FPV legal issue

[Kogashuko]

Don't know much of the specs of that amp but it won't do much from an fpv perspective because the frequency that the amp is intended for is more for the av side of the transmission which would be mounted on the aircraft not at the ground station.

Edit:
Long story short, it's not the type of thing that you Are looking for

Yeah it would be for my cell phone. However, there are only a few of the that the phone companies actually want you to use. They have gone as far to say they are causing lots of problems with towers. They are a hot topic. My response is that if they had better coverage people wouldn't use them. I had a 3 watt model on my house for a while that was made by Wilson. The cell phone company straight up gave me a femtocell when I went to replace it.

Anyway, I was joking that one of these might get your fpv stuff noticed when you have a big 3watt amp screwing with the cell network near you.

 

[RotateB4TheEnd]

Just thought I'd throw my experience in here:

This forum appeared just about the time I was looking to order my first FPV kit for a multirotor. After reading through most of it, I decided I would pursue the licensed route, so as to remain on the safe side. It didn't sound too difficult, and for $15 it would allow me to operate legally.

I utilized the study guides, mainly the flashcards on HamStudy.org, to prepare for the exam. While I considered purchasing the ARRL book that describes everything in much greater detail, I needed to learn the material quickly and found the flashcards sufficient. I spent probably an hour or so each day working through all of the flashcards. Then I took a few practice exams and scored well. On 1/5/2014 I took the test, which was hosted by the McKinney ARC (very nice guys&gals!). After passing the technician exam, they encouraged me to attempt the general class exam, because it wouldn't cost me any more money. I did not pass that (the material was quite different), but I left with what I came for!

Happy to say it was a fairly easy process, and my callsign, KF5ZVC, was in the online database 10 days later.

While I did fire up my FPV system for a basic 5 minute test before receiving my callsign, I did not have anyone come knocking on my door. This does suggest that it is possible to operate without a license and avoid consequences. However, as my story shows, earning a license was so simple that the peace of mind is worth much more than the risk. And I learned a little also!

Just my 2 cents.

 

[vk2dxn]

Hey congrats mate

 

[jhitesma]

Congrats! I remember getting talked into taking the general test when I took and passed my tech for the same reason. I hadn't really studied for it but was deeply involved in radio at the time so I gave it a go...and was shocked to learn that I passed (barely.) Unfortunately I never did get the 15wpm on my code to actually get a general at the time. I took the code test 3 times over the next year but never passed at the higher rate (came close but not quite.)

I did finally get my general a few years ago though - I was talking some friends into getting their tech so they could use 2m radios and APRS off-roading and figured it was as good an excuse as any to finally get my upgrade since code was no longer an issue. And again after that they talked me into taking the extra test. Yeah, that didn't go well and I didn't expect it to One of these days I may suck it up and do some studying to get the extra just to do it...but really I don't use my general privileges enough as it is.

 

[Tritium]

Same thing happened to me. Went for the Technician just to get me legal for FPV, passed and was offered the General Test and was shocked to learn I passed it also. They offered me the Extra Class Test and I declined but went back the next month and to my surprise passed it. The questions on the test were not nearly as vector (and other) math intensive as the practice test. Now I am President of the new local Ham club.

Thurmond

 

[Tymtravler]

Wow did this thread take off when I started it. Finally got my FPV setup on my 2 HEX's and ready to take the technical class. I know in 2015 if the FAA allows for commercial use we will all be ahead of the game.

 

[teamhairball]

Wow did this thread take off when I started it. Finally got my FPV setup on my 2 HEX's and ready to take the technical class. I know in 2015 if the FAA allows for commercial use we will all be ahead of the game.

I posted a question related to this comment yesterday, somewhere on the FT forum. As I understand it the Ham license lets us use the frequencies for non commercial purposes. In 2015 we get to fly for commercial reasons and therefore can't use the Ham frequencies. I think we will need commercial licenses. Yes, no, maybe so? Does any one know?

 

[Cyberdactyl]

I would tend to think it would be an insurance liability requirement at a minimum for commercial FPV.

Although, as of right now, it's the wild west. I even know of a Chemical Safety Board guy who aerial surveyed the aftermath of the Chevron oil refinery in Richmond Cal. with an RTF quad and a GoPro he grabbed because of a 150ft safety perimeter. He had half a day practice and them recorded video. I can't imagine that happening once the FFA set the requirements.

 

[xuzme720]

I would tend to think it would be an insurance liability requirement at a minimum for commercial FPV.

Although, as of right now, it's the wild west. I even know of a Chemical Safety Board guy who aerial surveyed the aftermath of the Chevron oil refinery in Richmond Cal. with an RTF quad and a GoPro he grabbed because of a 150ft safety perimeter. He had half a day practice and them recorded video. I can't imagine that happening once the FFA set the requirements.

Crap! Now Future Farmers have their hand in the pie, too!?!

 

[Craftydan]

Crap! Now Future Farmers have their hand in the pie, too!?!

It is a real sloppy, wet, cow pie of a mess -- about time some experts were invited into the decision making

 

[xuzme720]

It is a real sloppy, wet, cow pie of a mess -- about time some experts were invited into the decision making

There is that! Us country boys just know better than to mess with the wet ones. Time for the bureaucrats to learn, I guess! Make sure somebody grabs some Purell and some towels!

 

[Tritium]

Crap! Now Future Farmers have their hand in the pie, too!?!

"Here by the owl. The owl is a time honored emblem of knowledge and wisdom. Being older than most of you........"

Surprised I remembered that much from FFA!

Thurmond

 

[adamd]

in Canada you use to be able to do it online, I don't know if you still can or not.

 

[jhitesma]

As for commercial operation. You'd have to get licensed commercially for the frequencies/modes you want to operate. The restrictions on commercial radio licenses are a lot more strict than on ham's. While Ham's get licensed for whole ranges of frequencies and have very wide latitude as to what modes they operate on in those frequencies commercial operators tend to be far more restricted and their licenses tend to be for just the frequencies they need, at the power levels they need, for the modes they need - and nothing else. If they want to switch to a new frequency then they're often looking at re-licensing. Oh yeah, they're also usually geographically locked to only operating on those frequencies in those modes in limited areas.

Commercial radio licenses are also not nearly as affordable as ham licenses.

I'm leaving out a lot and trying to keep this simple. But basically commercial radio licensing is WAY different than amateur licensing and in general is both more expensive and more limiting in many ways.


On a related tangent...I'm surprised we aren't seeing more progress on digital video transmission. All the stuff currently in general use for FPV is still analog. I've seen a few amateur digital video projects but they're still pretty expensive to get started with. I predict that by 2015 we'll see a lot more digital video options on the market and that will really change things up.

 

[teamhairball]

As for commercial operation. You'd have to get licensed commercially for the frequencies/modes you want to operate. The restrictions on commercial radio licenses are a lot more strict than on ham's. While Ham's get licensed for whole ranges of frequencies and have very wide latitude as to what modes they operate on in those frequencies commercial operators tend to be far more restricted and their licenses tend to be for just the frequencies they need, at the power levels they need, for the modes they need - and nothing else. If they want to switch to a new frequency then they're often looking at re-licensing. Oh yeah, they're also usually geographically locked to only operating on those frequencies in those modes in limited areas.

Commercial radio licenses are also not nearly as affordable as ham licenses.

I'm leaving out a lot and trying to keep this simple. But basically commercial radio licensing is WAY different than amateur licensing and in general is both more expensive and more limiting in many ways.

If you are willing, I would very much like to hear the parts you left out to keep it simple.

Getting my ham was easy. I googled to find the local club and then found study guides online. The test was no problem. Where does one begin for a commercial license?

 

[jhitesma]

I don't keep up much with commercial regs. I catch up every couple years it seems but haven't had an excuse for some time. It's a totally different ball game. Instead of clubs and tests it's lawyers and accountants is more or less what it comes down to. I would suggest getting in touch with a local shop that sells radio systems to commercial users. I'm really not sure how much of my knowledge about commercial licensing is still valid and even if I did I wouldn't really know where to start talking about it in a forum.

Most of what I learned was from a few years ago when locally we had a problem start up with "race radios" being sold to off roaders who were operating in the ham bands and stomping on other local users with their higher power but poorly configured rigs. Some of the people I knew who fell for "race radios" thinking they were skipping having to get licensed were shocked to learn that they were operating illegally because the radios came pre-programed with amateur frequencies so they assumed they were safe to operate on anything programmed into the radio. The company selling the radios gave some lip service about them being on "their license" but it turned out their license was only good for operating at races on a small set of frequencies they had licensed. I was caught in the middle of the whole thing as both a radio guy and being active in several groups fighting to keep riding areas open.

 

[Tritium]

Commercial Radio License Information:

http://www.w5yi.org/page.php?id=25

Enjoy, don't hurt your head. It is Tough!

If you have passed your Extra Class Amateur Exam then about 1/2 of that material is used on the first commercial test. A lot of math required.

Also keep in mind that a Commercial license is for a specific frequency licensed to YOU only outside the Ham and ISM bands and is NOT a license to use Ham bands for Commercial purposes. This means that there is NO FPV or LRS currently used for hobby flying that is legal to use with a Commercial license since the frequencies used fall in the ISM or Ham bands.!

Thurmond

 

[LordGarak]

For commercial use when flying under the restriction of LOS you can operate legally you just can't use 600mW or even 250mW transmittes. 10mW can work if you use a high gain tracking antenna and high sensitivity receivers. You have to maintain a LOS so it should be fine. Need to cover a bigger area, have a number of ground stations with tracking antennas spread around the area and cabled back to the pilots station. The extra cost will likely be much cheaper than the commercial radio licence.

These 250mW and 600mW transmitters are just not legal without an amateur radio licence.

Flitetest can't legally use these transmitters at all because they are commercial, its no longer a hobby for them as they make a living from it. Nor can Flitetest use any of the UHF stuff legally.

It might also be illegal to import or sell transmitters that are not FCC approved with the exception of amateur radio operators. Even then if the transmitter can be tuned outside of the amateur bands its illegal. I'm in Canada where we don't have these restrictions but I do recall that all amateur radios for the US market won't transmit out of band. Its usually just a matter of clipping a diode to unlock the radio.

Can anyone clarify the import laws?

73, VE1LX

 

[FinalGlideAus]

I know it's different for each country but simply speaking what FPV pilots are doing is illegal on many levels. Here in Australia LRS systems are not legal and either is 1.3ghz. 5.8 is ok but only under 25mw unlisenced. Even if you have your Ham lisence you can't go over 25mw for video broadcast. 2.4ghz has power limitations too. Modded radios to increase range are no no also. That leaves an FPV pilot standard 2.4ghz for control and 25mw on5.8ghz for video and flying LOS only with a spotter. Not much room to play.

So what happens? Well of course some don't even know about these rules but most who do go "bugger it" and do it anyway. The smart ones form very private groups to help each other out and are just very careful about when and where they fly for fear of the dreaded CASA and ACMU van rolling up. Mind you those government organizations are so under staffed and over worked that there is little risk of getting caught because they have bigger fish to try than a kid flying a 500gram quad in the park.

 

[vk2dxn]

For commercial use when flying under the restriction of LOS you can operate legally you just can't use 600mW or even 250mW transmittes. 10mW can work if you use a high gain tracking antenna and high sensitivity receivers. You have to maintain a LOS so it should be fine. Need to cover a bigger area, have a number of ground stations with tracking antennas spread around the area and cabled back to the pilots station. The extra cost will likely be much cheaper than the commercial radio licence.

These 250mW and 600mW transmitters are just not legal without an amateur radio licence.

Flitetest can't legally use these transmitters at all because they are commercial, its no longer a hobby for them as they make a living from it. Nor can Flitetest use any of the UHF stuff legally.

It might also be illegal to import or sell transmitters that are not FCC approved with the exception of amateur radio operators. Even then if the transmitter can be tuned outside of the amateur bands its illegal. I'm in Canada where we don't have these restrictions but I do recall that all amateur radios for the US market won't transmit out of band. Its usually just a matter of clipping a diode to unlock the radio.

Can anyone clarify the import laws?

73, VE1LX

I was waiting for someone to bring up the legalities of flitetest's operations. I have left this alown because I don't want them to take a fall because then we all loose an entertaining show.