Time to try a tri

[jhitesma]

Well nuts. Had a few minutes before the girls got home and gave it a quick try (despite winds that should have made me wait.)

It's much smoother now. But same problem. The tail just doesn't want to lift until I really give it a bunch of forward pitch. And holding it above my head it correctly fights movement in all directions...except if I try to drop the tail...then it doesn't react and just lets the tail drop.

If I try to raise the tail it fights it. If I try to tilt it in any other direction it fights it correctly. But for some reason it just does not want to send throttle to that tail motor.

I'll see if I can try dropping the gyro_lpf stupid low tomorrow and if that makes any difference...but I'm not expecting miracles.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

Ahhh, I was going to suggest solving your most probable issue by grabbing the $10 KK2 mini, but they have bumped it back to $21 again.

 

[jhitesma]

Not stepping down to a KK. Really don't care for the way they fly and absolutely hate having to use the LCD/buttons. Plus the way I fly I wouldn't give an LCD 24 hours before it's useless

I still have a number of tune things I can try...or I may try flashing Tau onto it.

Just seems like something is really wrong with that tail rotor....it spins up but doesn't seem to be getting the right signal. Just not sure yet if it's the FC not sending the right signal or the ESC not responding to the signal.

And while swapping motors did get rid of a lot of vibrations...it's still pretty rough. I really want to ditch the collets - I can see that they're not running true. With them off the motors look good and straight, but the collets aren't concentric.

I could try the collets off my Knuckle. I could try the 1400kv motors off my knuckle.

Lots of things I could try...just not much time. This weekend I have a girl scouts hike with my daughter, have to build some raised beds for our garden, have to till the backyard and reseed the lawn for winter, need to get the hot water heater my friend found me installed in the outside kitchen so brew season can start....and I'd like to find some time to relax and hopefully fly my quads/hex Oh yeah, gotta figure out what happened to the video system on the hex too!

Just can't believe how badly this tri is acting.

 

[jhitesma]

OK, did some more bench testing...think I may have found the problem.

I had noticed that the tail motor was always warmer than the other 2 even though it's not keeping up. I had also noticed an occasional odd sound from it.

Hooked up the configurator, armed it (no props) and confirmed on the motors tab that when I drop the tail the signal is sent telling the tail to speed up. But the motor didn't sound like it actually was.

Disarmed, enabled motor testing, and did some playing with the tail motor manually. Found that it's making a metallic clicking sound sometimes when throttling up - kind of like a desync. And a few times giving it really quick changes in throttle it just locked up and started jittering.

But biggest thing I noticed, giving that motor quick throttle punches it "kicks" more than the other motors do.

Took it apart to look for anything obvious...and it was filthy. Just really nasty inside. Cleaned it out, but it's still doing the same things.

I think there may be a damaged winding on that motor. Going to swap it for another next and see how it goes....could still be an ESC issue but with as dirty as that motor was...I'm definitely thinking it's a motor issue.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

Not sure why many like to poo-poo the KK2. With current Steveis' it is nothing like the old 1.6 versions. I will go as far and say, it's close to the Naze, especially with the mini KK2 being about the same weight. I think it's because it's considered a "beginner board" and it's true, it's not as fast as the Naze. But for 95% of flyers, especially tricopter flyers, it's plenty when you add the convenience of it working without effort. And with the enclosed version with the detachable control and display, it more or less is as robust and any other card, and the buttons are 30% bigger and 25% more spaced apart. But yea the enclosed version is 32g vs the Naze at around 9.

All I'm saying is if you reach a point where the frustration makes you put it aside, $20 will solve the control problem.

If the below can be done with the KK2, that's all I need. This Hallstudio was done long before the 'better' ~(v1.7) Steveis versions.

 

[jhitesma]

And I don't understand why people consider the KK easier. My experiences with it were far more frustrating than my experiences with "more complex" boards. I find the LCD and buttons aggravating, annoying and simply miserable to use.

But that's the nice thing about having choices - we don't have to agree on things and can choose what works best for each of us.


I did get the tail motor swapped last night...and it seems a bit better - but I'm still getting some stuttering from it when I test it with the slider...so I'm starting to suspect it could be the tail ESC that's really causing all of my issues. Thankfully I still have at least 8 other ESC's I could use on hand But swapping all three doesn't sound like a ton of fun or anything I have time for right this minute. And want to do a test flight first to see if it's any better...but I'm really suspecting this tail ESC as the root cause of problems now.

 

[airhawk]

looks like a nice tri im looking forward to seeing this thing up and running again

 

[Cyberdactyl]

And I don't understand why people consider the KK easier. My experiences with it were far more frustrating than my experiences with "more complex" boards. I find the LCD and buttons aggravating, annoying and simply miserable to use.

But that's the nice thing about having choices - we don't have to agree on things and can choose what works best for each of us.

Yea, I guess I've grown used to the KK2. With all the modules and odd add-ons I've put on over the last 3 years, I found it invaluable to be able to fiddle and tweak settings on a whim when taking stuff off, putting something different on, or if I need more lazy control for a camera, etc. I must admit though, I do need to wear glasses reading the display except at night. The lit display is so much easier to read in low light. The mini KK2's display is even worse at ~15% smaller.

 

[airhawk]

is it just me or does the tri look smaller then a David Windistal tri probably just zoom these frames used to be on the ft store

 

[jhitesma]

is it just me or does the tri look smaller then a David Windistal tri probably just zoom these frames used to be on the ft store

Just you It's all DW parts. It's hard to see in the photos but the RCE logo is on the plates and the arms are definitely DW nice layup arms not pultruded.

It surprised me at just how big it is unfolded, and how small it is folded up.

BTW - Didn't get a chance to try flying it today. Debating if I want to try flashing the ESC's tonight or just swapping them for another set. Will probably do neither and just be lazy tonight since I've got such a busy weekend ahead

 

[airhawk]

oh it looks like dw but those pics make it look small aren't they quiet big

 

[mark shinn]

Matt Hall of Simplecopter sure can fly the balls off of a KK board. That video was an inspiration to me. I recently swapped out my trusty KK 2.15 for the Naze 32 Acro and was initially very disappointed. A week and a half of tweaking and testing/rinse and repeat and I am now happy with the results. Switching to PID controller 3 and swapping out my yaw servo to a Savox 0255 made the difference for me. Hang in there and best of luck.

 

[jhitesma]

So bit of progress to report.

Last night I finally made some time to try swapping the two of the ESC's. I was suspecting the tail ESC as the main cause of my problems so I figured swapping it for one of the others the problem should follow the ESC if the ESC is indeed the issue.

Well, after swapping them the tail is now lifting! And the arm with what was the tail ESC is....also lifting. Ok...so the problem seems to have gone away? Well, not quite.

The motor that now has what was the tail ESC now sounds "off". So I'm still thinking there's something wrong with that ESC. I did notice that it's big power cap is kind of squished...so I'm theorizing that maybe in a crash it was smacked on something and could be contributing to the problem. I have a few other sets of ESC's laying around so I'll probably try swapping to a different set next to see how things go.

I was able to almost fly today though. I had it in a sort of almost hover - but it definitely has some vibration issues and every now and then it just suddenly "surges" and goes wonky. So something is still up.

I tried dropping the gyro_lpf down to 10 and it wouldn't fly at all. But raised it up to 98 and it flew better. Raised it to 188 and it got worse again. So I'm pretty sure vibrations are an issue. Holding it over my head and idling I can feel some big slow vibrations. And looking at the motors spinning I can see that prop adapters aren't very straight - there's a lot of runout in 2 of them.

It's also really under powered on 3s with these motors.

So....

I still need to find better prop adapters for these motors.

I'm also going to cross my fingers and hope HK puts a 4s pack up on their cybersale.

And while I work on those two I'm going to swap in one of these other sets of ESC's. Or maybe first just replace the cap on the one ESC and see if that helps. I'll also go through the prop adapters nils sent with it and see if I can pick the 3 best. Motor shafts seem straight, it's just the adapters seem to have issues.

 

[cranialrectosis]

There is a feeling of dread you get when holding your tricopter and you feel this slow pulsing hum when the motors/props get into a rhythm, wwwwuuuubbb wwwwuuuubbb wwwwuuuubbb.

Good luck with the ESC. Hope it's just that cap.