Tricopter unstable / Can't get good footage

[Fern-Fox]

Hey guys so my tricopter, looks like this:
View attachment 27553

Heres the specs:

Motors: NTM Prop Drive 800kv
ESCs: Afro 30A
FC: KK2.1.5
Props: Slowfly 10in
Bat: 2200mah x2 / 4000mah x2 11.1v
Video Tx: 600mw ImmersionRC
Tx/Rx: Turnigy 9x

So as you can see in this video:

Its quite shaky and kinda hard to control.
I've spent at least an hour trying to tune the KK2.1.5 but I just cannot get it to be stable.
The yaw kinda wobbles back and forth and the video footage from it is always just shaking around and unstable

Could someone help me get it super-tuned out and stable with no wobble in my video, thanks a bunch for the help!

I'm waiting on some carbon fiber booms to get here so that should also help me get more stable footage

 

[cranialrectosis]

Wherever you are flying is beautiful.

Is this your first copter and have you ever flown any other copters before this one?

Are you tuning in acro mode or in auto level?

Are you running the stock firmware on the KK2.1.5?

Please supply a link to the motors you are running.

What does your copter weigh with everything in the air? What do your batteries weigh on the copter?

How much throttle do you use to lift off? Does the copter tip when you 'gun it'?

It seems to me that you are underpropping your 800kv motors with the 10" rotors. I think you could probably get away with it on a copter that weighs <900 grams with battery. I would need to see the specs and would like one of the forum heavies to chime in.

I think your copter is 'squirrely' or 'unbalanced' due to a load and too short rotors for the kv motors and or stock firmware. I think it is flyable but this is a tri-copter and tri-copters fly best when they are flying forward. It's what makes them 'swooshy' and special. Hovering in place is hard for any human. Flying from someplace to somewhere is always easier, particularly with a tri-copter. The copter will always move in the air and will always require your full attention to hover.

I do think it can be better than what I see in the video.

Stock firmware on a KK2.1.5 blows. Whether or not you make any other changes, flash to a better firmware. It should be the first change you make if you haven't already.

 

[Fern-Fox]

Wherever you are flying is beautiful.

Is this your first copter and have you ever flown any other copters before this one?

Are you tuning in acro mode or in auto level?

Are you running the stock firmware on the KK2.1.5?

Please supply a link to the motors you are running.

What does your copter weigh with everything in the air? What do your batteries weigh on the copter?

How much throttle do you use to lift off? Does the copter tip when you 'gun it'?

It seems to me that you are underpropping your 800kv motors with the 10" rotors. I think you could probably get away with it on a copter that weighs <900 grams with battery. I would need to see the specs and would like one of the forum heavies to chime in.

I think your copter is 'squirrely' or 'unbalanced' due to a load and too short rotors for the kv motors and or stock firmware. I think it is flyable but this is a tri-copter and tri-copters fly best when they are flying forward. It's what makes them 'swooshy' and special. Hovering in place is hard for any human. Flying from someplace to somewhere is always easier, particularly with a tri-copter. The copter will always move in the air and will always require your full attention to hover.

I do think it can be better than what I see in the video.

Stock firmware on a KK2.1.5 blows. Whether or not you make any other changes, flash to a better firmware. It should be the first change you make if you haven't already.

I've flown a DJI F450 knockoff (Aerosky H100) That I converted to a DJI F450 with the Naza-M Lite and I've been flying it for around a year. I just recently got my tri

I tune it in acro but I want to get my auto-level more stable

Im running the stock firmware

Im using these motors: http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...Motor_short_shaft_version_USA_warehouse_.html
But I just recently was going to fly, I throttled up and this clicking sound came from one of them, I think it was the bearing. But anway, I'm going to get these motors: http://www.amazon.com/SunnySky-X221...=UTF8&qid=1407200612&sr=8-1&keywords=sunnysky
Do you think they will fly good with 10in props on 3cell?

My battery pack weighs 347g frame is around 300g, electonics probably around 100-50g

I use about 55-60% throttle to lift off at 100 percent it does lean forward a bit but it shoots up like a rocket

I think the sunnyskies will work better, and I've seen multiple tests and they seem to be MUCH better motors than the NTMs

 

[jhitesma]

My friend runs those sunnysky's with 10" props on his 450 sized quad and it's a great combo for that size. Very efficient and very powerful combo.

 

[cranialrectosis]

Thank you, jhitesma (a forum heavy).

You are going up by 180 kv. It will make the 10" rotors more powerful. The Sunnysky motors have a far better reputation. NTM motors work but have a poor reputation on this forum.

It may be possible that you have a too long screw going up into the motors to mount them. That can cause heat, vibration and ticking sounds. This can be adding to instability and may be root cause of a tilt when you 'punch it' but is probably not enough to make the copter so hard to fly.

From your answers, you know what a copter is supposed to feel like and are tuning in acro. I think you want to reflash that KK2 to a new firmware and re-tune PI. The stock firmware on a KK2.1.5 is notoriously hard to fly. Several people have complained that they were unable to tune these boards well before updating.

 

[Craftydan]

For tuning SL you may need ot back off on the Gyro gains a little -- with both on and a strong SL response, it can get a little overcontrolled, and with a weak response the SL will be a bit mushy.

BTW, which ROM are you using? Stock roms are garbage -- fine for testing the hardware but buggy. If you haven't look into upgrading the ROM to either Steveis or RC911's ROMs. Some of the latest roms include "Profiles" so you can create multiple settingss for your chosen style of flying for the moment -- setup a profile for acro, beginner and FPV mode . . . flip and zip around the field, land, switch profile and hand the TX to a beginner, after he lands, pop on the FPV gear, switch the profile again and have a stable camera ship.

 

[Fern-Fox]

For tuning SL you may need ot back off on the Gyro gains a little -- with both on and a strong SL response, it can get a little overcontrolled, and with a weak response the SL will be a bit mushy.

BTW, which ROM are you using? Stock roms are garbage -- fine for testing the hardware but buggy. If you haven't look into upgrading the ROM to either Steveis or RC911's ROMs. Some of the latest roms include "Profiles" so you can create multiple settingss for your chosen style of flying for the moment -- setup a profile for acro, beginner and FPV mode . . . flip and zip around the field, land, switch profile and hand the TX to a beginner, after he lands, pop on the FPV gear, switch the profile again and have a stable camera ship.

Pardon me, but I'm lost, are you talking about the KK2? As in with a new firmware I could do more things, like use a 3 position switch to have 3 different modes?

 

[cranialrectosis]

I re-read this today and have noticed you are coming from a DJI Naza flight controller.

DJI Naza makes a copter into a flying robot. These are some of the finest flying robots you can have. They are stable, loaded with features and you can let it fly the copter for you.

The KK2 will not make a flying robot. With a KK2 you will have to fly the copter yourself. It will NEVER have the stability of the Naza, but you can flip a KK2 in acro mode, I don't think you can ever flip a Naza.

The difference between these two boards is HUGE. It is like going from a chaufferred limo to a sportscar with a manual transmission. The KK2 will NEVER EVER fly like a Naza. You will have to learn to fly all over again as the Naza has shielded you from the labor of flying.

I fly KK2s and Naze 32s and now have a NanoWii. None of my boards have a barometer or GPS and cannot fly themselves. I am a biker and prefer the thrill of the manual transmission to the luxury of relaxing in the back. This is a personal preference you will have to work out for yourself.

 

[Fern-Fox]

My friend runs those sunnysky's with 10" props on his 450 sized quad and it's a great combo for that size. Very efficient and very powerful combo.

Cool, the NTMs are so tiny! I've heard great things about the sunnyskies, Ill order them today and send back my NTMs

 

[cranialrectosis]

Pardon me, but I'm lost, are you talking about the KK2? As in with a new firmware I could do more things, like use a 3 position switch to have 3 different modes?

Yes he is. The stock ROM (firmware) on a KK2.1.5 blows. Flash to a newer firmware and some of your problems will go away and it opens up whole new options to control the board.

 

[Fern-Fox]

I re-read this today and have noticed you are coming from a DJI Naza flight controller.

DJI Naza makes a copter into a flying robot. These are some of the finest flying robots you can have. They are stable, loaded with features and you can let it fly the copter for you.

The KK2 will not make a flying robot. With a KK2 you will have to fly the copter yourself. It will NEVER have the stability of the Naza, but you can flip a KK2 in acro mode, I don't think you can ever flip a Naza.

The difference between these two boards is HUGE. It is like going from a chaufferred limo to a sportscar with a manual transmission. The KK2 will NEVER EVER fly like a Naza. You will have to learn to fly all over again as the Naza has shielded you from the labor of flying.

I fly KK2s and Naze 32s and now have a NanoWii. None of my boards have a barometer or GPS and cannot fly themselves. I am a biker and prefer the thrill of the manual transmission to the luxury of relaxing in the back. This is a personal preference you will have to work out for yourself.

Oh, I learned to fly with a multiwii in "manual" mode or with the auto level off. It took me a loonng time to get to the point where I could hover, but I got there. I never even thought about flipping it. But once I got the naza I put it in manual mode and it was almost exactly the same as the multiwii, I've done a couple flips before in FPV around 150ft in the sky xD

 

[cranialrectosis]

Gotcha. I didn't know your skill level. Folks who learn on a Naza going to a MW or KK2 tend to get a shock.

 

[Fern-Fox]

Yes he is. The stock ROM (firmware) on a KK2.1.5 blows. Flash to a newer firmware and some of your problems will go away and it opens up whole new options to control the board.

Could you link me to a fast shipping way to get one on ebay? Hobbyking is out of stock (Shocker :/)
^ the programming tool ^

 

[Craftydan]

Pardon me, but I'm lost, are you talking about the KK2? As in with a new firmware I could do more things, like use a 3 position switch to have 3 different modes?

yup!

Hate to send you elsewhere for the details, but have a look over at the multikopter forum (you'll have to be registered and logged in to see this -- closed forum ):

http://www.multikopter.co.uk/forum/topic/1714-kk2-firmware-by-rc911/

It won't do much more than change how the existing stability modes respond -- still can't RTH or Alt/position hold -- but you'll be surprised how much a difference that will make in how it will fly. The mixed SL mode is particularly nice for giving you a relaxed, self correcting Acro that still feels nice on the sticks.

All this and it's now available in the kkMulticopter Flash Tool's repository

 

[cranialrectosis]

Could you link me to a fast shipping way to get one on ebay? Hobbyking is out of stock (Shocker :/)
^ the programming tool ^

I think mine is a standard USBASP programmer from Amazon but mine was a gift and I am unsure as to where it came from.

I think this will do the job:
http://www.amazon.com/Hobbypower-USBasp-Programmer-Multicopter-Control/dp/B00DU4A58A

 

[Fern-Fox]

Just ordered a programmer and the sunnyskys, programmer will be here by tommorow, motors next week. How do I update the KK2 to a better firmware? Thanks for the help guys
Im on &#63743; Mac

 

[Fern-Fox]

Will this work?
http://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Pro...p/B0051SRZWC/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

[sy101]

Do you have any expo dialled into your transmitter controls? The tricopter doesn't look inherently unstable, more like it's reacting quite harshly to inputs, maybe a little (or a little more), expo would help. Just a thought.

 

[Craftydan]

Will this work?
http://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Pro...p/B0051SRZWC/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

yup. It's open-source hardware, so there are plenty of cheap manufactruers punching these things out.

One thing you'll need -- an 8-pin to 6-pin adaptor, like:

http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Board-AVRISP-USBASP-STK500/dp/B00FHHYJ7G/ref=sr_1_2

Not recommending this seller (I know nothing about them), just pointing the part out. Some sellers have both the USBASP and the adaptor in the kit, but it might be at a premium. You can also jury-rig your own if you've got the headers and patience -- LazyZero's site has details of that.

 

[Balu]

Im on &#63743; Mac

kkMulticopter Flash Tool