noob needs help - nutball

[jhite]

Obviously from the title, it's a nutball. I've got a C pack on it with a 9x4.5 prop, 850 mah 3s. And it's my first plane. I have the flyer and the delta as well from the 3 pack. Plus I already scratch built a F22, mini mustang, versawing, and arrow while waiting for Christmas to get here. None of those are finished and ready to go yet though.
So, for starters, I don't know what I'm doing. I can fly quads, but I've never ever flown a plane before. Unless you count the two 40ft crash takeoffs I had today.
So what's happening is as soon as it gets up in the air it's banking left and before I can do anything (because I suck) it's back into the ground yard sale fashion. Not that I know what to do because it's got no ailerons. I'm trying not to give it much throttle. CG is good. I've been hand launching it. It seems fine at first but once it starts rolling it won't stop. It was a little windy but not more than 5 or 6 mph. The second time I tried I would say there was less wind and the crash was actually worse.
I have a theory that maybe it's just too much motor/prop and it's torquing it over? Is that possible? I didn't want to try again until I figure out what going on with it. Everything looks straight and even as far as the wings, tail, and dihedral/polyhedral/whateveritis go. I don't see a visual reason for it to be rolling and I didn't feel like the wind was strong enough to have the effect it was having, but I obviously know nothing.
The only other props I have that I could try are 6x4.5 and 6x3 and I'm not sure if they would be enough? Or maybe I just need to order a B pack and some 8 inch props? Or something else? Besides not knowing how to fly, I don't know very much about matching motors and props to planes either. But hey, at least I know what I don't know.
Any help is appreciated. Chances are you will tell me exactly what is wrong, I won't listen, and this plane will be gone tomorrow But I'll post pictures if that happens.
Thanks.

 

[Grifflyer]

it sounds like prop torque, try putting in some right thrust. And that's a big motor for a nutball!

 

[makattack]

I would add that a nutball is a more difficult plane to fly out of the triple pack. If you have the FT Flyer, I would recommend that as the first plane to try out when learning fixed wing.

As for whether torque roll is what you're experiencing or something else, you mentioned trying to not give too much throttle input. I suspect if you say putting it into a turn leads to a hard to control roll, that could mean you have a CG issue, or it could mean you have too much control authority. Maybe try limiting rates and adding expo. I am still suspecting a CG issue. I had a tail heavy plane that flew fine straight, but as soon as I used only rudder to turn/yaw, the nose dropped significantly. Once I moved the battery forward more, it was great.

 

[jhite]

I think I'm going to combine these two answers. I'll build the flyer and put the pod on that and try it. I already limited rates to begin with but I added expo after the second attempt. I did it by feel instead of just going with the 30% recommendation I see on the videos. I think I ended up in the 40s on one and 50% on the other before it "felt" better by the way it looked based on the input I was giving. I have no idea what I'm judging that off of but meh, we'll see. If I'm still having the same problem I'll take the pod from the flyer and add some right thrust to it and move the motor over and give that a try. The mini mustang has some thrust angle built into it. I'll copy that.
For the CG, based on where the marks are on the wings, the first time I was dead level and the second time it had a little more forward lean to it. Where do you suggest?
I'm also going to tie down the battery better because I'm not convinced it's staying put either.

 

[jhite]

I think I'm going to add more angle to the wings as well. I'm not sure I have enough to give it the stability it needs for a fixed wing. Thinking out loud.

 

[ViperTech]

Well everyone is correct, Motor combo too big for the nut ball and it will be for the ft flier also. What you have is torque roll caused by the air flow over the body of the plane. The corkscrew motion of air over the surface causes the roll. Most fixed wing planes suffer this most on take off but with the large surface areas on the nut ball and the FT flier it is there all the time and worse with more throttle. Smaller prop will help as you don't need a lot of power to fly these planes. Some down and right thrust angle on the motor will help but throttle control is what will make it fly. I don't know how you have the controls set up but even though the planes have just a rudder control you can put that on the right stick just like ailerons... makes it easier to control. The CG you mentioned, perfect balance is great! a little nose down is fine, tail down BAD! For first flights a little nose heavy is safer. Here is a picture of my flier and the little "blue wonder" motor that powers it. Really don't need a power hose to fly it.

 

[jhite]

Thanks, I've got the flyer together and I may try a smaller prop for now... but I woke up this morning and just went ahead and ordered a smaller motor and props. I'm going to try to keep the rudder on the left stick if I can, just for the sake of learning it on the "correct" stick. I was foolishly thinking I'd just get the bigger motor to start with, learn to fly on these little planes, and then move the pod over to some bigger planes and it would be fine. I guess two weeks of watching videos doesn't actually teach you everything about flight and model planes Live and learn. Having fun anyway.

 

[basslord1124]

I think torque roll is a good possibility, so go with what the others said about that. Especially if it's doing it before you apply any addition controls. Use washers on the motor mount to get the motor pointed in the direction you need. Do it a little at a time though. So try one first and see how it responds, then just add additional as needed. Also, I'd make sure all trims and surfaces are neutral. Launch at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle. Also with planes, very little movement is needed on the sticks to get it to fly good. It's easy to over control as a beginner, so try and practice with being easy with the controls. Eventually you will get it.

 

[jjohnson98]

I'm going to try to keep the rudder on the left stick if I can, just for the sake of learning it on the "correct" stick.

I started out thinking the same thing and in my opinion it's the wrong way to go.
All the muscle memory you build up with flying a 3-channel plane with throttle on the left stick and all control on the right stick and will transfer over to using ailerons on a 4-channel and elevons on a wing extremely well.
Trying to learn 3-channel with "rudder" on the left stick just makes it confusing and harder to learn to being with.
I figured that out the hard way.

 

[jhite]

Thanks, I will keep that in mind if I can't get it. So far I haven't even gotten that far so I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I'm pretty sure I can swap it in my radio... I think. But I'm used to flying quads and copters with yaw on that stick so hopefully it will be alright. But like I said, if not, I'll remember what you said and switch it.

 

[makattack]

The difference between yaw on a multirotor vs a fixed wing aircraft is that the forward flight of the aircraft generally will cause the plane to roll with the yaw. What I do with my 3 channel planes is make the rudder operated by the roll stick / aileron channel up to about 50% and program the rudder or yaw stick be additive to the same channel to go up to full 100% throw.

 

[jhite]

Well I managed to "fly" a plane. I got the B pack and put together the delta. After a couple false starts I actually flew the plane around in a controlled manner. Was too windy to go above the tree line and then depth perception got the better of me and I hit a tree branch. But up until that point I was flying. The batteries are definitely moving around on me though, velcro isn't cutting it. At least not he crap I have. Going to have to do something different there and try again. Dollar General here I come

 

[mikeporterinmd]

A standard FT Nutball is much heavier than the spec as published on rcgroups by the designer. Also, the motor should be mounted differently. Mine weighs about 200 grams and is quite fun to fly.

Mike