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The Second Part of my Journey - The Diary

kilroy07

Well-known member
#41
You know, I had something similar with my mustang...
The maiden it flew great... The second time it seemed to lunge for the ground...
Not sure what was going on with it, but I tossed it in the air anyway... She came down hard! :cry:
Sitting in the "fixit" pile now...

My opinion (worth about .02)

Tedge maiden, first video. I think she stalled, then torque rolled into the ground. Try maybe tossing her flatter next time.
Might have been a touch tail heavy exaggerating the stall... in all three videos I see her stall...then flat spin in.


Remember that the Edge "shouldn't" be self correcting... So...
I'll cut mine out tomorrow... I'm out of town next week so it'll be next weekend before I can give it a go myself...
(Maybe we should build a pair of Edges as well as Corsairs.) ;)
 

mayan

Well-known member
#42
You know, I had something similar with my mustang...
The maiden it flew great... The second time it seemed to lunge for the ground...
Not sure what was going on with it, but I tossed it in the air anyway... She came down hard! :cry:
Sitting in the "fixit" pile now...

My opinion (worth about .02)

Tedge maiden, first video. I think she stalled, then torque rolled into the ground. Try maybe tossing her flatter next time.
Might have been a touch tail heavy exaggerating the stall... in all three videos I see her stall...then flat spin in.


Remember that the Edge "shouldn't" be self correcting... So...
I'll cut mine out tomorrow... I'm out of town next week so it'll be next weekend before I can give it a go myself...
(Maybe we should build a pair of Edges as well as Corsairs.) ;)
The SpiTTT can still fly no damage was done to it but it's these moments that leave me puzzled for a good period of time. I might try it again the next time I go to the field. See if anything changes, maybe it just had a bad day :).

As for the Tedge I really have no clue what the issue with it is. I think that I could have used a a pack motor instead of the f pack motor and it would still have enough thrust to make it fly. I am maybe going to try that the next time I go to the field, although I really want to practice flying the Mini Edge V2 more than anything else at the moment.

(Maybe we should build a pair of Edges as well as Corsairs.) ;)
I am in if you also add the Mini Edge to the challenge so it will be the master series corsair, a full sized Edge 540 and the Mini Edge :). What say you?
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Mentor
#43
The SpiTTT can still fly no damage was done to it but it's these moments that leave me puzzled for a good period of time. I might try it again the next time I go to the field. See if anything changes, maybe it just had a bad day :).

As for the Tedge I really have no clue what the issue with it is. I think that I could have used a a pack motor instead of the f pack motor and it would still have enough thrust to make it fly. I am maybe going to try that the next time I go to the field, although I really want to practice flying the Mini Edge V2 more than anything else at the moment.


I am in if you also add the Mini Edge to the challenge so it will be the master series corsair, a full sized Edge 540 and the Mini Edge :). What say you?
On the Tedge I would check the motor thrust angle to ensure that the motor isn't pulling the nose of the plane skywards causing a stall and crash. Perhaps a fair bit of down thrust would be of assistance.

Additionally the wing incidence angle WRT the horizontal tail might be toooo high. Too much wing incidence angle on a plane of little weight can cause it to want to fly loops only!

Just a thought or two!

Have fun!
 

mayan

Well-known member
#44
On the Tedge I would check the motor thrust angle to ensure that the motor isn't pulling the nose of the plane skywards causing a stall and crash. Perhaps a fair bit of down thrust would be of assistance.

Additionally the wing incidence angle WRT the horizontal tail might be toooo high. Too much wing incidence angle on a plane of little weight can cause it to want to fly loops only!

Just a thought or two!

Have fun!
Your thoughts are solid gold! I will have to check both and see if it fixes the problem. How would you fix this?
Additionally the wing incidence angle WRT the horizontal tail might be toooo high. Too much wing incidence angle on a plane of little weight can cause it to want to fly loops only!
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Mentor
#45
Your thoughts are solid gold! I will have to check both and see if it fixes the problem. How would you fix this?
There are 2 possible fixes. One looks best in the air and the other is the easiest.

Easiest is to cut the H tail underside away from the fuselage and fit a shim or similar under the LE and then glue it all up again!

The best looking is to remove the wing and cut the wing saddle part of the fuselage so that the wing tilts a little further downwards , (measure in mm). Then refit the wing and if necessary fill the gap over the top of the wing with a few thin slivers of foam and glue!If you have a spirit level, (often called a level by builders), you could make a rough but reasonable accurate guage to check for incidence angle differences out of FB!

If you wish to know how I can give greater details.

have fun!
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Mentor
#47
Yes I would. If you can further explain this it would be great :).
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. See Pic!
Incidence comparison guage.jpg
You need to make a FB Profile gauge so that the bottom edge, (Front and rear), are the same as the wing underside and the top edge is parallel to the bottom line, (before cutting the profile out!

You set up either the wing. with gauge fitted, or the tail to be level as measured with the level. then measure the other and compare results.

If you do not wish to cut the gauge you can just use the bottom of the wing and the bottom of the tail for the comparison. The gauge is required for any other wing profile that is not flat bottomed.

Hope that helps a little!

Have fun!
 

mayan

Well-known member
#48
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. See Pic!
View attachment 128281
You need to make a FB Profile gauge so that the bottom edge, (Front and rear), are the same as the wing underside and the top edge is parallel to the bottom line, (before cutting the profile out!

You set up either the wing. with gauge fitted, or the tail to be level as measured with the level. then measure the other and compare results.

If you do not wish to cut the gauge you can just use the bottom of the wing and the bottom of the tail for the comparison. The gauge is required for any other wing profile that is not flat bottomed.

Hope that helps a little!

Have fun!
Thanks will try it out later.
 
#49
On the Tedge I would check the motor thrust angle to ensure that the motor isn't pulling the nose of the plane skywards causing a stall and crash. Perhaps a fair bit of down thrust would be of assistance.
This was my first guess as well. If it glides well unpowered and the throttle is what seems to make it nose-up so harshly, that would be the first thing I'd look at.

Additionally the wing incidence angle WRT the horizontal tail might be toooo high. Too much wing incidence angle on a plane of little weight can cause it to want to fly loops only!

Just a thought or two!

Have fun!
I wouldn't have thought of this. It makes perfect sense, I'm just too inexperienced to consider it right away like that. Definitely going into the vault.
 

mayan

Well-known member
#50
Quick update. There is a lot of models that I want to fix and build but today I took a break and decided to get back to the goal that led to me finding this wonderful hobby, bonding with my children. Building and flying is fun but it’s so much more fun with others so tomorrow my children and I will build their first RC plane a 2ch TT. Over the next few weeks the children are going to go through a Bootcamp for flying. The goal is to have them flying before the 15th of August this year which will be one year since I started in the hobby. I started a thread about it of you’d like to follow me step by step, Teaching My Children To Fly - The Diary.

Regardless I still want to find some time tomorrow to analyze my servo issues with the Mini Edge and Tedge. As well as change the thrust angle on the Tedge to see if it helps drop the constant loop it kept entering on its first maiden. I also plan on going to the field alone on Wednesday to get some quite practice time and make sure that I feel confident enough to teach the children to fly.

More soon...
 

mayan

Well-known member
#51
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. See Pic!
View attachment 128281
You need to make a FB Profile gauge so that the bottom edge, (Front and rear), are the same as the wing underside and the top edge is parallel to the bottom line, (before cutting the profile out!

You set up either the wing. with gauge fitted, or the tail to be level as measured with the level. then measure the other and compare results.

If you do not wish to cut the gauge you can just use the bottom of the wing and the bottom of the tail for the comparison. The gauge is required for any other wing profile that is not flat bottomed.

Hope that helps a little!

Have fun!
Planing for tomorrow so quick question. If I understood correctly the wing bottom and tail horizontal stabilizer need to be at the same level?
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Mentor
#52
Planing for tomorrow so quick question. If I understood correctly the wing bottom and tail horizontal stabilizer need to be at the same level?
It is not the level of the tail BUT the angle of them that is important. With the tail held level the wing is then measured to see if its angle is different or the same as the tail!

Nominally the answer is yes, (the same angle), but it does depend on the wing profile especially at the LE where the air splits to travel over and under the wing.

With standard builds like the TT and such the flat bottom wing and the tail should read the same. The gauge is crude but it does allow you to do comparative measurements and determine quickly if the Incidence is negative, positive, or neutral. Then you need to look at the speed range required, (slow speed may require a slight positive angle or high speed where the incidence should be little to equal. A negative incidence angle is a recipe for catastrophic crashes!

I use mine when I do a new design and check and record the angle before the maiden. IF the handling is poor especially in trimming pitch over a speed range then I might adjust the incidence angle and retest. When I have it flying as I intended I then record the measurement and use it for all future builds of the same type. Occasionally I adjust the plan and do a second build to the new plan and redo the measurement and adjustment procedure for the newer version.

PLEASE NOTE: When referring to wing Incidence I refer to the measurement of the wing angle as compared with the tail angle which is the zero reference!

Have fun!
 

Wildthing

Well-known member
#53
Quick update. There is a lot of models that I want to fix and build but today I took a break and decided to get back to the goal that led to me finding this wonderful hobby, bonding with my children. Building and flying is fun but it’s so much more fun with others so tomorrow my children and I will build their first RC plane a 2ch TT. Over the next few weeks the children are going to go through a Bootcamp for flying. The goal is to have them flying before the 15th of August this year which will be one year since I started in the hobby. I started a thread about it of you’d like to follow me step by step, Teaching My Children To Fly - The Diary.

Regardless I still want to find some time tomorrow to analyze my servo issues with the Mini Edge and Tedge. As well as change the thrust angle on the Tedge to see if it helps drop the constant loop it kept entering on its first maiden. I also plan on going to the field alone on Wednesday to get some quite practice time and make sure that I feel confident enough to teach the children to fly.

More soon...
Great way to spend quality time with the family , awesome idea :) .
 

mayan

Well-known member
#54
Regardless I still want to find some time tomorrow to analyze my servo issues with the Mini Edge and Tedge. As well as change the thrust angle on the Tedge to see if it helps drop the constant loop it kept entering on its first maiden.
I didn't get to this yet but will after my shift at work so @Hai-Lee thanks for explaining :).
 

mayan

Well-known member
#55
Ok well I haven’t had the time to do any checking and fixing on my planes today having spent the morning helping the kids build their TT. It’s getting late here now and I pretty much have to get some sleep so that I won’t collapse. Will try to do some checking and fixing in the morning before I hit the field.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#56
You've sure got your hands full with all those projects! I've had that experience too, where you maiden a plane, and then either due to repairs or no real reason, it flies aweful the next time you launch it. That slender delta build with the sloppy elevons I just did was just like that-I don't even know how it flew the first time, but the second time it flew like garbage. Hopefully you get the thrust angle squared away on your Tedge. Stuff like that is to be expected with custom scratch builds though, none of the thinking is done for you like on a kit where thrust angle and stuff are all accounted for. I've had a lot of issues with thrust angle developing my design, and I've backed away from elevons for a bit until I'm more precise at setting up my controls and linkages. I've changed my design from a standard slender delta to a tailed slender delta with an AET setup, and this one flew on maiden, but I need practice with it.
 

Attachments

mayan

Well-known member
#57
This morning started bad, really bad! I had a major fight with my son over the TV, his sister got earlier so I allowed her to watch until it was time to get up. When I got up and went to wake up my son, I asked her to turn off the TV and she did. He saw that and started screaming that he wants to watch TV too. I explained what happened but he refused to understand and didn't calm down, I got fustrated and sent him to his room; we were all angry at one another and it showed, when my wife came home from her night shift. I finished getting them organized for school, and I went to drop them off. When I came home I was mad and exhausted, so I layed down for 5 mins and got up an hour later wondering where my morning went.

I quickly grabbed my TT and Edge and head out to the field. It was windier than I expected it to be but I didn’t care I am not afraid of it. I prepared the TT first because that’s how I get comfortable on the sticks again. Flew for a bit over the grain field but a trim issue made me crash and then it happened again I lost the plane. The lost plane buzzer that I had seems to have stopped working :(. I searched for the plane for a good 20 mins until I found it and decided to stop flying over it again although it makes for a great pillow, at least until I order new buzzers.

The other day I was looking through some pictures and was shocked to see how the best field on earth grew into a nightmare to fly over.

A few months back
D3025D62-DDCA-4819-B597-4422D0CB0FD5.jpeg

Today
618F14EF-C6C1-4A65-9380-50C9C3C2CC67.jpeg

Any how I still had charged batteries and set looking for a different area to fly in close by and then I found this.

5D89D6A8-F7CC-4FD6-BDFB-CB518821E72E.jpeg

Which over looks this
View attachment E3FD9381-E0E4-4BE6-AE72-5A6F6C12AA39.jpeg

I even made myself a wind direction teller :)
9CA79949-B967-4877-8CE2-3A082E882EEE.jpeg

I finished the first battery and put in a new one. Things were going fine until a strong up wind pushed the plane to the ground calling it KO. You can see pictures of the damage and the details regarding it on this awesome thread: Crash Support Group.

I whiched over to the Mini Edge. At first I was over controlling but quick enough eased out my stick movements and handled to my satisfaction. Doing a roll to inverted I crash and broke the servo are of one of the ailerons and lost the push rod too so could fix it even though I had servos arms with me this time :(. I packed and went home.

Didn’t fix the damage of the Mini Edge yet, however the TT is not going to be repaired since the tail has already been fixed before. Instead I’ll hack up and old fuselage that I have laying around with some servos.
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
#58
This morning started bad, really bad! I had a major fight with my son over the TV, his sister got earlier so I allowed her to watch until it was time to get up. When I got up and went to wake up my son, I asked her to turn off the TV and she did. He saw that and started screaming that he wants to watch TV too. I explained what happened but he refused to understand and didn't calm down, I got fustrated and sent him to his room; we were all angry at one another and it showed, when my wife came home from her night shift. I finished getting them organized for school, and I went to drop them off. When I came home I was mad and exhausted, so I layed down for 5 mins and got up an hour later wondering where my morning went.

I quickly grabbed my TT and Edge and head out to the field. It was windier than I expected it to be but I didn’t care I am not afraid of it. I prepared the TT first because that’s how I get comfortable on the sticks again. Flew for a bit over the grain field but a trim issue made me crash and then it happened again I lost the plane. The lost plane buzzer that I had seems to have stopped working :(. I searched for the plane for a good 20 mins until I found it and decided to stop flying over it again although it makes for a great pillow, at least until I order new buzzers.

The other day I was looking through some pictures and was shocked to see how the best field on earth grew into a nightmare to fly over.

A few months back
View attachment 128535

Today
View attachment 128529

Any how I still had charged batteries and set looking for a different area to fly in close by and then I found this.

View attachment 128530

Which over looks this
View attachment 128531

I even made myself a wind direction teller :)
View attachment 128533

I finished the first battery and put in a new one. Things were going fine until a strong up wind pushed the plane to the ground calling it KO. You can see pictures of the damage and the details regarding it on this awesome thread: Crash Support Group.

I whiched over to the Mini Edge. At first I was over controlling but quick enough eased out my stick movements and handled to my satisfaction. Doing a roll to inverted I crash and broke the servo are of one of the ailerons and lost the push rod too so could fix it even though I had servos arms with me this time :(. I packed and went home.

Didn’t fix the damage of the Mini Edge yet, however the TT is not going to be repaired since the tail has already been fixed before. Instead I’ll hack up and old fuselage that I have laying around with some servos.
Wow, that is a bad flying day! I feel for you, man. It happens to all of us. Believe me. I know! :)
 

mayan

Well-known member
#60
Sorry you had repair work to do, but I'm loving that dirt strip you found! Might be time to get the simple scout airworthy again, huh?
I think I’ll get the electronics installed in it soon and have 3 planes that I’ll take with me to the field for practice the TT (as a get shock out plane), the Simple Scout (to practice ground take offs and landings), the Mini Edge (to practice aerobatics).