Scaled-down Tiny Trainer?

[kevinjaako]

Hi everyone! I've seen a handful of scaled-up tiny trainers... but has anyone ever scaled one down?

I've been flying the EZ series with my kids in my local park and we're getting ready for the next step. I definitely want to stick to scratch building, since I love the time we're spending together.

Our local park isn't terribly big, so I'm looking for something small and quiet– something that looks like a "toy" to an onlooker.

What kind of servo/motor/prop size would I be looking for, if I decided to scale down the Tiny Trainer to say, 75%? Any issues I should be consdering, going this route– other than less stability/wind performance?

Thanks in advance!
KJ

 

[SSgt Duramax]

A mini scout could fit your bill. What wing span are you looking for? Smaller equals a little twitchy and harder to fly, not by much.

For 75% you could stick with the 1806 motor with a 5x3 prop. I had a 20 inch wingspan high wing trainer (the creator of the plans has since removed them, so I couldn't suggest it) that flew on a 1407 2800kv motor and a 5x4 prop on a 300mah 2s. I would use 5g servos. You could use FT commuter plans in place of it.

I have since moved the electronics to one of these and it flies great, but it is pretty slippery and speedy, but a tough little plane and easy enough to fly. I suppose it would be pretty good if you made it a 3ch with rudder instead of ailerons like I did.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255301655025?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&var=555282918037

If you wanted to go down to 55% you could use that power set up I used, and have a nice 20" wingspan. I don't know about room for batteries though, you might want to keep the fuselage width.

There is also this.. https://www.nerdnic.com/manic-micro-nntiger-moth.html

 

[Ligbaer]

the creator of the plans has since removed them, so I couldn't suggest it

im sure Matthew would be happy to pm the plans though

 

[Ligbaer]

im sure Matthew would be happy to pm the plans though

ssgt's kadet

 

[Taildragger]

A mini scout could fit your bill. What wing span are you looking for? Smaller equals a little twitchy and harder to fly, not by much.

For 75% you could stick with the 1806 motor with a 5x3 prop. I had a 20 inch wingspan high wing trainer (the creator of the plans has since removed them, so I couldn't suggest it) that flew on a 1407 2800kv motor and a 5x4 prop on a 300mah 2s. I would use 5g servos. You could use FT commuter plans in place of it.

I have since moved the electronics to one of these and it flies great, but it is pretty slippery and speedy, but a tough little plane and easy enough to fly. I suppose it would be pretty good if you made it a 3ch with rudder instead of ailerons like I did.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255301655025?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&var=555282918037

If you wanted to go down to 55% you could use that power set up I used, and have a nice 20" wingspan. I don't know about room for batteries though, you might want to keep the fuselage width.

There is also this.. https://www.nerdnic.com/manic-micro-nntiger-moth.html

why did he remove the plans anyway?

 

[Ligbaer]

why did he remove the plans anyway?

copyright or smth
look at pg 27 and beyond on the kadet thread

 

[Monte.C]

A mini scout could fit your bill. What wing span are you looking for? Smaller equals a little twitchy and harder to fly, not by much.

For 75% you could stick with the 1806 motor with a 5x3 prop. I had a 20 inch wingspan high wing trainer (the creator of the plans has since removed them, so I couldn't suggest it) that flew on a 1407 2800kv motor and a 5x4 prop on a 300mah 2s. I would use 5g servos. You could use FT commuter plans in place of it.

I have since moved the electronics to one of these and it flies great, but it is pretty slippery and speedy, but a tough little plane and easy enough to fly. I suppose it would be pretty good if you made it a 3ch with rudder instead of ailerons like I did.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255301655025?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&var=555282918037

If you wanted to go down to 55% you could use that power set up I used, and have a nice 20" wingspan. I don't know about room for batteries though, you might want to keep the fuselage width.

There is also this.. https://www.nerdnic.com/manic-micro-nntiger-moth.html

That NN Tiger Moth looks like a lot of fun in a small space.

 

[kevinjaako]

Cheers– I think an 18" - 24" wingspan is about what I had in mind...
That Kadet Jr. looks great! 5g servos & a 1407'ish motor then? That gives me a starting point.

It's pretty similar in vibe to the Tiny Trainer too, which I actually quite enjoy.

I found the Kadet build thread and am going through your trials & tribulations getting it dialled in. I can't see any control surfaces in the picture, I'm guessing it's a 3ch? I'm used to tight builds from building toothpick quads... they're tedious, but worth it

KJ

 

[SSgt Duramax]

copyright or smth
look at pg 27 and beyond on the kadet thread

Matthews plans are super exclusive, and everyone wants to steal them. Really, it isn't worth it, and if he wanted people to build his plane, he would post it. I post my stuff.

Honestly, he could just build a 75% commuter if he wanted to do a high wing plane like that. @Ratcheeroo had a very good take on the kadet too, and it flew great, and flew great for my daughter too, right into a mesquite thicket. I haven't managed to locate it through aerial surveillance yet. Probably need to wait for a calmer day.

That NN Tiger Moth looks like a lot of fun in a small space.

I bet it is. I bought the electronics to build that, then I built that mini kaddy instead, then I built the little epp glider plane with the electronics from that. In that course of time, I upgraded the motor, so I technically have all of the stuff required for that tiger moth, and I want to build it. But now I like designing my own stuff, and a pretty decent sized build que. I need to finish my "real" plane as ratcheroo would call it, then I need to build my plank, and then my skyray, and nightfury upgrades may be in there somewhere. I may throw my hat in the ring on the STOL contest with that.

 

[kevinjaako]

I'm feeling like I might still go down the scaled-down Tiny Trainer route, since it's a simpler build and I'd be ditching the Commuter's landing gear at that scale anyway. I've seen a few mods to the TT that ditched the power pod and I'd probably do something similar given the smaller fuselage– I've got a bunch of 200mAh 2S batteries lying around I can check early on for fit.

@SSgt Duramax, anything I should consider amending to control surfaces, etc. given the smaller size? You briefly mentioned elevator authority in the Kadet Jr. build thread...

 

[SSgt Duramax]

I'm feeling like I might still go down the scaled-down Tiny Trainer route, since it's a simpler build and I'd be ditching the Commuter's landing gear at that scale anyway. I've seen a few mods to the TT that ditched the power pod and I'd probably do something similar given the smaller fuselage– I've got a bunch of 200mAh 2S batteries lying around I can check early on for fit.

@SSgt Duramax, anything I should consider amending to control surfaces, etc. given the smaller size? You briefly mentioned elevator authority in the Kadet Jr. build thread...

I think the tiny trainer should be fine. There probably wasn't enough elevator authority on his full sized kadet. I was having to land at 25% throttle to make sure there was enough air flowing over the elevator or it would just lawndart.

The tiny trainer can do loops and things on low rates, so I am sure it will be fine smaller. IIRC it has a pretty sizeable elevator. You already have a motor, you could easily just scale it to whatever size is good for your motor.

My 300mah 2s batteries are as wide as my 3s 1000mah batteries. If yours are narrower, you should be fine. What equipment do you already have?

 

[kevinjaako]

I just went and checked.

I've got
- 450mAh 2S
- 450mAh 3S
-300mAh 3S (but these are old and tired)

These are all the long and thin type, so should be okay with a narrow canopy. Hopefully the fuse is long enough to keep the CG right.

I've got a few 1404's and 1106's from old quads that are probably too small. I don't think I want to scale back that small

 

[JasonK]

if your willing to do a bit of tweaking to mount the motor/battery/etc this is a good size for something smaller:

Wonder Glider/ EZ Glider -> effectively a scaled down Tiny Trainer, but needs a bit of modification to mount a motor to it.
<https://store.flitetest.com/ft-wonder-glider-5-pack/>
<https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?resources/ft-ez-glider.56/>

Those small motors would work well on something like this (some wood working or a 3D printer to build the motor mounts)
<https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?resources/ft-twin-sparrow.9/>

If you wanted to try a wing, the FT Dart would work good with those small motors also:
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TKSB-FwiNu94QWkH5gd8pXbxjQ7g5mBT/view?usp=sharing>

FT LongEZ, this is an intresting build, but wouldn't suggest it until you have a bit of flying experiance, it is a bit more challenging to fly.
<https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?resources/ft-longez.37/>

 

[SSgt Duramax]

I just went and checked.

I've got
- 450mAh 2S
- 450mAh 3S
-300mAh 3S (but these are old and tired)

These are all the long and thin type, so should be okay with a narrow canopy. Hopefully the fuse is long enough to keep the CG right.

I've got a few 1404's and 1106's from old quads that are probably too small. I don't think I want to scale back that small

You might be able to fly it on the 1404. Maybe if you scaled down to 60 or 65% the battery size and motors would balance out well. I know I can spin a 5x4 on a 2S on a 1407 2800kv no problem. I just don't have any 3S that small to try it 3S. On the brightside, by using what you already have, you can just build a small one, and if you don't like it you can buy the stuff to build a bigger one, and the most you are out is a dollar or two on foam.

When you build the plane what I have found helps me when scaling things down is if it is just a one thick foam board spar (I believe the TT is, it has been a while since I built one) is if you depaper the spar, on one side at least, it will let the wing form more easily. Just slide a big popsicle stick or dowel in the middle to strengthen it.

The only wing I have ever snapped was a tiny trainer wing, so it could go for a tiny bit of strengthening. I repaired it with tape and a popsicle stick though, and it still flew fine. Although if you have gorilla glue handy and a couple pieces of duct tape the wing wont need any strengthening.

Walmart has a ton of 1/8 thick bamboo skewers for $.98 in the camping section used for roasting marshmallows on a campfire that work perfect for strengthening smaller wings. I think you get like 12 in a pack or something like that. Pretty cheap pricepoint for what you get.