Success with minor issues!

[Craftydan]

CD,

no worries! e_lm_70 is porting 2.3 down to the kk2 as we speak!

http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?6634-KK2-1-vs-MultiWii/page2

Re-route a few wires, flash it down and you can give it a try . . . eventually. The port showes great promise, but it's still kinda young.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

Cool!

 

[FiberToast]

I have a KK2.1 on my other tri but I don´t like giving up before i solve the problem and i actually like MW with bluetooth and the small form factor and less cables. The KK is flying good but this MW is a nut i want to crack.
Plan is to get a BO mini hex and it would be nice to be able to run MW on that. Or i have to learn Naze32 or CC3D as well.

In some of the videos you see of people flying those mad machines they look so completly locked in, i understand that a lot of it is pilot skill but i think a well tuned FCB is a big part of it as well.

 

[Mustang7302]

The Naze32 is a million times easier to learn than MW, and every bit as configurable. Not to mention it just flat out uses better, more modern, hardware.

 

[Craftydan]

Have yet to play with a Naze32, but it looks like the learning curves are very similar to the multiwii. It's the next board I plan on picking up . . . If I don't pick up a new kk2.1 between now and then . . .

From my experience, Multiwii is far more solid to dial in, but you pick up soooo many more options to configure it's a little daunting finding the right balance for some controls. I've yet to get my self-level modes to dial in anywhere close to trustable and the RTH navigation is VERY sloppy, but the acro gains I've tuned are rock solid and WAY more nimble than the kk2 -- it was easy for me to ditch the self level all together because it locks to an attitude so very well.

I agree -- a fast pilot can make up for a lot of slop in the control loops, but de-vibing the craft and a fast, smart control system can make a fair pilot into an amazing pilot.

 

[e_lm_70]

Hi Dan,

Are you using "stock" MutliWii 2.3 or some updated version ?

I know somebody did port from Baseflight (the Naze32 firmware) some part of the stability code into MultiWii 2.3, and it appear it has a much more stable acro mode, compared to original MW2.3 ... it has been reported that this "code hack" on MW2.3 it is possible or suggested only for people using the 6050 chip .. while MW23 may have a more generic code that can be work also with different type of sensors ...

I still have to try, and I'm not really into acro .. but ... sometime have a more precise copter is an advantage for aerial video too.

About MW vs KK2 ... I'm happy with both of them ... about KK2 .. for me the real KK2 it is the one done by Mr. KK (Rolf) ... so it is only the KK2.0 .. KK2.1 is more a hack ... but having a 64k memory ... it is a very usable hack (I just bought it when it was 15$ each with a discount code, at 30$ each is overpriced for my taste)
Still it is a sort of shame HobbyKing did not add on KK2.1 the 5883 and BMP180 that cost 4$ (2+2$) from eBay shipped, so they must cost almost nothing if bought in quantity ...

 

[e_lm_70]

About GPS and MultiWii ... for me it is working good enough.

It is not the same level of PH like DJI Naze or APM ... but .. +/- 2 meter for me is not an issue.

RTH did always work fine ... with the copter back home with +/. 2 meter ... totally fine for me.

The type of GPS module used, and its accuracy here does play a huge role ... more then the ticks used in the firmware

Here is my MW2.2 Action Mode ... climbing up X meter automatically, then make a nice 360deg panorama view .. and then it descend back ... all automatically done over MW2.2

http://youtu.be/Qy0kTAEHCQk

Yes, my GPS hold is a bit shaking the copter, and without a brushless gimbal the video is not perfect ... but .. in theory I have my own DIY brashless gimbal too ... but still not used on this copter.

 

[FiberToast]

Hi Dan.

Do you run MW on a tricopter and would you mind sharing your PID´s. Just an experiment for seeing what kind of result other people get as i don't have anything to reference my experience. My tri is in my opinion quite smooth flying in angle mode. It does drift in a hover but without magnetometer active and no gps i suppose thats acceptable. I can get it to hover on spot if its dead calm outside.

I should upload another video now when i had fixed the split arms and reinforced the camera tray but the weather is not very good (pouring rain). The camera tray reinforcement consisting of a small strip of carbon really stopped the flutter in hi speed as seen in the video in post one.

The Armattan tail assembly that I'm using would probably survive a crash from the upper atmosfer as its made from CNC cut 6mm aircraft aluminum. Hovever I'm thinking of changing back to Davids design with the nose wheel columns because i have a little play in the axle and i think thats what is cousing that rattling noise in the video.

Funny thing in the last podcast they talked briefly about being alone when starting in this hobby as opposed to having someone guide you. With internet and this forum you never need to be alone they said, thats what i discovered with this my first thread ever on a forum. When i normally start talking to someone i know about FCB´s and FPV or just RC in general their eyes glaze over and they look like they want to pat me on the head and hope i will grow up. Well I'm 33 years and i think this is in all ways a grown up hobby as it´s extremely technical and challenging in so many ways. To bad that were i live it also seems to be a pretty lonely hobby. Im glad my lovely wife put´s up with me and my tinkering and spending the vacation mony on that new camera or motor that i absolutely "must have".

 

[Craftydan]

e_lm,

actually I'm running MW2.2. Kinda embarrassed by that . . . I've been paid to tackle bigger nastier environments and I can't get 2.3 to build. Moved on in disgust -- who want's day-job frustrations in hobby time?!? I'll probably go back and revisit it soon . . .

My go-to airframe is a V-tail and more nimble than stable. It could still carry a small-medium payload, so FPV isn't out of the realm of possibility, but not it's focus. As it is, it's got a wicked roll/pitch rate and a respectable FFF speed. It also has 4 crap motors who's bearings are going south -- working on replacing those. I expect that will help the accelerometers enough that I'm waiting for them to dial it in.

Fiber Toast,

V-tail, not a tri, and change the motors, spacing, layout and ESC response and the ideal numbers change . . . but:

R/P: P - 5.0 I - 0.045 D - 23 R - 0.6
Y: P - 6.0 I - 0.055 D - 25 R - 0.6

The other gains I know are sloppy, so no point in sharing them.

for the controls:
Throttle Mid: 0.5
Throttle Expo: 0
RC Rate: 1.75
RC Expo: 0.5
Throttle PID Attenuation: 0

Those make for a snappy, twitchy V-tail . . . I like it

 

[e_lm_70]

Oj Oj Oj ... what I read here

V tail vs Tricopters :black_eyed:
People that spend the vacation money in Armattan products :black_eyed:

Mr. FiberToast ... take my suggestion .. your wife is more important then the hobby ... if she love vacations, go in vacation (but take with your your tricopter for make aerial video ) ... I'm also living in a cold country ... so ... you need to go somewhere nice and hot both in summer and winter with your own "family"

About MW2.2 vs 2.3 ... I did the upgrade only on one of my copter that was not perfect (and still it is not ). My big tricopter is still happy doing MW2.2, I think I will not change it ... it is already a 2.2 with hacks from 2.3 anyhow , plus my own hacks.

Anyhow ... I did notice that moving from 2.2 to 2.3 , the LPF from the Gyro at hardware level it become a must ... I'm using 190Hz on my MW2.2 tricopter, and I was having same on my Micro Y4 when it was on MW2.2 ... but I'm down to 42Hz on my MW2.3 for KK2.x and on the Micro Y4 I think I'm at 98Hz that is possible the reason why it is not as perfect as I would wish

With MW2.3 after the LPF change, that it is looking that old PID start to work again.
Some people report to be even more happy with 20Hz LPF .. that is what APM use by default.
I see other speaking of 42Hz ... anyhow ... the consensus is for high LPF

PS: I found PID setting is very specific to ESC used ... also type of motor + prop and weight ... has some role on it .. but mainly it is the ESC. Normally stock PID works most of the time, if the ESC are the SimonK one. I think fly without SimonK ESC (or the few other advanced firmware, but 99% is SimonK) it is a bad gamble ... it is so much more rewording when everything works fine out of the box without PID tuning ... (PID tuning is a pain ... they should make AutoTuning on MultiWii, I'm sure it is a dummy task to be done ... so far only APM have autotuning of PID, still APM is so sensible that the copter on a poor PID it may crash even before been able to activate autotuning)

 

[FiberToast]

Dan!
Thank u anyway it was just a thought, i know it is very individual with PID´s between different multi´s.

e_lm_70!
I hear you about taking care of the wife, if she aint happy nobodies happy. She's the one taking care of the economy in our company anyhow, and the one who got me in to this obsession by bying a micro heli for our son a few years ago.
Sadly our son have no interest in rc what so ever.

I did start out on 2.3 using the LPF on i think 20 and 42Hz but for some reason thought that it would make the board more sensitive running on full capacity. The only problem i had without the filters was that the tail would be jittering and shaking while on the ground. Then i put the Moving average gyros on at 15 and that helps take away the jitter. Some say it couses more problems than it fixes but i really feel no difference. Maybe a little tail drift.
Since I'm running without LPF and can see no trace of vibrations in the GUI that lead me to think i had everything pretty well balanced, before Cranial pointed out the sound in the video wich i think is the tail assembly.

V-tails are nice i have been thinking about building something like StuntDoubles Infinity T3 on the dark side at http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1850032

The only negative i have found about the Tricopter is the mechanical tail witch is also what makes it so fantastic.

Any one tried the static tuning of PID´s or what its called, when you attach the multi to a boom or pice of string and tune it with the rotors running.

Problem i have with tuning is that every time i go out to do it i start out doing one LiPo and than think, Hell it´s flying so why am i not doing FPV and the goggles come on and thats the end of tuning.

 

[e_lm_70]

...

Sadly our son have no interest in rc what so ever.
...

So ... we have something in common then

Still I took recently the Air Hogs X4 ... and now that he is free to crash it as much as he like ... he start to be a bit more interested.

Get this Air Hogs here was not easy and not cheap ... in US it cost nothing, but here in EU is available only from Germany and not very cheap especially after german shipping costs.

Anyhow ... I recommend this toy to everybody that want to learn or mainly let kids learn and have fun on the same time ... 1000 times better then use "boring" simulators

 

[FiberToast]

I have been doing some testing at home since the weather is still bad here and i think i have found whats cousing the twitch in the tail servo.

If i power up my tricopter without powering the transmitter on there is no twitching in the servo.
Im flying with Dragonlink V2
If i have the transmitter on then i can see in the GUI that every time the servo twitches all of the transmitter sliders go nut´s for just a milli sec.
I read on open pilot forum about someone having issues with the FCB emitting RF noise on the 431-433MHz band and cousin interference with their Rx. So i tried separating the FCB and the Rx but that didn´t help next is to try and isolate the FCB or Rx with aluminum tape or copper tape.
Either this is couse by RF noise or there is a bug in the DL or the FCB.

Did some more balancing of the motors through running them separately and looking at the acc in the GUI but i can´t seem to reduce the vibes more by placing small pieces of tape on the bell and moving it around. I think the motors are pretty well balanced.
Next will be to try with the props on. Last time i did that i had to clean the whole apartment as i didn't think about all the ashes in our open fireplace blowing around and covering everything, until i was done and turned around and saw all the dust slowly sinking towards the floor in the living room. :applause:

 

[cranialrectosis]

Last time i did that i had to clean the whole apartment as i didn't think about all the ashes in our open fireplace blowing around and covering everything, until i was done and turned around and saw all the dust slowly sinking towards the floor in the living room. :applause:

Why oh why do we never run the camera when we do these tests?

 

[FiberToast]

So i guess i forgot about this thread.

Well for anyone reding this in search of problems with Dragonlink and Multiwii i want to say that i have solved my problem and it was not coused by the DL or MW. The problem lay in the DX6 transmitter ppm stream. I have upgraded to a Taranis and are running it with Dragonlink, zero problems.

I can highly recommend Dragonlink as Mike have given excellent customer service and even sent a complete new system just for testing before i found out what the problem is.

I have since had many good flights and built a couple more multirotors.

Now I'm off to build a scale Spitfire for FPV

Thanks to everyone for their help.