TwitchFrames Mini-Tri 175 Build Log

Twitchity

Senior Member
It's been awhile since I've updated this and like I tend to do more often than not I didn't get any pictures along the way. At this point though all the wiring was done so it was just throwing parts on to complete the build. I tried to sleeve the ESC signal wires but it just looked too cluttered. I opted to go with some black silicone wire instead which became a little confusing making sure I was connecting the right one to the signal/ground pins on the Naze.

I've only had a chance to hover inside the house so far but everything is in working order. The tail has a wobble to it, but so did my last tricopter. I'll have to go back and see what was the cure for my previous build and do the same for this one. I thought my last tricopter was bad, but this one is worse with even less space. Spent many hours scratching my head trying to figure out where/how to mount everything.

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And the tricopter gave birth to a smaller one. It's a miracle of nature.

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Twitchity

Senior Member
I swear Twitchity every time you finish up a build a new one just appears.

It does appear to be that way haha. I enjoy building these things, if someone wanted to buy the parts and send them to me I'd put together the quad for them.
 

Twitchity

Senior Member
Thanks Cranial, I checked yaw D and it was set to 0. I went back through my old build thread and found a few settings I gave a try. Changing set gyro_lpf from 188hz to 42hz seemed to have made the change I was looking for. Just need to find time to take it out and go flying now!
 

jipp

Senior Member
looks great. iv decided to try and rebuild my 130 insect. last night i solderd the 1104 to the 10A esc directly, talk about hard.
the motors only had one single hair wire to solder to the ESC> laughs.

but all 4 are solder.. just have to dig through my bench for a PDB.. if i find one ill work on it this evening.
figure i needed to do something while i wait for parts for the 230 martian.. even tho i told my self i was not gonna work on anything smaller than 200mm because of my skill level.. but i figure worse thing i can do is screw up.. so what the heck i had the parts on the bench figure id give it ago.
crosses fingers i do not screw it up.

if i do i did learn one thing.. heck with the 1104 motors ill just go to 1306.

i have not tried to fly a tri-copter yet.. maybe after i finish my projects ill try one of your mini tri-copters :D
we all need a tri in our inventory to crash :D

but to be honest i think id take you up on your offer to just build the mini tri for me and i buy the parts. laughs. i do not have the skill yet for a tri, but the more i build hopefully ill get better :D

chris.
 
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Twitchity

Senior Member
Hopefully Jason will see this. I'm giving dRonin a try on a Naze32 rev6 and have a question I'm hoping he can answer for me. I have my X4R-SB hooked up via sbus to pin 4 on the Naze. Where in the GCS do I go to configure this, and what option do I need to select?
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Hopefully Jason will see this. I'm giving dRonin a try on a Naze32 rev6 and have a question I'm hoping he can answer for me. I have my X4R-SB hooked up via sbus to pin 4 on the Naze. Where in the GCS do I go to configure this, and what option do I need to select?

I don't have a computer with GCS available to me tonight...(well, this notebook does have it but an OLD copy which is segfaulting and my build environment is too far out of date to build the latest version and this notebook is too old to run the official linux release.)

Also, I've never used a rev6 or s.bus....but...what you want should be on the Hardware tab of the configuration page. I just don't know off the top of my head exactly which setting you'd need to change how.

But I bet you can figure it out now that you know where to look.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
Hopefully Jason will see this. I'm giving dRonin a try on a Naze32 rev6 and have a question I'm hoping he can answer for me. I have my X4R-SB hooked up via sbus to pin 4 on the Naze. Where in the GCS do I go to configure this, and what option do I need to select?

In the GCS go to the config/inputs tab and select sbus from the input drop downs. Check out pic 5 on this post:
http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?26581-CranialRectosis-Alien-4-quot-Build&p=276921&viewfull=1#post276921

Since this is a Naze not a Brain you may also have to configure a port. I have no idea how to do that and would have to ask the guys on the IRC.
 

Twitchity

Senior Member
Thanks Jason and Cranial. I did find the config/inputs tab the first night and changed them to sbus, but it didn't make a difference; my transmitter wasn't communicating with the FC. I'll have to dive into the IRC this weekend to see if if someone there can help me remap the port the receiver is connected to. Only downside is I have to plug in my battery to get power to the receiver and doing so pins my servo all the way to one side in dronin. I'll have to disconnect the servo first as it got extremely hot to the touch when I initially started messing around with it.

I may end up going back to clea flight or give beta flight a shot if dronin is too complicated to get working on the rev6 Naze. I just really want to give the auto tune a shot.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
I had the same issues with my tail servo on dRonin. It pegged over hard, made a bunch of noise and got hot pretty quickly. I documented the steps I took to set up dRonin on my Rev5 for my mini-tricopter with pictures! :)

I had to re-center the servo and set up the outputs and motors correctly in the output and vehicle tabs to get it to sit right and not get hot.

The only difference is that I am not using sBus on my Naze. I only have sBus receivers on my Aliens.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
The settings on the inputs should get set by the input wizard. I know Cranial didn't have luck with the wizards but he's the exception since most people have had no problems with them. The input wizard in particular is way easier to use than the manual settings and has had some good fixes from dRonin that solved a number of issues I had with it under Tau.

However - those aren't what sets the type of RX you're using. Those just map input types to input functions. You can actually run multiple inputs at once if you're feeling crazy - so you could use a PPM RX for your throttle and aux channels but hook up sbus for roll/pitch/yaw. Not sure why someone would want to do that but you can. Kind of like the stabilization settings where you can choose stabilization method per axis.

What you need to do is go to the Hardware tab and change the rxport to s.bus. At least I think it's the rxport. I can't check because while I do have GCS on this computer I don't have a board handy and the hardware tab only populates when you have a board connected (since it's different for different boards.) It may be mainport. I just don't remember.

Basically hardware tab is where you set which port does what - so you need to let it know which port you're going to run sbus on and set it for sbus. Inputs tab is where you map available input methods to controls.

For boards other than Naze32 the vehicle setup wizard will setup the hardware tab for you. For all boards the input wizard will greatly simplify setting up the inputs tab.

Oh - and don't forget if you want to try hangtime be sure to setup switch arming instead of stick arming. If you run autotune and share your results you can pull them up on http://dronin-autotown.appspot.com/at/ and it will show your hover percentage as well. That can be handy for setting up hangtime and for fine tuning your throttle curve.
 

jipp

Senior Member
wow that is pretty impressive how it records the stats.. that has to be helpful in developing..

the more i read the more impress i am with dRonin. the future seems brite for the firmware and to be honest its development time is quite impressive.

chris.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
wow that is pretty impressive how it records the stats.. that has to be helpful in developing..

Yeah, that was one of the first big changes they did so they can get more consistent and reliable feedback from users to determine what needs fixing where and how. GCS also has tracking built in (which you can opt-out of when you install it) which reports back and helps then track usage. *flight actually does that too but doesn't really tell you and doesn't give you an opt-out option - but they use google analytics in the configurator app which reports back when it's being used and how.

The autotune reporting really rocks though. You can even follow the link at the bottom of an autotune to get the full details about the setup that was used. So for example this was my autotune on the angle arm UMBQ:
http://dronin-autotown.appspot.com/...hdXRvdG93bnIYCxILVHVuZVJlc3VsdHMYgICAwO6_gQoM

You can see that I had a 31ms Tau which isn't very impressive...but keep in mind I'm not running oneshot or damped light on that due to the old "simon series" emax ESC's on it. My hover is at 16% which again isn't bad but isn't great. Predicts 29883 is how many measurements the FC took during the 60 seconds of autotune and Spilled 0 means that the FC was able to keep up and measured every data point it expected to (if you see anything but 0 in there you're loosing data and are unlikely to get a good tune - that happens for example if you raise the gyro rate on a Naze32 or CC3D and the CPU can't keep up.)

There's ongoing work to build a system for comparing tunes so we can better detect if a tune was "good" or not - the problem is there's no standard way to enter things like motors and ESC's - though one of the dev's who works at google has done some slick stuff to help sanitize those fields.

But you can also click the "raw data" link down at the bottom: http://dronin-autotown.appspot.com/...hdXRvdG93bnIYCxILVHVuZVJlc3VsdHMYgICAwO6_gQoM

That's probably kind of hard to read...it's raw JSON data as reported by GCS to autotown. This plugin for chrome makes it MUCH easier to view: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jsonview/chklaanhfefbnpoihckbnefhakgolnmc?hl=en

But basically what you see in there is the equivalent of a full CLI dump from *flight, everything you'd need to replicate the setup is listed there and it's possible to make an import script that would format it so you could import it from GCS to duplicate a configuration.

the more i read the more impress i am with dRonin. the future seems brite for the firmware and to be honest its development time is quite impressive.

What I love about dRonin is that it takes everything I love about Tau - but is far more focused on usability and increasing user friendliness. The ultimate goal of the dRonin devs is to get it to where setting up a new multi is almost completely automated - you just answer a few simple questions and it does the rest. Tau and dRonin are both great in that they're very data driven - they approach things from a more solid technical basis than *flight which takes more of a "lets just toss things at the wall and see what sticks" kind of approach. They're also more focused on good development practices, CF uses CI like dRonin does (details here: https://dronin.readme.io/docs/using-automated-builds-from-jenkins) but some of the other *flight versions don't.

The underlying structure is also more modern. OP/LP/Tau/dRonin all use a RTOS instead of a main loop like *flight. That helps make things more modular and consistent and is why "looptime" isn't really a concept for them. Instead it's data driven, an interrupt from the gyro tells the flight software when new gyro data is ready - with *flight and a loop instead they just read from the gyro as fast as they can whether it's new data or not. (that's a major simplification but this is getting long already!) there's been a lot of work on raceflight/betaflight to add a scheduler which gives some of the functionality of a RTOS but it's basically just still tacking hacks on top of hacks instead of starting with a clean design from the base.

For something as complex as what *flight and OP/LP/Tau/dRonin have become the RTOS makes a lot of sense. On the other hand there's still something to be said for the approach KISS takes and going for a far simpler architecture - as long as you keep things simple and focused. Once you start adding on extra features though that kind of approach can quickly deteriorate. In some ways it's analogous to functional vs. object oriented programming with *flight and KISS being more of a functional approach and OP/LP/Tau/dRonin being an OOP approach. Functional programming is much quicker to get up and going with - but can quickly become a mess as functionality grows, while OOP is a lot more overhead getting started...but once things build in complexity it greatly streamlines and simplifies maintenance and adding new features.
 

Twitchity

Senior Member
The few times I tried to configure my setup I didn't have any luck with a setup wizard of any kind. I've been too busy after work to mess around with the tricopter but I hope that will change today/this weekend. It seems like I'm another exception to the rule lol it's all on me though, I don't have the patience when it comes to this part of the build to sit down and figure out why something isn't working as intended. I'm going to resist the urge to go back to Cleanflight and stick with dRonin.

However I do see a new FC for this frame being purchased in the near future. The auto update feature is extremely appealing too so I don't have to go through the horrid process the Naze requires.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
The settings on the inputs should get set by the input wizard. I know Cranial didn't have luck with the wizards but he's the exception since most people have had no problems with them. The input wizard in particular is way easier to use than the manual settings and has had some good fixes from dRonin that solved a number of issues I had with it under Tau.

You can't run the wizard of wizards to set the inputs until you manually set the outputs. The wizard won't do the outputs on a Naze. Outputs were much more challenging for me to work with than inputs. Once I had outputs done, inputs were simple in the GUI so I never returned to the wizard of wizards or the input wizard itself fearing that doing so would blow away the progress I made with outputs.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
You can't run the wizard of wizards to set the inputs until you manually set the outputs. The wizard won't do the outputs on a Naze. Outputs were much more challenging for me to work with than inputs. Once I had outputs done, inputs were simple in the GUI so I never returned to the wizard of wizards or the input wizard itself fearing that doing so would blow away the progress I made with outputs.

By "wizard of wizards" I assume you mean the "Vehicle setup wizard" from the main page? :D

And yes, it can't configure the ports on the Naze32. It actually can do the outputs but you have to go to the hardware tab and set your ports (unless you're using PPM input which is the default) first. It won't help remap the outputs if you have to change which motor is in which position (which is common on Naze32) but it will take care of accel calibration, setting up the output rate for the ESCs (oneshot vs. no oneshot) and setting up the neutral points for the outputs.

There may be something about outputs for tri's that it can't handle as well..but I have no tri experience other than this one rcexplorer V3 that refuses to fly. (which I really need to spend some more time but I can't seem to find good prop mounts for it.) And well, tri's are always going to be a bit more of a PITA because they're tri's :D

The input wizard ONLY affects things on the Inputs tabs, it won't wipe out anything else. But it does make setting up the inputs tab MUCH easier. Under Tau I had to do inputs manually because my RX had too much jitter and the input wizard would false trigger due to it. But dRonin fixed that and the input wizard makes it super quick and easy now.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
Yes, the vehicle setup wizard. :)

Save your goods, smoke test and set failsafe before you start that wizard. If you don't get all the way through you won't lose any configs you have already made.

The input wizard is benign to outputs but again, if you have some things working, save you goods so you can go back if the wizard fails.

With the Brains, and the Sparky dRonin is simple and wizards tend to work. The Naze is tougher because of its hardware limitations but I did get a decent tune on it. I would love to show you but we are getting HAMMERED for the 4th weekend in a row. I have 8" of snow on the ground and it is really coming down. Maybe I should waterproof it and just go for it!
 

Twitchity

Senior Member
Alright, after a few hours of tinkering around I have everything setup and ready to give the autotune feature a shot tomorrow.

My problems were:
1. There was two places in the hardware where you had to configure the receiver for sbus
2. I'm an idiot when it comes to the Taranis and forgot you have to go in and manually configure switches to specific channels. I did not do this for any of the 3 position switches which I used for flight mode selection.

Once those two issues were taken care of the rest fell in place for the most part. Ran the setup wizard for the transmitter to set which switch does what, went to Cranials thread for the servo issue, and then just fine tuned the servo values (I believe I set mine 700-2300) to get full range of motion. Confirmed autotune was active on the overview page when I flipped the switch (tri not armed at this point), set motors to spin when armed, and now all I have to do is wait for tomorrow.