noob - I can't stay in the air, about to go big or go home.

[OrangutangSurfer]

I've tried to post this but every time it's so long I don't want to discourage people from reading it. but I'll try again..

I built 4 planes, FT Flyer, FT22, Old speedster and a spitfire.
I bought 2 sets of electronics from hobby king:

1.) hextronik 24g 1300kv motor, 15-18a esc, 1500mah 3s battery
2.) NTM 2826 1200kv motor, Turnigy AE-20A esc, 2200mah 3s battery

The plan was to fly the old speedster and FT Flyer and get some "air" time and get a little familiar with the controls. I've posted elsewhere on the forum regarding my trouble with the wind and I think that was the most of my problem. I felt the FT22 and FT flyer were both "under powered" (at least for the conditions).

IT was less windy today so despite the cold I had to know if these things could fly. The FT flyer might have done well today if I didn't try to modify the wings to reduce the surface area to make it less susceptible to the wind, I cut it to a little more than half and added a KF airfoil similar to the delta. It took of easily but didn't fly any better. The old speedster did much better. I ditched the landing gear and hand launched it. It flew ok I did my best to keep it moving in a circle to the right but it was hard too keep straight, I think the breeze today was still to much for it.

If somebody asked me what I thought my problem was this is my answer.

1.) the FT22 and FT Flyer don't feel like they have enough power. both planes fought the wind and neither had enough "oomph" to get any real altitude. Every time I tried to point up, even just a mild climb, the wind would catch the plan and force it in to some small dive, dip or spin that, if I was high enough, I could get out of. and if it didn't do that it hardly made any headway as I pointed it in to the wind.

2.) the old speedster doesn't like the breeze. It flew ok with the same motor and prop on the planes above, it also doesn't like speed. I had to fly half throttle tops just to keep it from trying to climb. Turns were terrible and the plane was a menace to keep steady in a cross wind and turns. I made about 3 circles before I wasn't able to keep it in the air any longer and i broke the prop and the "o" ring that held it on... no extra "o" rings had to call it a day.

3.) I'm very confident that I can steer a plane, I have yet to do a loop, roll or spin of any sort, but I'd settle for a smooth ride in a circle right now. this invisible wind combat is killing me. I'm extremely tempted to take the spitfire out for a run with the heavier setup and bigger battery. from what I'm reading, the weight of the plane should handle better in the conditions.


Am I missing something? I know I'm still new at flying but I'm not trying to do stunts and if you saw how I recovered from being pushed around in this wind you'd see I have enough skill to fly in a circle. I'm 3 planes in and I have still yet to be able to burn through a whole battery. I expected to crash but I also expected to spend more time in the air than chasing my plane down ever time it crashed.

Should I just go take the spit fire out? or am I going to meet the same fate? do these fomies fair well in the wind? I see them fly in the wind on flightiest reviews often, granted they have more skill but how much does it really take to make it go straight???

I spent a lot of time on the spit fire and I know eventually it will meet the same fate, but I'd like to go through several batteries before it's time to build a new one. not 5 minutes of flying 😊

I've been an FT junkie for some time the only thing I can think of that I'm doing wrong is not having enough power for the breezy/windy conditions.

Any suggestions?

-Jes

PS i'm in the dallas/fort worth area, I don't know anyone else that flies planes to get face to face training/advice from.

 

[xuzme720]

My home office is in Dallas but I rarely get up there for anything more than a same day turnaround for Houston (home)or I'd say lets get together. It does sound like you might be underpowered if you are flying in that kind of wind. As you have already figured out, reducing the wings on the flyer doesn't help. What I did with mine is put a larger motor, Emax 2822 1200KV with a GWS 8x5 prop and a 1300mAh 3S battery. I use that in the wind all the time. It's bone stock with tape covering, and while it's still a handful in heavy wind, it is definitely controllable. Some additional weight on your planes in the manner of more power can definitely help with wind, both with stability and penetration. Just be advised, too much weight can be bad in a crash so don't go too crazy.
Hope this helps some and if I am going to be in Dallas for more than an hour or 2, I'll try to let you know.

 

[rcspaceflight]

The Old Speedster doesn't fair well in the wind. It's just the way the plane is.

I've never used one, the the hextronik 24gram motor seems a bit underpowered. I know it's recommended for those planes and is very similar to the blue wonder. But over powered is better than underpowered because you can pull out of bad situations. I recommend using your second set up on the FT Flyer and FT F-22.

Wait for a very calm day to fly the Old Speedster and wait on the Spitfire until you have some good flights under your belt.

Since you altered your FT Flyer, build a new one.

I wonder if you've done something to make your builds heavier? Did you use Dollar Tree foam board or a different brand? Did you cover the plane with anything? If you made the planes heavier, it certainly could cause the underpower you're having. But even if they are heavy, it's fine, just go with the second, more powerful set up you have.

 

[Epitaph]

I would suggest that you learn from the wind rather than fight it. Try making a plane that actually uses the wind to it's advantage, like a motorglider. The logic isn't to forget all the planes you have now, but rather learn how the wind acts at different altitudes ans geological circumstances. With a glider you can see well how turbulence acts on the plane, what to do to counteract it, learn to anticipate what will happen to the wind effect if you fly "over there near the trees", that kind of stuff. Maybe the power on the other planes is too low for where you fly, but power isn't everything... Pirelli said something along those lines in one of their old commercials, like "power means nothing without control".

Indeed weight has a lot to do with it. On the slope for example, the windier it is, the more ballast you add to counteract. You can see this for example on a windy day by throwing a scrumpled piece of paper and a stone... The power you thow it with is the same but the stone being heavier uses that power better to penetrate. Too much motor on a plane without the appropriate ballast is not good, which is why there is a general power to weight ratio for different types of model, with minimum and maximum figures... If weight were not an issue, then there would only be minimum figures. Some people like doing crazy power things, but usually regret it sooner or later, I've seen people trying to outfit an Easystar to get above 250km/h, which in my mind is stupid, like trying to drive Formula1 with a Ford Ka!! Those that do make their Easystar reach that kind of speed don't usually see it last long, as the structure isn't made for it and the power to weight is totally off for that kind of model!!

"All to be the Master of the Wind" - Manowar

 

[OrangutangSurfer]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I'm going to try the Delta with that hextronik motor. I think part of my problem is that I went with a larger battery a 1500mah instead of the 800mah or even 1300mah - and I think the landing gear was also a bit heavier than it should have been. all that with that little hextronik motor and some wind caused it to be under powered. I've put an NTM 2826 1200kv motor on the FT22, gonna hopefully give that a try later today.

For the record I'm only using dollar tree foam board, no extra tape, no paint, nothing to weigh it down other than the bare necessities

 

[ViperTech]

Did I miss what prop you are using? I did not see one listed in your first post, I fly the speedster with a hobby king donkey ST2004-1550kv and 1500 Mah 3s and I use a 8x4 slow prop. Now I admit the speedster (at least mine ) likes to turn left HARD! so I had to set the rudder off to the right but it has plenty of power I run at 1/2 throttle or less and can stay up for 10 min+. I use a prop saver but the o-rings they come with are lack luster, I use automotive o-rings. How is your CG? That is where I had the biggest problems with my flyer and speedster too tail heavy! I agree the speedster doesnt do well in the wind but I have flown mine in 5 to 7 mph winds, have to work at it but it will do it!

 

[rcspaceflight]

I also want to mention that I designed a plane that should be a great first plane and I've only flown it in wind with really good luck.

http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?6426-1-swappable-trainer

I see that not all of the build pictures are there.

I didn't get any video of the final version test plane, but I did fly it enough times to know it's a great plane for wind. I still want to make it into an article, I will redo the build in the article, but winter hit and hit hard right when I was working on getting some good flight footage.

I did fly that plane with a 2200mah 3S battery. So I flew it a touch heavy. But it seemed to really like that weight. I tried it once with a really small battery in the wind, and the wind took it. I've also tried my design too heavy/underpowered and it didn't fair ware well. So it's always a balance of finding the right weight for an airframe.

 

[Epitaph]

Now I admit the speedster (at least mine ) likes to turn left HARD! so I had to set the rudder off to the right

You probably don't have enough right incidence on your motor mount for the power of motor you have fitted. If you have the motor bell mounted behind the firewall, you can correct it by removing the right hand screw that fixes the motor to the firewall, and fit it with a washer between the ply and the motorbell... If the motor bell is mounted in front of the firewall, then you do it with the left screw. Just add as many washers as needed. A motor should be looking slightly down and to the right to compensate the prop turn.

 

[OrangutangSurfer]

Did I miss what prop you are using? I did not see one listed in your first post, I fly the speedster with a hobby king donkey ST2004-1550kv and 1500 Mah 3s and I use a 8x4 slow prop. Now I admit the speedster (at least mine ) likes to turn left HARD! so I had to set the rudder off to the right but it has plenty of power I run at 1/2 throttle or less and can stay up for 10 min+. I use a prop saver but the o-rings they come with are lack luster, I use automotive o-rings. How is your CG? That is where I had the biggest problems with my flyer and speedster too tail heavy! I agree the speedster doesnt do well in the wind but I have flown mine in 5 to 7 mph winds, have to work at it but it will do it!

I was using a 9x4.7 slow fly but i have since realized I don't need so much thrust and I plan on ordering some 8x4SF props. I'm also thinking of scratch building an old fogey. I don't recall them saying anything about the left tendency, though the speedster certainly looks cooler I think. At this point I've given up looking cool and I just want to stay in the air until the battery dies HAHAH. I've got a hextronik 1300kv 24g motor that seemed to do ok and a 1500mah battery I was worried about the weight but it was the wind that made it so hard. so I'll put together an old fogey wait for a calm day and give it another go.

-Jes

PS I put a 1450kv NTM 2826 motor on my F22 it flew fast but there was too much slop in my control surfaces (home made control horns and long bendy pushrods) I lost control and put it in a tree. I have since found a MUCH larger flying area and will refrain from overpowering until I get a little better handle on things. (I fished it outta the tree tonight and saved all but the battery)

 

[Bedrock]

As a quick and easily repaired plane...try the FT Delta, it seemed to handle the wind better (no diehedral) and I have had a lot of fun with mine. It crashed it a lot, and it's survived, but the ground has been very soft here. Your electronics should swop right in. Crashes have been pilot error bye the way - not wind induced!

 

[OrangutangSurfer]

As a quick and easily repaired plane...try the FT Delta, it seemed to handle the wind better (no diehedral) and I have had a lot of fun with mine. It crashed it a lot, and it's survived, but the ground has been very soft here. Your electronics should swop right in. Crashes have been pilot error bye the way - not wind induced!

Not a bad idea. I've been trying to think what would be best to take out next. I think I have some "build" issues with the speedster, it flies terribly, probably should have done the old fogey, I don't want to pretty up another F22 just to smash it up again and I don't dare fly this awesome spitfire. I put lots of time in to make as perfect as possible until I know I can stay airborne. I'll give the delta a shot. i was looking at my 24g motor today and i think it has a slight wobble, I suppose I'll fly it till it burns up but I'm worried it might have something to do with the feeling of my plane being underpowered. I'm gonna order some more stuff I have a finicky ESC and I killed a battery, I got my F22 stuck in a tree for 3 days before I could go get it out. all electronics are good less the battery. I think I want to step up the motor a tad and i've seen several recommendations for the turnigy 2822 1450kv for the FT fomies i'm gonna get that and a decent ESC.

any other recommendations for a good motor prop combo that wouldn't be over kill but better than the 24g option?

one more thought I though instead of the delta could do the bloody wonder, supposed to track nice and still fly with a small motor plus it would be cool to learn the plan and then add more power later and already be familiar with the plane. not sure if it would be too much harder to fly than the delta with the same power pod. any thoughts?

 

[xuzme720]

The 28xx's are what I use on most of my planes. Good power range and plenty of KV choices for versatility. I'll second the bloody wonder. Great flying airplane but take it easy at first until you get the hang of it. Flat out it's a great combat ship which means it's Maneuverable! Toned down a bit it is a really nice plane and a blast to fly. Just take it easy on the left stick until the right knows what's up!

 

[OrangutangSurfer]

As a quick and easily repaired plane...try the FT Delta, it seemed to handle the wind better (no diehedral) and I have had a lot of fun with mine. It crashed it a lot, and it's survived, but the ground has been very soft here. Your electronics should swop right in. Crashes have been pilot error bye the way - not wind induced!

I built a delta today and had yet another disaster, before I crashed I must have built a solid one and dialed it in preflight to a T. I hand launched it and it went straight as an arrow but in to the sun .. went to turn slight left and it went right!! managed to belly land it (best landing i ever had so far) so not thinking I reversed the channels and sent it up again. but no the elevator was reversed and I went head first.. didn't break anything, just smashed the nose in and tore up the power pod a little but all still flyable. came home un reversed it and switched the servos on the receiver, everything checks out now probably gonna head out tomorrow to try it again.

for what little it flew I could already tell I am going to have a better time flying the delta than anything else at this point. I probably would have been fine with the F22 and I think it probably is better cause the motor is more protected but the delta like you said is a quick build/fix and since I like to crash so often I fly this thing till I know what my real "in flight" skill level is.

-Jes

 

[xuzme720]

You forgot to "High five"...

 

[OrangutangSurfer]

I totally forgot to high five hahaah. I just used the same model mode on my receiver as I had setup on the F22 and didn't think it would be off. (shame on me)

I'm about to make another HK order, I need to replace the battery I burned up that got left in the tree for 3 days and I lost my prop mount for that NTM motor and a replacement esc cause the one I got did turn out to be faulty, and I doubt my hextronik 24g has many nose dives left in it. To make my shipping charges worth while I figured I'd add a turnigy 2822 1450kv motor it seems to be a step up from the blue wonder but not as powerful as the NTM 1200kv (Beef). I was going to get a HK 30a esc with a 3a ubec.

any thoughts on the turnigy motor? and is it OK to run a much larger ESC than needed? the motor, and stuff will only pull what it needs (so I hear) so I figured for only a couple bucks more why not stay on the safe side and go up to a 30a, I'm not counting every gram like those multi rotor guys so the weight difference doesn't bother me. Oh, and the UBEC is supposed to be better too.

thanks again Xuzme720 for the high five vid, i mentioned my disaster in another post and there was a link there for me too.. guess i need to study up some more

 

[xuzme720]

I like the Turnigy's and the NTM's. For the price you really can't beat them. You can spend a lot more and get a little better motor but it's a diminishing return, so if you aren't flying precision or hefting a full size DSLR, I say save a few bucks. Keep an eye on them and maintain them and you'll get a lot of life out of them.
If you aren't worried about the weight, I always error on the large side on power supply. Battery, ESC, etc. The stuff runs cooler with more headroom and you can never go wrong with more amperage on the BEC. Less chance of brownouts or dropouts as well.

 

[Flynn]

The 28xx's are what I use on most of my planes. Good power range and plenty of KV choices for versatility. I'll second the bloody wonder. Great flying airplane but take it easy at first until you get the hang of it. Flat out it's a great combat ship which means it's Maneuverable! Toned down a bit it is a really nice plane and a blast to fly. Just take it easy on the left stick until the right knows what's up!

I'll third the Bloody Wonder! Last year, I flew it with an eflite park 370 and a 2200 mah mounted inside the power pod. I got some compliments on how nice it flew in the wind. And I was getting 25 minutes of flight time. Start with low rates for sure. Fast or slow, it flew nice.

 

[OrangutangSurfer]

Flynn, that motor looks comparable to the D2822/14 I just ordered... and I have a couple 2200 3s 25c batteries I was saving for my spitfire... looks like I'll have to build a Bloody Wonder soon!! how was the glide on it? Did you use landing gear? what size prop?

I mounted my 1500mah in side the FT delta but it was pretty cramped, I need servo and battery extension (in the mail) then it might fit a little better. I would definitely do the same with the bloody wonder.

-Jes

 

[OrangutangSurfer]

Painted up the delta out to look pretty good as I crash tomorrow. heheh actually I hope to get a decent flight for the first time tomorrow, low wind warmish weather. wish me luck! my metallic red came out more pink, it was a little weak in my airbrush, i don't think it was thinned enough. anyway as long as I can tell top from bottom that ought to help out.



Before and after my F22. I knocked it out of the tree from about 40+ feet. I had a 20 foot extension pole with a 10ft pvc on the end and I had to tape a second PVC on the bottom to get that last 5 feet all while standing on a 6 foot ladder.

 

[rcspaceflight]

I thought xuzme720 would get a kick out of this screenshot I took earlier today (technically yesterday).