Old Fogey's first flight (sort of) -- learned the importance of programmable rates!

[Mostly Harmless]

Hi all;

Back into RC flying after a short (28 year) hiatus. Things have changed a bit from my days of flying glow engine planes...

Built the Old Fogey using the Speed Build kit and the Altitude Hobbies Combo pack (Suppo 2208/17 1100kv Brushless Motor , Park 370 equiv.), an 8x4 prop, and a 3S 500 mA battery. The plane balanced out nicely at the CG. Push rods were installed at the outer holes of the control horns and the middle of the servo arms.

Being somewhat uncertain how much I'd stay with flying, again, I went inexpensive on the radio, using a Hobby King HK6S system... non-programmable rates.

Well, my first attempt could only be called flying in the most charitable sense -- it stayed above the ground for more time than it would take to fall. Sure, I've been out of the game for a while, so my skills were rusty, but over-control was a serious issue. Even the slightest stick input caused wild oscillations. And one of the wheel pants dragged on take-off, rotating it around 270 degrees to be more of an air scoop than anything else. After weaving drunkenly around the skies for 30 seconds, I managed to put it down in one piece in some tall grass.

Thinking that the landing gear might have been the issue, I removed it, and put the battery forward all the way -- maybe a bit of nose-down balance might help. Getting one of the local club members to hand launch, I tried two more flights -- pretty much the same results.

Figuring I needed more practice time, I downloaded FMS and the Old Fogey model. Using a straight linear control response (with my transmitter for the controller), I couldn't do much better on the simulator... VERY small control inputs induced the same sorts of extreme responses in the simulation that I saw on the real thing. However, when I used the software to produce an exponential response (FMS doesn't allow you to adjust, it's either linear or exponential), I was able to maintain control and could easily take-off and land without any mishaps. Perhaps I hadn't lost too much of my flying skills after all.

My interpretation -- not sure how much of a conclusion I can draw from flying the simulator, but...
1) The Fogey's control surface size combined with a relatively short body make it a bit sensitive, especially considering its light weight. (My gas airplanes of the past generally had longer bodies, and were quite a bit heavier).
2) Skimping on the radio was a mistake -- the ability to control rates, especially for a beginner (or someone who hasn't flown in a while) is a huge help.
3) Wheel pants are a bad idea on grass runways.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thus, I've ordered a new radio (FlySky FS-T6... programmable) and will install that and try again. The radio is due in today, and I will hopefully get a chance to put it in the air this weekend -- I'll report back.

 

[JohnRambozo]

That's a great looking Fogey. Darnit, I wasn't going to but now I have to build one myself.

If you're still having trouble after you get the new transmitter, I'd suggest moving the control arms from the middle of the servo arm closer to the servo. I don't have a Fogey, but I'm happy with my Spitfire's responsiveness with my linkage stoppers mounted on the suggested 2nd hole from the center. You'll get less throw that way. Less is more. And welcome back to the air!

 

[ViperTech]

Beautiful Fogey! I have 2 of them and they are a lot of fun! The design of the wing causes the oscillation, this really should be a trainer plane as it just wants to fly straight and it acts like a pendulum as it flies under that big ol' wing. It really doesn't want to go fast walking speed is just fine and it doesn't like much wind. I have tried to loop mine and the one time I dove down to gain speed and snapped the elevator back it pulled up so hard the battery ejected(cheap Chinese Velcro) and the darn thing leveled out and flew 150 yards all by it's self with me chasing after it, LOL! I fly mine with full elevator rate and 70% rudder, the big thing is do every thing slow with this bird cuz that is what she is big and slow. OH and loose the pants on grass not worth the hassle, make a standard landing gear for grass use 3" wheels keep the pants for display or asphalt runways! Welcome aboard! any questions ask away!
Here is a video of one of my Fogeys this one was still a little tail heavy at the time.

 

[pgerts]

Hi all; Back into RC flying after a short (28 year) hiatus. ...

Love your story - i can almost see your flight in my mind.

It took me 35 years to come back. Stopped at 16 when i moved to own living and trying to earn some money.

I have only tried the Dusty of the FT planes but i have built a lot foamies before FT started.
Yes - they are twitchy compared to old trainers. Low rates = close on the servo usually is the way. You do not really need the dual/expo unless you want 3D. A nice transmitter is always fun - do not go to low. I started with a DX7 (20 models), got a DX 8 with 30 models - seems to need a DX9 with some more ;-)

Try to find your old glow planes and get back. (Guess it was glow and not gas?)

 

[rcspaceflight]

Sounds like you could use less throw on the control surfaces. Everybody flies different and prefers different things. Just because FT suggests a certain amount of throw doesn't mean you have to go with it.

I know some people absolutely need expo, then others like me don't use it. But again, everybody is different.

Glad you learned that you need expo and are getting a radio with it. Hopefully you'll be back in the air and enjoying it in no time.

 

[Ron B]

I also have the hk 6s and knew from the start that very little stick movement was the way to go.
I have just gotten a orange t-six and am still learning how to program it as I have never had a dual rate or expo tx before except for the spectrum 4 with its dual rates and even then I have just changed the servo arm holes on it and flown it on high rate only.
I like the looks of your old fogey.

 

[ktmrocks]

I agree on the programmable radio. I have a Spektrum DX8 and let me tell you, I thought my wife was going to kill me when she found out what it cost! I too am getting back into the hobby after a 15 year hiatus, though back then, I mostly flew control line planes.

Bottom line, I'm glad I spent the extra money (and marital capital:black_eyed and got the DX8 it's really helped me to tame more than a few aircraft.

Great build! I am really impressed with your Old Fogey, makes me want to build on.

Good luck!

 

[Mostly Harmless]

OK, much better flight this time around. Couldn't move the control rods any further in on the servo arms... Installed the new radio and programmed the rates down to ~40%, with a bit of expo thrown in. The aircraft still wants to float, even with a bit of nose-down weight. On the third flight, I added a 2S 1600 mAh battery pack inside just for extra weight (centered on the CG so it didn't change the balance), and flew with a 3S 500 mAh battery, and that seemed to do the trick nicely, although she still likes to float. Unfortunately, in spite of 2 previous decent landings, on the last flight, I flared a bit early, then dropped it, so not the most graceful landing... but I left with the same number of pieces that I started with, so I won't complain.

Not the best video (my wife's cell phone camera), but at least documents a better flight.

Now, on to another aircraft! Need to figure out which to build next...

 

[JohnRambozo]

Great flight. Go for a warbird. They're so much fun.

 

[ViperTech]

Looking Good! Keep plugging at it! I would suggest a aileron plane, the spitfire is nice, I am testing the P-51 right now, kind of on the fence about it, I tried the duster HATE it!
FT needs to put a top wing aileron swappable plane out for people getting in or back into the hobby.