Reverse Engineering A Community's High Wing Trainer Contest

[Byrdman]

All the drama about no more free plans discussions going on got me thinking. If you really are scratch-builders, it really should not be that difficult to get pretty darn close to a Tutor, or any other high wing trainer style plane. We should have a contest to see who can make their own version of the Tutor and do it the best.

Rules:
1. Cannot purchase the Tutor SBK to enter - Shouldn't even be a problem. The ones complaining the most are either too cheap to support FT or live overseas.
2. 30 days to build & fly, 11/1/21-11/30/2021 - since plans are supposed to be released in December.
3. Has to upload a build of it flying and HD Pics for the judging
4. All judging will be a poll with any and all FT Forum Members welcome to vote once whether they compete in the contest or not.
4. Winner has to either provide plans for the community or at least dimensions of everything and build directions if you cant draw plans for their winning design.

Optional ideas:
1. Rules open for discussion
2. All contestants pay a $5 entry fee - Only need 20 or so contestants to cover prizes
3. All proceeds go to 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place prizes with anything left over donated to FTCA
A. 1st Place gets a Tutor SBK w/ Turbo Wing
B. 2nd Place gets FTCA Air Crew Membership
C. 3rd Place gets FTCA Ground Crew Membership

Time to put up or shut up about all the "No More Free Plans" DRAMA and lets get back to building and flying FUN!!

 

[mikeehuber]

Could I make a "Foamy Tutor"?

 

[JasonK]

How about instead of REing flite test's work, come up with your own high wing trainer design?

then create a build video for it, publish planes, market it, etc.

 

[Byrdman]

How about instead of REing flite test's work, come up with your own high wing trainer design?

then create a build video for it, publish planes, market it, etc.

Because I thought it would address all the "No more free plans" and "FT is not the same anymore" BS posts and have a little fun with it...

I think you and I are on the same page here. I could care less about really copying someone else's designs, but I thought if the community pulled together, we could stop all drama and have a good time doing it.

I think you missed my point, but maybe not. If you did, I'm tired of all the people complaining that they are not getting something for free any more when only $12 or $24 would give them exactly what they want.

 

[JasonK]

yah, I think that gets you the same goal [free plans] without stepping on FT's stuff. I have my doubts of you getting many entries with the $5 entry fee however (at least based on the 'intended target')

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

Because I thought it would address all the "No more free plans" and "FT is not the same anymore" BS posts and have a little fun with it...

I think you and I are on the same page here. I could care less about really copying someone else's designs, but I thought if the community pulled together, we could stop all drama and have a good time doing it.

I think you missed my point, but maybe not. If you did, I'm tired of all the people complaining that they are not getting something for free any more when only $12 or $24 would give them exactly what they want.

I promised myself I wouldn't do this anymore, but I think you need to be aware of some facts. So I have posted this as an example of buying a Flite Test SBK in the UK, versus an ARTF model:
Flite Test Simple Cub Speed-build Kit with MakerFoam (956mm)
BRAND: FLITE TEST
PART NUMBER: FLT1072
£39.89
$55.02
FLITE TEST Power Pack B - Radials/FLT-3059
£94.07
$129.76

TOTAL COST
£133.96
$184.78

HOBBY KING - TUNDRA (ARTF) (Just add transmitter, receiver and a lipo)
£137.69
$189.93

The point I am trying to make here Sir, is that I can buy an ARTF model with Motor, ESC and servos etc for little more than I can buy a Simple Cub SBK here in the UK, that price does include the power pack B and accessories. So you can probably now understand why people in other countries like the UK loved the free-plan downloads.
Please in future be a bit more respectful of other people on the forum who scratch build from those free plans. Young people in the UK for example don't have funds to buy speed build kits at those prices, scratch building is their only option into the hobby.
I think even the Flite test staff understood that and its why they initially gave away the plans for free, to help get more people into the hobby.
I can understand why they stopped giving away free plans and I don't blame them in the least. Pity they hadn't patented there designs, they could have made a fortune from law suits against the criminals who stole and continue to sell their designs.
I have nothing else to say on the matter.

 

[PsyBorg]

All the drama about no more free plans discussions going on got me thinking. If you really are scratch-builders, it really should not be that difficult to get pretty darn close to a Tutor, or any other high wing trainer style plane. We should have a contest to see who can make their own version of the Tutor and do it the best.

Rules:
1. Cannot purchase the Tutor SBK to enter - Shouldn't even be a problem. The ones complaining the most are either too cheap to support FT or live overseas.
2. 30 days to build & fly, 11/1/21-11/30/2021 - since plans are supposed to be released in December.
3. Has to upload a build of it flying and HD Pics for the judging
4. All judging will be a poll with any and all FT Forum Members welcome to vote once whether they compete in the contest or not.
4. Winner has to either provide plans for the community or at least dimensions of everything and build directions if you cant draw plans for their winning design.

Optional ideas:
1. Rules open for discussion
2. All contestants pay a $5 entry fee - Only need 20 or so contestants to cover prizes
3. All proceeds go to 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place prizes with anything left over donated to FTCA
A. 1st Place gets a Tutor SBK w/ Turbo Wing
B. 2nd Place gets FTCA Air Crew Membership
C. 3rd Place gets FTCA Ground Crew Membership

Time to put up or shut up about all the "No More Free Plans" DRAMA and lets get back to building and flying FUN!!

I am all for this idea except rule 4 (2.0) Posting the plans to the general public is just as bad as Banggood reverse engineering and selling them. This looks to me like you are intentionally stirring the pot over plans OR you are trying to buddy #$!% FT out of being able to produce a product and get some return on that investment.

Regardless of intention this is really bad form to do something like that.

 

[bisco]

how hard would it be to change the simple cub into a tutor? they seem very similar

 

[JasonK]

Pity they hadn't patented there designs, they could have made a fortune from law suits against the criminals who stole and continue to sell their designs.
I have nothing else to say on the matter.

1 - can't get money from someone who doesn't have it
2 - international lawsuits are a pain at best and very well impossible depending on where the violator is
3 - lawsuits get expensive and see #1
4 - lawsuits can cause really bad PR even in very valid situations because of 'spin' by the target

so, while we would all love to be able to see FT solve the problem using the legal system, but for various reasons, it probably isn't very viable. I remember (but don't recall where, so take this with a very big grain of salt) hearing that unless a product is worth >$1million USD, it is unlikely worth all the work to patent and defined the product, because you would end up lossing so much of your money defending the patent. Now I would love to believe that FT is being that profitable as it means that they would be able to do even more for the hobby, but I really doubt their plans make them anything even close to that (not talking about all planes, but individual ones).

 

[bisco]

I promised myself I wouldn't do this anymore, but I think you need to be aware of some facts. So I have posted this as an example of buying a Flite Test SBK in the UK, versus an ARTF model:
Flite Test Simple Cub Speed-build Kit with MakerFoam (956mm)
BRAND: FLITE TEST
PART NUMBER: FLT1072
£39.89
$55.02
FLITE TEST Power Pack B - Radials/FLT-3059
£94.07
$129.76

TOTAL COST
£133.96
$184.78

HOBBY KING - TUNDRA (ARTF) (Just add transmitter, receiver and a lipo)
£137.69
$189.93

The point I am trying to make here Sir, is that I can buy an ARTF model with Motor, ESC and servos etc for little more than I can buy a Simple Cub SBK here in the UK, that price does include the power pack B and accessories. So you can probably now understand why people in other countries like the UK loved the free-plan downloads.
Please in future be a bit more respectful of other people on the forum who scratch build from those free plans. Young people in the UK for example don't have funds to buy speed build kits at those prices, scratch building is their only option into the hobby.
I think even the Flite test staff understood that and its why they initially gave away the plans for free, to help get more people into the hobby.
I can understand why they stopped giving away free plans and I don't blame them in the least. Pity they hadn't patented there designs, they could have made a fortune from law suits against the criminals who stole and continue to sell their designs.
I have nothing else to say on the matter.

i have scratch built two ft models, and purchased some accessories from them. but i haven't purchased a power pack.
while they are convenient for a beginner, it is easier and cheaper to buy servo's, esc's, motors, props, receivers and etc. elsewhere.
but i do support them with purchases on a regular basis, because i believe in their mission, and i appreciate the value of past plans and videos, from which i have learned a lot.
i also transfer all the electrics from one model to another, except the servos, to keep costs down.
i also have some arf's that cost between $100. and $150., but the parts are not transferable, so every purchase stands on it's own.
i consider it the best of both worlds.
i would buy some speed build kits, but they are too big for my soccer field, so i scale down the plans.
as more plans come out, i'm happy to join to get them, or pay separately, if there is a build video. otherwise, there are free plans all over the net.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

i have scratch built two ft models, and purchased some accessories from them. but i haven't purchased a power pack.
while they are convenient foor a beginner, it is easier and cheaper to buy servo's, esc's, motors, props, receivers and etc. elsewhere.
but i do support them with purchases on a regular basis, because i believe in their mission, and i appreciate the value of past plans and videos, from which i have learned a lot.
i also transfer all the electrics from one model to another, except the servos, to keep costs down.
i also have some arf's that cost between $100. and $150., but the parts are not transferable, so every purchase stands on it's own.
i consider it the best of both worlds.
i would buy some speed build kits, but they are too big for my soccer field, so i scale down the plans.
as more plans come out, i'm happy to join to get them, or pay separately, if there is a build video. otherwise, there are free plans all over the net.

Hey buddy I completely understand, not everyone has a large disposable income to spend on the hobby. My son works as an apprentice HGV mechanic and up until August when he turned 19, he was only earning £4.50 an hour (that's $6.21 an hour in USD). Out of that he had all his living expenses to manage. It increased to £6.50 an hour when he turned 19, so he's now a bit more affluent. But he had to give up the hobby because he just couldn't afford it. I paid his club fees for this year, but he has only managed to get there once due to work and college.
Youngsters in this country have no chance of enjoying the hobby unless their parents are well off. Its an old man's hobby here because they they are the only ones with disposable income.

 

[FlyerInStyle]

I am all for this idea except rule 4 (2.0) Posting the plans to the general public is just as bad as Banggood reverse engineering and selling them. This looks to me like you are intentionally stirring the pot over plans OR you are trying to buddy #$!% FT out of being able to produce a product and get some return on that investment.

Regardless of intention this is really bad form to do something like that.

Just build the FT legacy. basically same design, just slightly bigger. I have one on a single engine c pack and it is an AMAZING trainer

and it has free plans

 

[bisco]

Hey buddy I completely understand, not everyone has a large disposable income to spend on the hobby. My son works as an apprentice HGV mechanic and up until August when he turned 19, he was only earning £4.50 an hour (that's $6.21 an hour in USD). Out of that he had all his living expenses to manage. It increased to £6.50 an hour when he turned 19, so he's now a bit more affluent. But he had to give up the hobby because he just couldn't afford it. I paid his club fees for this year, but he has only managed to get there once due to work and college.
Youngsters in this country have no chance of enjoying the hobby unless their parents are well off. Its an old man's hobby here because they they are the only ones with disposable income.

wow, that is really low. i hope there will be a huge increase when he is no longer an apprentice!

it's not a hobby for everybody, so true. and that is true of many things in life. you could probably get started for around $150., but one thing leads to another...

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

wow, that is really low. i hope there will be a huge increase when he is no longer an apprentice!

it's not a hobby for everybody, so true. and that is true of many things in life. you could probably get started for around $150., but one thing leads to another...

When he is fully qualified at 21 depending where he ends up, he can be earning between £30k to £40k per year. So it will be worth it in the end, but until then its a hard slog. He has used up all his savings on tools and his car, your looking at a good £20k for a full mechanics tool set and tool cabinet, I've been helping out where I can buying some tools for him.
His car only cost him £500, it was going to be scrapped as it needed lots of work. But he been rebuilding it and replacing parts as he goes along and now its looking good. Unfortunately due to his age the insurance alone was nearly £3,500 a year and that's for a 2010 Renault Megane 1.5 diesel, we helped him out with the money for that too. Its got good fuel economy though, so that helps.
As for the hobby he still has an old Bixler 3, a Tiny trainer and the FT Delta that he built and a DX6i transmitter, so he could get back into the hobby in the future. But as they have him working most Saturdays, after 6 days he just wants to chill out on Sunday (which is basically the only day he could go to fly at the club).
We could go and fly in the farmers field at the bottom of my garden, but as he isn't registered with the CAA anymore that would in theory be illegal. Shame we use to love going flying together, hopefully he will get back into the hobby one day or at least inherit my models.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I am going picking up my latest acquisition tomorrow
Corsair - I've been after a nitro version for ages.
I already have the Enya 30ss which is going in it, buying it off a friend at the club for £50. Its a nice balsa model the only down side is no landing gear as its a belly lander .

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

Was going to buy the Bearcat too, its an electric. Unfortunately I am strapped for cash at the moment and Christmas is looming, so that will have to wait until New Year now.

 

[bisco]

When he is fully qualified at 21 depending where he ends up, he can be earning between £30k to £40k per year. So it will be worth it in the end, but until then its a hard slog. He has used up all his savings on tools and his car, your looking at a good £20k for a full mechanics tool set and tool cabinet, I've been helping out where I can buying some tools for him.
His car only cost him £500, it was going to be scrapped as it needed lots of work. But he been rebuilding it and replacing parts as he goes along and now its looking good. Unfortunately due to his age the insurance alone was nearly £3,500 a year and that's for a 2010 Renault Megane 1.5 diesel, we helped him out with the money for that too. Its got good fuel economy though, so that helps.
As for the hobby he still has an old Bixler 3, a Tiny trainer and the FT Delta that he built and a DX6i transmitter, so he could get back into the hobby in the future. But as they have him working most Saturdays, after 6 days he just wants to chill out on Sunday (which is basically the only day he could go to fly at the club).
We could go and fly in the farmers field at the bottom of my garden, but as he isn't registered with the CAA anymore that would in theory be illegal. Shame we use to love going flying together, hopefully he will get back into the hobby one day or at least inherit my models.

do you have the 250g rule there?

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

do you have the 250g rule there?

Yep anything sub 250g is a toy therefore exempt and control line aircraft.

 

[bisco]

excellent. i fly my sport cub s and umx turbo timber at the local parks whenever they are free.

 

[PsyBorg]

Just build the FT legacy. basically same design, just slightly bigger. I have one on a single engine c pack and it is an AMAZING trainer

and it has free plans

Did you actually read what I posted? Building an FT legacy has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I said...