Newbee with balsa / wood question

[TTF]

I'm new to RC and have very limited stick time. That being said, I truely enjoy building. So far I have built 5 dtfb planes and have learned a lot. I have also made different types of wings and remade parts for existing planes. Winter is upon us all and thought this would be a good time to broaden the horizon and learn some new skills. I am looking for a sturdy, easy to build, balsa or wood plane that would be a good trainer (3 channel). I am not looking to do a scale or anything crazy. What would you recommend as a good plane to start? A kit or just plans? Any and all information is welcome, and as always thanks for the support.

 

[mjmccarron]

Hi TTF,

I enjoy scratch building from plans as the selection of kits has given way to ARF's. I understand that Mountain Models offer some good quality kits but haven't any personal experience with them. Several people on here who's opinions I trust report that they are of excellent quality. http://www.mountainmodels.com

If you're up for a scratch build, I really enjoyed the Carl Goldberg Falcons. The Jr. Falcon plans are on Outer Zone www.outerzone.co.uk
Just search for Carl Goldberg or Jr. Falcon. The Falcon56 is one of my all time favorites. There are many other plans there to choose from as well. In any event, let us know what you choose and keep us up with your progress. I for one think we need more balsa builders.

Good Luck!

Mike

 

[SoylentGreen4579]

given the work invested in a stick built plane, I sincerely recommend sticking to DTFB for your trainer type needs.
Balsa has migrated away from the mainstay it was, to being a medium somewhat reserved for projects that are kinda special.
that said .... J3 cub is a plane everyone should have.
You might also look into EPP foam,particularly if you really like a particular design.
you can pound this stuff mercilessly and still have a plane at the end of the day.

 

[Snowblind]

I'm new to working balsa and love it, great looking, satisfying to cut/shape. I can't recommend anything from experience yet, but I must say that balsa is worth the work. As far as where I'm looking for my next one or two planes, MountainModels, ParkScale, and a couple other companies offer laser-cut 3D-puzzle designs that the forum-goers appear to be having good luck with.

My only balsa experience is with a Guillow's static model kit, and I would not recommend starting with Guillow's.

 

[Joker 53150]

given the work invested in a stick built plane, I sincerely recommend sticking to DTFB for your trainer type needs.
Balsa has migrated away from the mainstay it was, to being a medium somewhat reserved for projects that are kinda special.
that said .... J3 cub is a plane everyone should have.
You might also look into EPP foam,particularly if you really like a particular design.
you can pound this stuff mercilessly and still have a plane at the end of the day.

I'm just going to go ahead and disagree with almost all of this. While balsa is generally more work than DTFB, the experience and finished product are well worth the effort. I have built a dozen planes from the foam, but I've gotten far more satisfaction out of balsa. Knowing how to use both balsa and various foam mediums in a build is the step beyond that, where you get the best of both worlds.

The J3 Cub is undoubtedly a classic, but there are better flying trainers in that style. Unless somebody really wants a Cub in the hangar I'd lean towards something like the Telemaster from kit or plans.

To give my input to the original question posted, there are good 3 channel balsa trainers out there, but you get far more choices if you open that up to 4 channel designs. In 3channel the first one I can think of is the Telemaster. I built the 4 channel version and it flies incredibly well. The 3 channel version only differs with the wing so I would expect similar performance. In 4 channels you could get kits from Mountain Models or plenty of other companies (PLEASE avoid the Hobby King kits for a first build!)

Ive said a few times that the most important thing about the first balsa build is making it fly regardless of how it looks. There are building skills to be learned and that first build is just to expose you to new concepts and methods. I would not recommend starting from just plans as that creates more work and complexity and increases the chances of not finishing the project. Set yourself up for success with a good kit that will help you achieve flight!

I assume you are watching the balsa build along and the progress people new to balsa are making. There is a lot to be learned from what these guys are doing, poke your nose in and ask any questions you have, I'll be happy to help you any way that I can.

 

[mikeporterinmd]

I'm finding that for flying indoors in a smallish gym, I need planes lighter (lower wing load) than most FT planes. I tried a mini-scout and had a heck of a time with it. A friend who is much more experienced could fly it, but said it was quite difficult and that I would have a hard time. For now, I am going with the hobbyzone sport cub s (the smallest 4 channel one), but I can see myself building one of the lightweight balsa kits later on.

I'm sure the mini-scout will fly outdoors or in a really large indoor venue, but a single court gym is a little tight.

Mike

 

[Snowblind]

I believe this thread has been shown what becomes of someone when they have a truly bad balsa experience, feel burned, and don't want to try again.

Research and Forethought will always help, think deeply before making a cut or gluing something, and just when you think you're done thinking, start over, and be sure that you have chosen wisely.

 

[rockyboy]

For some great balsa 3 channel indoor planes that are suitable for newer thumbs, check out https://www.stevensaero.com/nostalgia-laser-cut-kits/

He also makes a couple nice larger sized trainer kits https://www.stevensaero.com/Radio-Control-Trainers/ but Joker's Telemaster recommendation is a very good way to go. Lots of support in the community for building and flying that one.

 

[SoylentGreen4579]

I'm just going to go ahead and disagree with almost all of this. While balsa is generally more work than DTFB, the experience and finished product are well worth the effort. I have built a dozen planes from the foam, but I've gotten far more satisfaction out of balsa. Knowing how to use both balsa and various foam mediums in a build is the step beyond that, where you get the best of both worlds.

The J3 Cub is undoubtedly a classic, but there are better flying trainers in that style. Unless somebody really wants a Cub in the hangar I'd lean towards something like the Telemaster from kit or plans.

To give my input to the original question posted, there are good 3 channel balsa trainers out there, but you get far more choices if you open that up to 4 channel designs. In 3channel the first one I can think of is the Telemaster. I built the 4 channel version and it flies incredibly well. The 3 channel version only differs with the wing so I would expect similar performance. In 4 channels you could get kits from Mountain Models or plenty of other companies (PLEASE avoid the Hobby King kits for a first build!)

Ive said a few times that the most important thing about the first balsa build is making it fly regardless of how it looks. There are building skills to be learned and that first build is just to expose you to new concepts and methods. I would not recommend starting from just plans as that creates more work and complexity and increases the chances of not finishing the project. Set yourself up for success with a good kit that will help you achieve flight!

I assume you are watching the balsa build along and the progress people new to balsa are making. There is a lot to be learned from what these guys are doing, poke your nose in and ask any questions you have, I'll be happy to help you any way that I can.

been designing, building, flying and teaching all of the above for about 20 years.
when I was a low hours noob teaching myself how to fly, stick built kits were almost all there was.
I look at the DTFB methods of the FT fleet and really wish I had that when I was a low hours pilot like the OP is.

will balsa provide a better plane? in most cases, yes.
will it live longer in unskilled hands? ... no
would the skills gained from DTFB and EPP planes transfer to a higher performance balsa build? yes.

there is the core argument behind my advice ... the OP DID in fact disclose that he was a low time pilot.
why perpetuate the now largely unnecessary 20+ hour builds for things going into a high mortality environment?
that makes more quitters than pilots

 

[Turbojoe]

I'm new to RC and have very limited stick time. That being said, I truely enjoy building. So far I have built 5 dtfb planes and have learned a lot. I have also made different types of wings and remade parts for existing planes. Winter is upon us all and thought this would be a good time to broaden the horizon and learn some new skills. I am looking for a sturdy, easy to build, balsa or wood plane that would be a good trainer (3 channel). I am not looking to do a scale or anything crazy. What would you recommend as a good plane to start? A kit or just plans? Any and all information is welcome, and as always thanks for the support.

Why do you have to be on the other side of the country from me? I have planes that I'd give you AND help you learn to fly if you were local. Before you ask, shipping is out of the question.... If you want a great flying 3 channel bird that builds in no time then look at this link. HERE. The base Dandy is a combo of a cheap, 3 channel, easy build, trainer and glider in one. A really laid back design that you can later add the sport wing or GT wing to as your skills progress. I still throw that old "glider" wing on my Dandy from time to time to in early summer to really enjoy some thermals and long leisurely motor off flying. If you can crash and actually damage a base Dandy then it's possible that R/C flying is not for you.

Joe

 

[TTF]

Joker and Turbo Joe, both of you recommended the Dandy, what power set up would you use, prop on back. The site isn't that specific.

 

[earthsciteach]

Balsa planes are special. Foam planes are disposable. Don't be afraid of balsa. The effort is worth it.

 

[Joker 53150]

The Dandy I built for my dad uses a stick-mounted bell motor from Hobby King, HERE, where the motor is mounted on a square stick/post:




Stick-mounting isn't that common these days, but both the Dandy was designed when it was normal. You COULD modify the Dandy slightly to use a flat mount, but when this motor is less than $7.00 it doesn't make sense to me to spend the time or effort. On 3 cells with an 8x4 slow-fly prop this motor will fly the Dandy around easily at 1/2 throttle all day long.

If you look at the instructions for the Dandy, Switchback, or any of the "older" MM designs you'll find this stick-mount layout. Their EVA design came out after the flat surface for the "X" mount became common, but MM decided to include both styles with the kit allowing builders to choose what they want.

 

[Turbojoe]

Joker and Turbo Joe, both of you recommended the Dandy, what power set up would you use, prop on back. The site isn't that specific.

The Dandy was designed around the GWS geared 300/350 brushed motor setup. They're as rare as hens teeth now. You can still find the Himax geared setups for decent deals and I love those packages but they're more expensive than a basic outrunner now. Brian sells an outrunner adapter for the stick mount that works really well. For the Dandy I'd shoot for 100 watts or LESS. It's light and doesn't need a ton of power. A 15 amp ESC would be good and 1000/1300mah 3S LiPo would be good although for relaxed flying I'll bet a 3S 800mah pack would still give good flight time. Use a Wattmeter and prop to match motor specs.

Joe

 

[Turbojoe]

Dang it! Posted too slow again!

Joe

 

[Joker 53150]

Since the Dandy was brought up, here's the MM Dandy I built for my dad a year or two ago (green & silver) next to my MM Switchback Sport. At first glance they look completely different, I consider them non-identical twins.

They are both 4 channel (with the wings shown) and use all the same electronics.

They both allow the builder to swap wings for completely different flight styles.

They use the exact same wing although the Dandy mounts the servo on top of the wing while the Switchback mounts it to the bottom.

The fuselages are designed and built in a similar manner, but the Dandy puts the wing on top while the Switchback has it on the bottom, so the battery goes in the bottom of the Dandy and the top of the Switchback.

The Switchback layout leaves room for the canopy.

Tail surfaces on the Dandy are simple sheet design while the Switchback uses the laser cut sticks to build up the surfaces.




At the time of this picture, the Switchback has already had major nose surgery after going head-first into a frozen-solid snowbank. It took a couple hours to patch in some new balsa and re-cover it, but looking at it now you can't tell it was ever crashed. Not long after the picture my dad did the same to his Dandy, and today only he and I know it was damaged. I wasn't there when he crashed it and he didn't tell me about it until after we met at the field and I was done flying it. I'd have never known!

 

[Joker 53150]

A 15 amp ESC would be good and 1000/1300mah 3S LiPo would be good although for relaxed flying I'll bet a 3S 800mah pack would still give good flight time.

I've found that the 1000mAh 3 cell packs work best on my Switchback, purely on size/weight alone. With my Switchback I just stuff it as far forward on the battery try as possible and it's perfect for 8-9 minutes of flight. The 800 would be too light in the nose. The Dandy would probably benefit from the extra weight of the 1300mAh pack, but my dad doesn't have that size so he just uses 1000s and can easily go 10 minutes if he's just cruising at 1/2 power.

Either plane can easily handle the weight of a 1300, so if you've got 'em, use 'em!

 

[TTF]

Joker what size each for the motor. And I have 3s 2200

 

[Joker 53150]

Joker what size each for the motor. And I have 3s 2200

The motor is a 1300 kv. A 2200 3S is way too big for planes this size, but 1000mAh 3 cells are cheap.

 

[TTF]

What size esc