Pilot skill levels?

[SSgt Duramax]

I see tossed around that some plane or trinket is good for a beginner, intermediate, or advanced pilot. How do you determine what your skill level is?

Is it what kind of plane you can fly? What bad tendencies you can deal with? If you can fly a plane that is a flying brick that does nasty tip stalls, does that make you an advanced pilot?

Is it what maneuvers you can pull off? Does being able to fly inverted nearly dragging your v stab across the ground and do 3d maneuvers in a trainer the gold standard of a good pilot?

What about setting up your equipment? I know that is half the battle, and in theory you could be good at setting up or building or whatever, and not be able to fly worth a darn.

For instance, I consider myself an intermediate pilot. I can do aerobatic maneuvers, safely land 95% of the time. Usually keep control or recover if something silly happens, fly some relatively twitchy planes, and some relatively fast ones. I'm still not comfortable with my really fast plane in a small area, but can manage.

I feel like each "level" if you will covers a large swath of things. A "beginner" may be someone struggling to fly a 3ch, or someone that can pretty successfully fly a 4ch plane on their own.

What do yall say?

 

[Flightspeed]

On my thread it got talked about it a bit, I made my own skillz ranking system. https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/mein-thread-a-scratch-build-a-month-challenge.69659/

By the beginner intermediate advanced I would but myself at just barely in advanced. I can do a prop hang a foot of the ground but as soon as I don’t give enough aileron and it starts to torque spin more than I can counter I’m outa there🤣

 

[tamuct01]

I think a lot determining skill level is observing what a particular plane is doing and knowing what to do about it. Beginner is all about understanding fundamental flight mechanics and learning the muscle memory associated with standard orientations. Intermediate would be moving into mild acrobatics and areas of flight outside the normal envelope. Dealing with planes that have some nasty tendencies near stall or require higher landing speeds. An expert would know how to handle all of these things and is completely comfortable with an airframe at all ends of the flight spectrum.

I don't think a person that is an expert on one plane is necessarily an expert on all flying things. My dad is great with planes but is terrible with quads and helicopters. I think that flying expertise can prepare a pilot to explore other airframes with a methodology that leads to success. You can see this in the FT videos. Bixler will typically maiden a new design by flying around in a sensible pattern getting a feel for a plane before taking it up higher and starting to perform aerobatics.

 

[Merv]

...How do you determine what your skill level is?...

Those who go to contests have a clear definition, everyone starts as a beginner, the first time you win a beginner class, you move to intermediate, when you win an intermediated class you move to the advanced class. The stuff the advanced guys do is absolutely breathtaking. I've seen them crash as well.

For us mere mortals, most move away form the trainer plane too soon. Most trainers are capable of doing far more that what is being asked from them. My recommendations is stay with the trainer, turn up the throws & move the slightly CG aft. You will have a completely different plane. When you can fly the trainer inverted across the field, then move on to a more advanced plane.

For me, there is a beginner and everyone else. The beginner is someone who is learning to fly. Once you learn the basics, just go have fun.

If you never crash, you are just not pushing the boundaries hard enough, you need more of a challenge.

 

[Flightspeed]

The main takeaway is that pretty much whatever your skill level is it’s absolute loads of fun. Other than maybe your first maiden and the crash that happens in the next split second there’s always that tremendous thrill of finnally succeeding. Remember that first time you greased a landing? And you flew for a ENTIRE battery with no sketchyness. The first time you fly something really fast. Just a week ago I finnaly managed to prophang to myself and just pick the plane out of the sky. What a rush… I think I would actually pay to become a beginner again u know. There’s nothing like that first successful maiden😉

 

[bisco]

i can fly and loop high wing planes without crashing. rolls are often difficult and sometimes lead to crashes, where does that put me?

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I see tossed around that some plane or trinket is good for a beginner, intermediate, or advanced pilot. How do you determine what your skill level is?

Is it what kind of plane you can fly? What bad tendencies you can deal with? If you can fly a plane that is a flying brick that does nasty tip stalls, does that make you an advanced pilot?

Is it what maneuvers you can pull off? Does being able to fly inverted nearly dragging your v stab across the ground and do 3d maneuvers in a trainer the gold standard of a good pilot?

What about setting up your equipment? I know that is half the battle, and in theory you could be good at setting up or building or whatever, and not be able to fly worth a darn.

For instance, I consider myself an intermediate pilot. I can do aerobatic maneuvers, safely land 95% of the time. Usually keep control or recover if something silly happens, fly some relatively twitchy planes, and some relatively fast ones. I'm still not comfortable with my really fast plane in a small area, but can manage.

I feel like each "level" if you will covers a large swath of things. A "beginner" may be someone struggling to fly a 3ch, or someone that can pretty successfully fly a 4ch plane on their own.

What do yall say?

I am guessing it's all down to perception. If you take a professional body like the BMFA (British Model Flying Association) your skill level depends on what level of accreditation you have passed with them.
At most model flying clubs in the UK you must pass a safe solo test, consisting of basic safety knowledge and basic maneuvers before they allow you to fly on your own. They also expect you to eventually take and pass your BMFA accredited tests, within a 12 months of passing your safe solo test.
These tests are not necessarily a fair measure of a person's flying ability. There are plenty of people out there who can fly any model you you put in front of them, yet hold none of the above certificates or taken any tests.
As for what constitutes a pilots skill level its subjective.
From my viewpoint:
A beginner is someone just starting out in the hobby, with rudimentary knowledge but not proficient enough that they should be flying solo. An intermediate is someone who has reached a level of proficiency that allows them in most instances to to fly solo safely (I say most instances because it depends on the plane they plan to fly).
An advanced intermediate is someone who is extremely proficiency and experienced and can fly most planes in various conditions.
Then you have advanced pilots etc
But there again it's just my opinion.

 

[Flightspeed]

Does the ama have anything like that?

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I started off in the days when there were no clubs I could attend, even so I didn't fly RC in those days too expensive anyway. I just built planes and flew control line or free flight.
Some years later back in the 1980's I joined a club and got into RC with a nitro powered aircraft, electric where just coming out and flew off big Nicad power packs and used gears to get extra power from the old brushed motors.
Then I had another break from the hobby and started getting back into it about 5 years ago starting off with a toy drone, progressing to where I am now.
I enjoy the hobby it's great fun, keeps my brain active and I get to talk to lots of like minded people too. It doesn't matter what level of skill you have when it comes to flying it the enjoyment of taking part that matters.
Where the real skill comes into the hobby is peoples ability to produce some amazing models. Particularly with little more than some foam board, glue and paint I am constantly gobsmacked by what people can produce hats off to all the builder keep them coming.

 

[SSgt Duramax]

Those who go to contests have a clear definition, everyone starts as a beginner, the first time you win a beginner class, you move to intermediate, when you win an intermediated class you move to the advanced class. The stuff the advanced guys do is absolutely breathtaking. I've seen them crash as well.

For us mere mortals, most move away form the trainer plane too soon. Most trainers are capable of doing far more that what is being asked from them. My recommendations is stay with the trainer, turn up the throws & move the slightly CG aft. You will have a completely different plane. When you can fly the trainer inverted across the field, then move on to a more advanced plane.

For me, there is a beginner and everyone else. The beginner is someone who is learning to fly. Once you learn the basics, just go have fun.

If you never crash, you are just not pushing the boundaries hard enough, you need more of a challenge.

That is true enough.

I've been flying a while, but every once in a while I still make a "rookie" mistake like not checking my control surfaces or getting directions mixed up while flying inverted or toward myself, zigging when I meant to zag.

Just the other day I tossed my only remaining kadet up and wondered why the rudder wasn't working. It was also my first flight since minwax. I effectively glued my rudder down. The plane still flew fine. Nothing bad happened, but rookie mistake. Now I have a loose rudder servo clunking around in the plane as the servo unseated itself from the foam.

As far as trainer planes, maybe you are right. I don't know what constitutes a trainer plane at this point. My high wing plane is the one that is a handful. My easiest flying plane is a twin engined slippery looking v-tail, and I also have a flying wing that isn't happy anywhere south of 35mph. I started flying on some high wing styrofoam plane, maybe it was hobbyzone, maybe it was some other brand. It was white with red stickers, and had a brushed motor with NIMH batteries. It would fly about 7 minutes before you had to charge the batteries for about 2 hours. Whatever was available in the 2005 timeframe. Then I built my first 4ch which was a spad, so it was a metal and plastic flying brick, but easy enough to fly, it was just a ground hugger. I crashed it and decided (of course) it needed a bigger motor. I still have a .61 laying around from it.

I figure just move up when you get bored and comfortable with your current plane. But if you have an aileron trainer, there is quite a bit you can do with it, just because a plane is a beginner plane, doesn't mean you can't do intermediate things in it. Like you said, you can take a quite basic plane, crank the rates a little bit, put in a bigger battery, adjust the CG, and it becomes a completely different plane.

I am guessing it's all down to perception. If you take a professional body like the BMFA (British Model Flying Association) your skill level depends on what level of accreditation you have passed with them.
At most model flying clubs in the UK you must pass a safe solo test, consisting of basic safety knowledge and basic maneuvers before they allow you to fly on your own. They also expect you to eventually take and pass your BMFA accredited tests, within a 12 months of passing your safe solo test.
These tests are not necessarily a fair measure of a person's flying ability. There are plenty of people out there who can fly any model you you put in front of them, yet hold none of the above certificates or taken any tests.
As for what constitutes a pilots skill level its subjective.
From my viewpoint:
A beginner is someone just starting out in the hobby, with rudimentary knowledge but not proficient enough that they should be flying solo. An intermediate is someone who has reached a level of proficiency that allows them in most instances to to fly solo safely (I say most instances because it depends on the plane they plan to fly).
An advanced intermediate is someone who is extremely proficiency and experienced and can fly most planes in various conditions.
Then you have advanced pilots etc
But there again it's just my opinion.

Yeah, I would just stick to flying in football fields if that is what I needed to go through.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

To be fair I knew how to fly from my flying days back in the 80's in my old club. I started up again by flying all sorts of foam board planes in the field behind my house. But when it came to being in a club with larger models I had lost my confidence, particularly flying in front of others. I got a lot of help and advice from my mate Bill which spurred me on.
When joined my present club I started having lessons again with a BMFA approved club trainer and finally got my confidence back. Excuse the pun, I flew through the basic proficiency test and have been flying on my own since.
We all make mistakes my favorite saying is "The person who never made a mistake, never made anything in life".
We all have favourite planes too and have others which are absolute pigs to fly. I like to take a good selection with me when I go to fly. I always have a couple of favourites, a couple to maiden and some pigs just to challenge me.
I see a lot of people flying the same plane time after time, that doesn't appeal to me. I need a variety of planes so that I am constantly challenged and I don't become too complacent flying the same plane time after time.
I have added the BMFA - A test video so you can see what's involved.

 

[bisco]

soccer fields and simple models have been enough to occupy me and keep me enthusiastic.

there's something for everyone in this hobby, but i wouldn't mind learning some skills from a good pilot.

 

[Ketchup]

I thought I'd share my take on this, as I have thought about it a bit before.
My answer (like my answer to a lot of things) is that it depends. Specifically, it depends on what you think is a desirable trait in a pilot. For some, it is just aerobatics (loops, rolls, hovering etc.), but for others it is being smooth or being able to escape difficult situations effectively. In my opinion, being a good pilot is at least a bit of all of these things. I used to think that being able to do a bunch of aerobatics and crazy stuff would make me a great pilot, but then I tried flying formation and had to practice being as smooth, controlled, and precise as I had ever done before. After a bit of this I saw great improvements in just my normal flying and my aerobatics, and realized that being able to do a rolling harrier isn't everything.
To me, a high level expert pilot should be able to control their airplane effectively and precisely when doing all kinds of things; aerobatics, formation flying, just cruising around, flying in high turbulence etc.
I believe that I am at a high intermediate level, as I can have a lot of control over an airplane when doing almost everything except some 3d and extreme aerobatics. I can get my plane out of all kinds of bad situations and even in a worst case scenario I can stop myself from panicking and I can make the right decision. For example, one time I lost control of one of my RC planes (esc failure coupled with a sketchy plane I think) and was at risk of hitting a full scale parked nearby. I kept a clear head and when I realized that my plane was unflyable, I managed to drive it into the ground before anybody got hurt or anything got damaged.
So I guess a more direct answer to your question may be in order.
Now remember that the following are just opinions.

Beginner:
Ranging from a person who hasn't ever flown before all the way to learning basic aerobatics and learning how to read the plane. A higher level beginner will start being able to fly by feel and should be able to tell things like when the plane is about to stall. They would also have most of their flying down to just muscle memory. I added in the basic aerobatics part because that just shows enough confidence in their abilities to attempt things other than flying in a straight line.

Intermediate:
This is also a range, and it starts at the "good beginner" level. The end is much higher, and by the time someone has reached this they have gained much more confidence and control of the aircraft. They can make good decisions in most cases that will not only maximize the chances of keeping the plane in the air, but they will also maximize bystander safety and reduce chances of property damage. This pilot can keep a clear head while flying and won't panic often. They may have learned some more aerobatics other than the basics, as by this point basic aerobatics will be just that: basic.

Expert:
A high level expert should be able to do all of the things that the intermediate can, but just better, more precise, and more consistent. This pilot will also be able to do more things with their aircraft than the intermediate and will generally have more confidence and control while doing these things.

I guess that's my system. I don't always follow it and it fails to consider quite a lot of stuff, but I think that it is ok for just being basic guidelines.

 

[SSgt Duramax]

I thought I'd share my take on this, as I have thought about it a bit before.
My answer (like my answer to a lot of things) is that it depends. Specifically, it depends on what you think is a desirable trait in a pilot. For some, it is just aerobatics (loops, rolls, hovering etc.), but for others it is being smooth or being able to escape difficult situations effectively. In my opinion, being a good pilot is at least a bit of all of these things. I used to think that being able to do a bunch of aerobatics and crazy stuff would make me a great pilot, but then I tried flying formation and had to practice being as smooth, controlled, and precise as I had ever done before. After a bit of this I saw great improvements in just my normal flying and my aerobatics, and realized that being able to do a rolling harrier isn't everything.
To me, a high level expert pilot should be able to control their airplane effectively and precisely when doing all kinds of things; aerobatics, formation flying, just cruising around, flying in high turbulence etc.
I believe that I am at a high intermediate level, as I can have a lot of control over an airplane when doing almost everything except some 3d and extreme aerobatics. I can get my plane out of all kinds of bad situations and even in a worst case scenario I can stop myself from panicking and I can make the right decision. For example, one time I lost control of one of my RC planes (esc failure coupled with a sketchy plane I think) and was at risk of hitting a full scale parked nearby. I kept a clear head and when I realized that my plane was unflyable, I managed to drive it into the ground before anybody got hurt or anything got damaged.
So I guess a more direct answer to your question may be in order.
Now remember that the following are just opinions.

Beginner:
Ranging from a person who hasn't ever flown before all the way to learning basic aerobatics and learning how to read the plane. A higher level beginner will start being able to fly by feel and should be able to tell things like when the plane is about to stall. They would also have most of their flying down to just muscle memory. I added in the basic aerobatics part because that just shows enough confidence in their abilities to attempt things other than flying in a straight line.

Intermediate:
This is also a range, and it starts at the "good beginner" level. The end is much higher, and by the time someone has reached this they have gained much more confidence and control of the aircraft. They can make good decisions in most cases that will not only maximize the chances of keeping the plane in the air, but they will also maximize bystander safety and reduce chances of property damage. This pilot can keep a clear head while flying and won't panic often. They may have learned some more aerobatics other than the basics, as by this point basic aerobatics will be just that: basic.

Expert:
A high level expert should be able to do all of the things that the intermediate can, but just better, more precise, and more consistent. This pilot will also be able to do more things with their aircraft than the intermediate and will generally have more confidence and control while doing these things.

I guess that's my system. I don't always follow it and it fails to consider quite a lot of stuff, but I think that it is ok for just being basic guidelines.

I think this is one of the keys, and one of the things that has saved me. Also, I think "processing time" is important. Knowing how to save something is one thing, getting the reactions to the plane in a timely fashion is another. Situational awareness and keeping calm are absolute key, and not something that can be taught.

I once got a plane (my P-40) way out of the flying area and I was having a hard time controlling it because unbeknownst to me the battery had come loose, and it was sliding around with the CG constantly changing. I was just in a reactionary fight with it overcorrecting. But as it continued to fly away, I realized it wasn't going down, and I was able to ascertain the direction of travel and realized if I was slow and gentle I could bring it around, and I did. That made the difference between having to put it down in a questionable area or possibly hitting a house to a safe landing, and a lesson learned not to trust just the sticky on years old velcro.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I thought I'd share my take on this, as I have thought about it a bit before.
My answer (like my answer to a lot of things) is that it depends. Specifically, it depends on what you think is a desirable trait in a pilot. For some, it is just aerobatics (loops, rolls, hovering etc.), but for others it is being smooth or being able to escape difficult situations effectively. In my opinion, being a good pilot is at least a bit of all of these things. I used to think that being able to do a bunch of aerobatics and crazy stuff would make me a great pilot, but then I tried flying formation and had to practice being as smooth, controlled, and precise as I had ever done before. After a bit of this I saw great improvements in just my normal flying and my aerobatics, and realized that being able to do a rolling harrier isn't everything.
To me, a high level expert pilot should be able to control their airplane effectively and precisely when doing all kinds of things; aerobatics, formation flying, just cruising around, flying in high turbulence etc.
I believe that I am at a high intermediate level, as I can have a lot of control over an airplane when doing almost everything except some 3d and extreme aerobatics. I can get my plane out of all kinds of bad situations and even in a worst case scenario I can stop myself from panicking and I can make the right decision. For example, one time I lost control of one of my RC planes (esc failure coupled with a sketchy plane I think) and was at risk of hitting a full scale parked nearby. I kept a clear head and when I realized that my plane was unflyable, I managed to drive it into the ground before anybody got hurt or anything got damaged.
So I guess a more direct answer to your question may be in order.
Now remember that the following are just opinions.

Beginner:
Ranging from a person who hasn't ever flown before all the way to learning basic aerobatics and learning how to read the plane. A higher level beginner will start being able to fly by feel and should be able to tell things like when the plane is about to stall. They would also have most of their flying down to just muscle memory. I added in the basic aerobatics part because that just shows enough confidence in their abilities to attempt things other than flying in a straight line.

Intermediate:
This is also a range, and it starts at the "good beginner" level. The end is much higher, and by the time someone has reached this they have gained much more confidence and control of the aircraft. They can make good decisions in most cases that will not only maximize the chances of keeping the plane in the air, but they will also maximize bystander safety and reduce chances of property damage. This pilot can keep a clear head while flying and won't panic often. They may have learned some more aerobatics other than the basics, as by this point basic aerobatics will be just that: basic.

Expert:
A high level expert should be able to do all of the things that the intermediate can, but just better, more precise, and more consistent. This pilot will also be able to do more things with their aircraft than the intermediate and will generally have more confidence and control while doing these things.

I guess that's my system. I don't always follow it and it fails to consider quite a lot of stuff, but I think that it is ok for just being basic guidelines.

Now that is impressive piloting skills, an ESC failure and a plane that was unflyable yet you still manage to avoid a serious accident . Ah got it now. I can only assume the BEC was still operational, so you at least had some directional control over the model and only lost control over the motor ?

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

It's probably one of the last thoughts to cross someone's mind in a situation like that. But if you have a model that isn't responding correctly and is difficult to handle. As long as its safe to do so, just turn off your transmitter. It places the model into failsafe mode (assuming you set it up beforehand) and hopefully it lands safely away from people, animals and property.

A few years back now, I ended up with a fake Spektrum receiver in my Mk1 F22, I didn't realise it was fake at the time though.
The first flight went really well, although I was flying it pretty close in at the time. I started getting more adventurous on the second flight and increased my flight area, suddenly for no apparent reason I lost signal and control of the plane, it was the first time it had happened to me. I watched as my model glided off into the distance luckily landing is an adjacent farmers field unharmed. As I sprinted across the field after the plane, trying to keep it in view so I could work out where abouts it would land. I could hear my son and mate Bill laughing in the background and thought I heard them shouting run Forest run.
Since then I have always made it a point to ensure every model I fly has its failsafe set and I put a small amount of rudder in too, so I never have to run that far again to retrieve a model in the future.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I think this is one of the keys, and one of the things that has saved me. Also, I think "processing time" is important. Knowing how to save something is one thing, getting the reactions to the plane in a timely fashion is another. Situational awareness and keeping calm are absolute key, and not something that can be taught.

I once got a plane (my P-40) way out of the flying area and I was having a hard time controlling it because unbeknownst to me the battery had come loose, and it was sliding around with the CG constantly changing. I was just in a reactionary fight with it overcorrecting. But as it continued to fly away, I realized it wasn't going down, and I was able to ascertain the direction of travel and realized if I was slow and gentle I could bring it around, and I did. That made the difference between having to put it down in a questionable area or possibly hitting a house to a safe landing, and a lesson learned not to trust just the sticky on years old velcro.

I also fell prey to the depreciation of Velcro, in my case it was my Spitfire, following a decent hand launch it soared off into the blue yonder steeply but under control. I made a right turn and as it banked the battery fell out of the front of the model and became detached. The result was a tail heavy Spitfire heading to the ground. I since repaired it and fitted a battery strap , I fit them to most of my models these days don't trust Velcro alone anymore on heavier batteries.

 

[FlamingRCAirplanes]

I am guessing it's all down to perception. If you take a professional body like the BMFA (British Model Flying Association) your skill level depends on what level of accreditation you have passed with them.
At most model flying clubs in the UK you must pass a safe solo test, consisting of basic safety knowledge and basic maneuvers before they allow you to fly on your own. They also expect you to eventually take and pass your BMFA accredited tests, within a 12 months of passing your safe solo test.
These tests are not necessarily a fair measure of a person's flying ability. There are plenty of people out there who can fly any model you you put in front of them, yet hold none of the above certificates or taken any tests.
As for what constitutes a pilots skill level its subjective.
From my viewpoint:
A beginner is someone just starting out in the hobby, with rudimentary knowledge but not proficient enough that they should be flying solo. An intermediate is someone who has reached a level of proficiency that allows them in most instances to to fly solo safely (I say most instances because it depends on the plane they plan to fly).
An advanced intermediate is someone who is extremely proficiency and experienced and can fly most planes in various conditions.
Then you have advanced pilots etc
But there again it's just my opinion.

I was this weird thing called novice that did not have the skill to fly solo but did it anyway

 

[Bricks]

I think Ketchup is on the right track we have a few pilots in our club that have flown since the day`s of Moses. Can they hover or do much of anything 3D nope but give them any plane and it will fly like it`s on rails, everything so smooth and effortless and put the plane exactly where they want it. In my eyes they are an expert in the way they fly, where some may consider them intermediate.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I am happy to be referred to as an intermediate, who wants to be a drip under pressure (Ex Spurt).