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What's more useful for a novice, flaps or aileron/rudder mix?

messyhead

Well-known member
#1
I'm almost finished building my Scout, though not sure when I'll get to fly it.

It's a 4ch, but I was wondering whether to add flaperons, or have a mix with the aileron/rudder to help in turns.

My Tx only has 3 mixes available. So flaperons would mean separate channels for the ailerons and mixing them, and that leaves 2 mixes for the flaperons.

Or I could use a Y cable and have the ailerons on one channel, and then add a mix for the aileron/rudder to help in turns.

I thought that as I'm using heavier FB, the plane will likely need to fly faster, and so flaps might be a good idea for landing? But would having some rudder mixed in help with smoother turns? I don't think I'm coordinated enough yet to be able to add rudder manually as I turn.
 

Merv

Well-known member
#2
If your ailerons are setup correctly, you should not need aileron rudder mix. The main reason for the AR mix is to overcome adverse yaw.. Make sure the up aileron goes up more than the down aileron goes down. This will insure there is no adverse yaw. The drag on the down aileron side of the plane fights against the turn, adverse yaw.
 

Tench745

Well-known member
#3
The Scout flies just fine without using the rudder. My personal opinion is that adding it in as a mix only helps to make a lazy pilot, and if you don't know what the correct amount of rudder mix looks like you won't know if you have too much or too little. Flaps require the coordination to activate the switch, slide, or knob on your transmitter, and then feed in the appropriate amount of elevator to offset the pitching moment. If you don't have a way of slowing down the deployment of the flaps you'll have a sharp pitching moment you have to fight when the flaps deploy.

In short, I wouldn't bother using either mix until you feel confident flying the scout and eventually getting to the point where you can use the rudder as well.
That said, flaps are fun and if you have the room for the mix I'd go that way and play with them when you're comfortable.
 

Aireal Anarchist

Well-known member
#4
I like flaps especially on my DHC Beaver with floats & I use a Turnigy 3 Channel Servo Speed/Direction Regulator to slow down the flaps for a smooth transition , the Beaver with out the regulator, the transition is so abrupt its a rude awakening

those that like flaps or have thought about them I would like to suggest you look into the Turnigy regulator
 

messyhead

Well-known member
#6
Thanks for the responses.

I've mixed in flaperons, to the variable dial so I can slowly apply them and see how it goes. But I'll probably not use them to begin with. I had flaps on my MUTTS, on the 3 position switch, and it was quite jarring to switch them on, so I don't want to repeat that.
 
#7
Mixed aileron and rudder is not ideal. As the plane starts to roll, you put in more rudder to keep it from entering a slip. In the middle of the turn, you only need enough aileron to counteract the stabilizing effect of the dihedral, but you are holding the rudder to keep the plane coming around the turn. Then as you finish the turn you apply reverse aileron to level the wings and slowly let out the rudder as the wings are getting back to level.

A summary of this is you are applying rudder in response to the amount of bank the airplane has. It's definitely worth the practice if you want to avoid "tip stalls" while making the flight look more realistic.
 

Aireal Anarchist

Well-known member
#9
Rudder? what's that! I have been banking and yanking without a rudder and it seems to work well enough for this NUBE! :D
hahaha me too I have been a yank and bank flyer and ignored the rudder, but after a year with a race quad I have become proficient with my left stick and its translated to proper rudder use and I noticed the improvement of the fpv videos with the flat turns using rudder and opposite aileron to keep level during the rudder turn
 

LitterBug

Troll Spammer
#11
As a somewhat LOS noob myself, I think keeping it simple with no mixes is the best path forward. Learn to use each of the channels rather than depending on the mixes.

Cheers!
LitterBug
 

CustomRCMods

Well-known member
#13
Flappers on the scout are definitely not necessary, I would even recommend against them for novices because it can drastically change the flight characteristics and make stalls more likely at higher speeds. The scout especially slows down real nice, so you will be good without them unless you are landing in a tight area. I have them on my scout just for fun, and they do work great but most of the time i don’t even use them. I would go for the rudder/aileron mix if i were you, many others have pointed out that it is mainly for overcoming adverse yaw, but It also Is good for beginners as it gives nice coordinated turns. However it’s hard to advance in skill level without learning manual coordinated turns, and I have also found that the scout flies excellent even just bank n yank. My 2 cents.
 

bracesport

Well-known member
#14
@Andrew - even my V tails are bank and yank - I did have one set up with full house glider controls including rudder and flaps, but that was totalled in a less than delicate landing! I will use the rudder at some point! :D
 

messyhead

Well-known member
#15
Flappers on the scout are definitely not necessary, I would even recommend against them for novices because it can drastically change the flight characteristics and make stalls more likely at higher speeds. The scout especially slows down real nice, so you will be good without them unless you are landing in a tight area. I have them on my scout just for fun, and they do work great but most of the time i don’t even use them. I would go for the rudder/aileron mix if i were you, many others have pointed out that it is mainly for overcoming adverse yaw, but It also Is good for beginners as it gives nice coordinated turns. However it’s hard to advance in skill level without learning manual coordinated turns, and I have also found that the scout flies excellent even just bank n yank. My 2 cents.
Thanks, my main reason for considering flaps is that as I'm building using heavier foam board in the UK, it would likely need to fly faster, and I'm not sure what it's slow speed flight would be like.

I think when I do get to fly again, I'll have joined a club. So my first flight will probably be on a buddy box. I'll leave off the rudder mix for now.
 

CustomRCMods

Well-known member
#16
Thanks, my main reason for considering flaps is that as I'm building using heavier foam board in the UK, it would likely need to fly faster, and I'm not sure what it's slow speed flight would be like.

I think when I do get to fly again, I'll have joined a club. So my first flight will probably be on a buddy box. I'll leave off the rudder mix for now.
That’s a fair reason for flaps. Good point.
 

Bricks

Well-known member
#17
To practice for your landings have some altitude pull and hold some up elevator now use your throttle to control altitude, try and get used to using throttle for altitude versus elevator this is the way you want to set up your landings. Elevator will control speed and throttle controls altitude going this route you can find where your plane will fly it`s slowest and still have control.

Learn to use rudder especially for landings this is where many planes get destroyed using ailerons instead of rudder during landings. At slow landing speeds ailerons will and can cause tips talls where rudder and keeping wings flat there is much less tendency.
 
#18
True story, as a teenager I spent many sessions with a glow powered trainer on a buddy box with pretty good instructors - not once using the rudder, and nobody found out.

But most RC planes are built for at least 20G aerobatic maneuvers and have enough power to fly nearly vertical, so a little slip in a turn is not noticed. Think if it this way, you can turn even faster if you use rudder correctly.

And yes, you will save a lot of wingtips, props and landing gear if you learn to coordinate your turns and manage energy (airspeed and altitude) during takeoffs and landings.
 

bracesport

Well-known member
#19
great advice!

To practice for your landings have some altitude pull and hold some up elevator now use your throttle to control altitude, try and get used to using throttle for altitude versus elevator this is the way you want to set up your landings. Elevator will control speed and throttle controls altitude going this route you can find where your plane will fly it`s slowest and still have control.

Learn to use rudder especially for landings this is where many planes get destroyed using ailerons instead of rudder during landings. At slow landing speeds ailerons will and can cause tips talls where rudder and keeping wings flat there is much less tendency.
 

Tench745

Well-known member
#20
To practice for your landings have some altitude pull and hold some up elevator now use your throttle to control altitude, try and get used to using throttle for altitude versus elevator this is the way you want to set up your landings. Elevator will control speed and throttle controls altitude going this route you can find where your plane will fly it`s slowest and still have control.

Learn to use rudder especially for landings this is where many planes get destroyed using ailerons instead of rudder during landings. At slow landing speeds ailerons will and can cause tips talls where rudder and keeping wings flat there is much less tendency.
Just to add on to this, in test flying full scale aircraft they often set an altitude as a "soft deck" and treat that altitude like the ground, then practice landing on that altitude. We as RC flyers can do the same thing. If your field has a tree line or power lines or some other visual cue in the distance, you can practice "landing" on that visual reference. That way if something goes wrong you still have loads of space/altitude to recover. Once you figure out how the plane lands it's minimal effort to translate that sight picture and control inputs to actually landing on the ground.
Personally, I believe that when doing a maiden flight, this should be your primary goal for that first flight. As soon as you're in the air you should be learning how to get it down. Practicing landing with a soft deck give you a strong visual reference to better understand what is happening with power on and power off stalls, low speed control authority, and power vs pitch requirements.