Fresh FTGremlin on Thingi
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2255970
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2255970
Flitetest DIY Gremlins
- Thread starter CrashRecovery
- Start date
So I've been putting off these shroud mounts...just can't think of a good way to draw what I want to do...have started on a couple ideas and ditched them.
But...I saw this "Indestructible" brushed whoop from the guy who's frame design inspired mine: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2256111
None of the photos on his listing seem to be working...but I had TPU loaded up in my printer already and was curious to see how stiff the frame actually is. So...I printed it:
But I'm not impressed enough to build it up. It's heavy - 40g - and I only used 15% infill instead of the 20% he suggested. I also backed off to just 2 walls instead of the usual 3 I use. And it's still very flexy. I can't see that small center plate stiffening it up enough since it's the motor mounts that are too flexy IMHO. I'm sure it's indestructible...but I doubt it would fly very well...at least not well enough for my tastes.
Oh, I also tried printing my prop guard in TPU...MUCH stronger than PLA...but as I expected far too soft to do what I'd want - unless I add a lot of walls or infill and then it gets too heavy.
Still that and the DYS Elf that french posted gave me a few fresh ideas.
Not too bad...it's about 27g, so more than double my original frame's 11g...but less than I expected. And there's still a lot of ways I can save weight.
It's smaller than the TPU one, and I could actually got 2-3 mm smaller and still fit these 55mm props. The shroud is just 2 walls thick (~1mm) but seems like it may be strong enough .
Removed a bit more material and:
That version is on the printer now...not sure if it will work without support or not...going to find out. My printer should be able to handle it without support...but...we'll see. It's projected to come out at 19.3 g which would be less than my original frame and best prop guard so far. If it prints ok I'll probably do a new version from scratch with the original frame simplified to save weight and the shroud and supports a little fancier.
But after seeing HilldaFlyer's latest creation I'm starting to wonder if a "mixed media" approach may not be my best bet...hmmmm
But...I saw this "Indestructible" brushed whoop from the guy who's frame design inspired mine: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2256111
None of the photos on his listing seem to be working...but I had TPU loaded up in my printer already and was curious to see how stiff the frame actually is. So...I printed it:
But I'm not impressed enough to build it up. It's heavy - 40g - and I only used 15% infill instead of the 20% he suggested. I also backed off to just 2 walls instead of the usual 3 I use. And it's still very flexy. I can't see that small center plate stiffening it up enough since it's the motor mounts that are too flexy IMHO. I'm sure it's indestructible...but I doubt it would fly very well...at least not well enough for my tastes.
Oh, I also tried printing my prop guard in TPU...MUCH stronger than PLA...but as I expected far too soft to do what I'd want - unless I add a lot of walls or infill and then it gets too heavy.
Still that and the DYS Elf that french posted gave me a few fresh ideas.
Not too bad...it's about 27g, so more than double my original frame's 11g...but less than I expected. And there's still a lot of ways I can save weight.
It's smaller than the TPU one, and I could actually got 2-3 mm smaller and still fit these 55mm props. The shroud is just 2 walls thick (~1mm) but seems like it may be strong enough .
Removed a bit more material and:
That version is on the printer now...not sure if it will work without support or not...going to find out. My printer should be able to handle it without support...but...we'll see. It's projected to come out at 19.3 g which would be less than my original frame and best prop guard so far. If it prints ok I'll probably do a new version from scratch with the original frame simplified to save weight and the shroud and supports a little fancier.
But after seeing HilldaFlyer's latest creation I'm starting to wonder if a "mixed media" approach may not be my best bet...hmmmm
Not too bad...17g, only 6g heavier than the unprotected frame.
Not sure how well the guard will hold up in crashes...and it's really not optimally designed - plenty of room for improvement. Would have printed much better with some support but did print acceptably without.
I could even glue the TPU bumper around the outside for extra strength...hmmm...
Think this is probably worth moving the parts to and trying to fly to see how it holds up to some abuse. But also think I may just start from a clean slate on designing a protected version. Wouldn't need the shields around the motors which will save weight I can use to strengthen the guard and it's supports instead. Can also design better supports which will print easier and be less tacked on looking.
Still want a convertible frame but doing a fully protected frame next seems to make a lot of sense too...
Well...
During disassembly I found a potential cause of the poor leveling performance - 2 of the FC mounts had broken off. So that could easily cause some vibrations which could affect the accels.
Re-assembling I hit a small snag...this black PLA doesn't take threads nearly as well as the green did. When I tried tapping the FC mounts they just stripped
But enough took a thread at the bottom that by swapping to some longer screws I was able to get it back together.
Took it out to do an autotune...and it wasn't great. Seemed to feel much heavier in the air and the accels were so bad I was full stick to the right just to hold it in position. So if anything the leveling issue got worse
Then about halfway through the autotune the left front prop flew off :black_eyed:
Which of course resulted in a crash into a cinderblock wall. Went to put a new prop on...but...found that the shroud had broken in the crash along with two of it's supports. Which was pretty much what I was afraid would happen.
I still have the heavier non-cutout version I could move everything to...but I may just wait until my new motors get here tuesday to see if eliminating the bent motor will solve the leveling issues.
Think I'll spend a bit of time with onshape the next few nights and start from scratch on something designed as a shrouded frame from the start. I'm happy with the current frame as an exposed build - but kind of want to do something with a shroud now. Kind of thinking I should get myself a 4 in 1 esc and a femo so I can build up a second one too ... even if it has one wonky motor
During disassembly I found a potential cause of the poor leveling performance - 2 of the FC mounts had broken off. So that could easily cause some vibrations which could affect the accels.
Re-assembling I hit a small snag...this black PLA doesn't take threads nearly as well as the green did. When I tried tapping the FC mounts they just stripped
But enough took a thread at the bottom that by swapping to some longer screws I was able to get it back together. Took it out to do an autotune...and it wasn't great. Seemed to feel much heavier in the air and the accels were so bad I was full stick to the right just to hold it in position. So if anything the leveling issue got worse
Then about halfway through the autotune the left front prop flew off :black_eyed:
Which of course resulted in a crash into a cinderblock wall. Went to put a new prop on...but...found that the shroud had broken in the crash along with two of it's supports. Which was pretty much what I was afraid would happen.
I still have the heavier non-cutout version I could move everything to...but I may just wait until my new motors get here tuesday to see if eliminating the bent motor will solve the leveling issues.
Think I'll spend a bit of time with onshape the next few nights and start from scratch on something designed as a shrouded frame from the start. I'm happy with the current frame as an exposed build - but kind of want to do something with a shroud now. Kind of thinking I should get myself a 4 in 1 esc and a femo so I can build up a second one too ... even if it has one wonky motor
@jhitesma,
You are a rock star knockin' all these out so quick! I'd be looking for some props that you can screw on. Sounds like you are getting some slipping if the props fly off. I printed off the FTSTEM frame, but haven't had any time to build it up. May have to use my Piko-BLX FC from my Pico-X. Need to pull it apart to fix the 4in1 ESC anyway. Trying to stay focused on all my big outdoor builds and ignore the tiny stuff for now too.... <sigh> The local power company set up a helipad 1/4 mile from our field though, so I may find working on tiny and flying around the yard more practical till they are done stringing power lines....
EDIT: That is a guy and a hanger on the end of the cable below the chopper!
Cheers!
LitterBug
You are a rock star knockin' all these out so quick! I'd be looking for some props that you can screw on. Sounds like you are getting some slipping if the props fly off. I printed off the FTSTEM frame, but haven't had any time to build it up. May have to use my Piko-BLX FC from my Pico-X. Need to pull it apart to fix the 4in1 ESC anyway. Trying to stay focused on all my big outdoor builds and ignore the tiny stuff for now too.... <sigh> The local power company set up a helipad 1/4 mile from our field though, so I may find working on tiny and flying around the yard more practical till they are done stringing power lines....
EDIT: That is a guy and a hanger on the end of the cable below the chopper!
Cheers!
LitterBug
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Well, I haven't been fully sharing them. They're all there in that onshape link if anyone wants to export their own STL's...but I'm not going to go through the time of preparing STL's and posting them on every iteration - only the ones that seem worth sharing
Along those same lines I would love to see someone else fork the design and do their own stuff with it.
Not an option with these motors, no screw holes on top. But this was my own fault. That prop had been used a few times and didn't feel very snug when I installed it. I should have replaced it with a fresh one (they're dirt cheap and I still have a bunch of them) but that one was handy so I was lazy and went for it. Should have listened to my intuition but still had to change the oil in my car and cook dinner so was kind of in a rush
I'm kind of the opposite. It was 98f out yesterday and I had to turn on the AC in my shop so all the foam board hot glue planes and 3D printed things I keep in there didn't start to fall apart
So this is the time of year I'm more interested in staying inside and the bigger outdoor stuff starts to get put on the shelf. Though I do still want to finish my explorer...I'm thinking about setting it up with LRS and a repeater so I can sit in my truck with the AC on while I fly but still have my antennas outside
Plus I'm just loving this little quad. Much easier to find a time and place to sneak in a few packs with it than with a 250! And props are cheaper and don't break as often and crashes seem to be less traumatic
Gremlins For Sale
Just ordered mine. Hard to find the spot. Check this link if your interested.:applause:
https://store.flitetest.com/power-pack-g-with-flite-test-gremlin-frame/
At this time there are 2 body styles to choose, 2 2S options, and 1 camera option.
Just ordered mine. Hard to find the spot. Check this link if your interested.:applause:https://store.flitetest.com/power-pack-g-with-flite-test-gremlin-frame/
At this time there are 2 body styles to choose, 2 2S options, and 1 camera option.
Beautiful copter jhitesma.
It snowed like mad here all weekend and again last night. Total accumulation 0". It snows but doesn't stick at this point. Still no fun to fly outside so I've been flying my Moskito and re-building my WarpQuad.
I still haven't broken the prop guards on my Moskito. I like that I can replace it without replacing the whole frame.
Have you considered making the landing gear and prop guards as a kind of basket that your frame sits into? At least that way when something breaks you don't have to rebuild the copter.
It snowed like mad here all weekend and again last night. Total accumulation 0". It snows but doesn't stick at this point. Still no fun to fly outside so I've been flying my Moskito and re-building my WarpQuad.
I still haven't broken the prop guards on my Moskito. I like that I can replace it without replacing the whole frame.
Have you considered making the landing gear and prop guards as a kind of basket that your frame sits into? At least that way when something breaks you don't have to rebuild the copter.
I just watched the video and see there will be more body options not yet at the store. Stefan's and Alex's designs aren't there yet, just Josh's and TJ's.
n.carlsonsr@gmail.com
New member
I am experimenting with an idea that is right up FT alie $Tree foam board . Thats right yoou heard correct. Think of a toy quad it has a ultra thin plastic internal frame that is pressed between foam to reinforce it. Its small, light and this will not TOY! (For kids.
hungryzebra
New member
I just got my kit on order. What would be a good receiver choice?
EDIT: Looks like they added an option for the receiver as well.
EDIT: Looks like they added an option for the receiver as well.
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I wondered if we'd finally get you in this thread
Glad to hear you like it!I've considered it...but I want to keep it light and it seems that going all in one is the best route for that. But...it also seems that PLA isn't great for a prop guard but is good for the rest and the things that would be good for a prop guard aren't great for the rest
So...kind of thinking that way. I may try one full print in Nylon just to try it...besides if I don't use my nylon soon it will probably go bad so I should stop being afraid of using the stuff (due to it's price) and just get on with it already Got mine ordered last night. No battery option, so I went with "Crazepony 450mAh 2S 7.4V 80C Lipo Battery Pack with XT30 Plug for Mico FPV Racing Drone Quadcopter" and ordered an XT30 plug with pigtail to solder to the board. Sacrifice some weight to have batteries and a connector I have a charger adapter for already.
Super pumped for this. Keep it up FT.
Super pumped for this. Keep it up FT.
8Bit_Koopa
New member
Gremlin Frame Designs
I was actually working up some designs now that I ordered my kit.
Gremlin A
This was a sleek fully enclosed capsule. All the electronics including the ESCs would be in the central body. You would glue the top and bottom plates to their respective arms, and when you mount the motors the two halves would be held together by the motor screws. I didnt really like how it turned out as a spiral antenna would be hard to protect, it would work much better with a T or straight antenna. I gave up modeling a camera enclosure for this one and moved to a new design.
Gremlin B
This is a little more modular. You could fly it just off the frame bottom, or add the top enclosure.
The whole thing should end up snapping together making it easy to sub in replacements for broken parts. You could also glue it together once its assembled for more strength.
The camera and battery are fully enclosed and protected, yet easily accessible. I was also thinking the whole top enclosure could be made of foamboard to help with weight. A multi medium frame seems really interesting to me.
The theory would be that all the electronics and wiring are contained within and attached to the bottom of the frame. This keeps them as far away from the props as possible. This area could also easily be covered with tape or a thin plate of some sort if needed. I was assuming I would keep them open for airflow. The center vertical pieces have extensions in the middle that act as landing feet to keep the electronics from hitting the ground when landing.
I still need to make a camera holder and angle adjustment piece. I'm pretty happy with how this frame is progressing so far.
I guess I also need to test print some of these and see what they are weighing in at as that is a large factor in most of these micro frames.
Let me know if anyone is interested in what I have going on, or can see any improvements that I could be making as I continue my modeling journey.
I was actually working up some designs now that I ordered my kit.
Gremlin A
This was a sleek fully enclosed capsule. All the electronics including the ESCs would be in the central body. You would glue the top and bottom plates to their respective arms, and when you mount the motors the two halves would be held together by the motor screws. I didnt really like how it turned out as a spiral antenna would be hard to protect, it would work much better with a T or straight antenna. I gave up modeling a camera enclosure for this one and moved to a new design.
Gremlin B
This is a little more modular. You could fly it just off the frame bottom, or add the top enclosure.
The whole thing should end up snapping together making it easy to sub in replacements for broken parts. You could also glue it together once its assembled for more strength.
The camera and battery are fully enclosed and protected, yet easily accessible. I was also thinking the whole top enclosure could be made of foamboard to help with weight. A multi medium frame seems really interesting to me.
The theory would be that all the electronics and wiring are contained within and attached to the bottom of the frame. This keeps them as far away from the props as possible. This area could also easily be covered with tape or a thin plate of some sort if needed. I was assuming I would keep them open for airflow. The center vertical pieces have extensions in the middle that act as landing feet to keep the electronics from hitting the ground when landing.
I still need to make a camera holder and angle adjustment piece. I'm pretty happy with how this frame is progressing so far.
I guess I also need to test print some of these and see what they are weighing in at as that is a large factor in most of these micro frames.
Let me know if anyone is interested in what I have going on, or can see any improvements that I could be making as I continue my modeling journey.
PsyBorg
Wake up! Time to fly!
I would plan on modeling these with dipole antennas as O really don't think people will be wanting to fly these out of normal visual range simply because of their size and the higher probability of losing it in a crash. The change over to dipoles has already been popular on the tiny whoops and these wont be flown much further I don't think.
I think I would also mount the camera lower and a touch more forward. Up high like that and it will be constantly knocked around in the inevitable crashes. Seems to be a big issue with the whoops. getting it lower between the booms protects it more. Of course with being lower the props in view will be effected so you would have to do physical tests to find the sweet spot of protection vs the best view between the props. I like 4:3 aspect cameras over wide screen for FPV so that would also aid with less prop in the lens.
And if you went with multi material build I would probably go with a foam dome type upper as side plates would go squish way to easy Think more turtle then side walls.
I think I would also mount the camera lower and a touch more forward. Up high like that and it will be constantly knocked around in the inevitable crashes. Seems to be a big issue with the whoops. getting it lower between the booms protects it more. Of course with being lower the props in view will be effected so you would have to do physical tests to find the sweet spot of protection vs the best view between the props. I like 4:3 aspect cameras over wide screen for FPV so that would also aid with less prop in the lens.
And if you went with multi material build I would probably go with a foam dome type upper as side plates would go squish way to easy Think more turtle then side walls.
jhitesma, I really like the protected prop frames, the blue inductrix-like one especially. Have you flown all of these? I understand that weight will induce some sluggishness but have any of them been so sluggish they could jot flip or roll? Have you noticed any differences in the sound or loudness between frames?
Thank you for charging aheadso boldly with so many builds and sharing the results along the way.
—Jim
Thank you for charging aheadso boldly with so many builds and sharing the results along the way.
—Jim
The blue one isn't my design, it's one I found on thingiverse. After printing it I decided not to even build it up. It's TPU so it's indestructible...but it's just nowhere near stiff enough. Maybe the guy who designed it was using semi-flex or something stiffer than the hatchbox TPU I have. It also really needs a 4 in one which I don't have. And it's heavy. My original frame is only 11g, that thing came in at 40g. Even my fully shrouded PLA version is only 20g.
The only one I've actually flown so far is the black PLA shroud with the big cutouts...which as I said didn't even make it through an autotune
The shroud was just too fragile. I've modified it by making the cutouts smaller and reprinted it last night in some better PLA (I've never had good luck with black PLA - I think the dyes they use for black make it weaker for some reason) but haven't had time to fly it yet. The little bit of test flying I did do was hard to judge because it was crazy windy and I hadn't gotten through a tune yet. But it definitely felt a lot heavier in the sky even with just 10g extra. I needed noticeably more throttle to hover and even untuned it was noticeably more sluggish.I'm working on a new idea now more like the owl upgrade for the picox frame: https://flexrc.com/product/pico-owl-v2-conversion-kit-for-pico-x/
In fact almost identical to what they did. Not sure if I can make it work well yet or not but we'll see.
I'm not overly concerned about protecting my camera. TPU is pretty much mandatory for the camera mount IMHO, and with small rubber bands mounting it the camera easily comes loose and gets tossed free instead of absorbing the energy of impacts. I was hesitant to move to the dipole due to 5.8g multipathing and the loss of 3db with the polarization mismatch between the linearly polarized dipole and my circularly polarized RX antenna...but so far it's been ok. I'm running a 200mw vtx though and do plan on flying it further - with the power these little brushless setups bring to the table it's more like a 180 than a whoop...you really do need some space to do much more than hover. 25mw is probably fine...I just got the 200mw because it was on sale for less than the 25mw when I bought it.
The dipole has proven far more durable than the cloverleaf and doesn't really need any protection. All that said...I may do a version of the camera mount that gives a TPU loop over the top for extra protection. We'll see...so far my gut and experiments are telling me less is better on these and weight makes a big difference. When the whole setup is 80g or less with battery ready to fly 2-3 grams here and there isn't a huge difference...but 5-10g is.
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