdb to receiver then to the FC from channel one and the ESC's only use the signal wire. That is how I have my SPf3 controller set up. Also on the clones they did not get the beeper traces correct on the board to the ones that have the connectors. You have to solder your wires to the underside at the pads as they pulled the ground trace off something else and it makes the beeper stay on and not be switched off.

 

[Razrielle]

Check into using the signal side hot and ground on your esc's you already have power coming in from the receiver the way that diagram shows. Some fc's are finicky about power and that diagram shows 5 sources feeding power to the FC.

Any power set up to an FC I have seen either gets fed from pdb to receiver then to the FC from channel one and the ESC's only use the signal wire. That is how I have my SPf3 controller set up. Also on the clones they did not get the beeper traces correct on the board to the ones that have the connectors. You have to solder your wires to the underside at the pads as they pulled the ground trace off something else and it makes the beeper stay on and not be switched off.

Hmm, ok, from what I gathered from the diagram is that the ESCs were only hooked up to the signal and ground. So I would be better served to just get the servo wiring extensions, taking out the red and black wires, and only keep the signal?

Mind If I ask where you grounded your beeper to since it seems you have a similar FC?

 

[PsyBorg]

Ahh. I just realized your esc's do not have a bec so you wouldn't have 3 wires my bad eyes saw hot ground and signal on the esc's I didn't zoom in on the picture. Yes signal and ground is good. For mine I just used the signal wire as the esc hot and ground are from the bec's and were used to power the receiver from one esc, the front lights from another and the rear lights from a 3rd leaving me one esc with unused bec for other things or as a spare.

As for the beeper they ran the ground trace to the connector on the top of the FC to the connector that was taken from one of the chips. On the bottom there are two pads that are properly run and that is where you solder your hook up to. Those are linked to the circuit controlling the beeper and not the power rails.

 

[Razrielle]

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Gotcha, Thanks for the help! Hopefully that should be everything I'm gonna need help with until I start the build. I'll probably do a build thread once I get started on it.