Where to start?

[Flying Monkey fab]

1. power controls altitude
2. pitch controls airspeed

LOL, this reminds me of 4th-grade history. True in one respect but totally not true in the oversimplification. If interested start a thread on this, tag me in it, and I'll go on for paragraph after paragraph. Did I mention I was a full-time flight instructor at one point?

 

[Gazoo]

Yeah. That was oversimplified I suppose. I wasn't trying to give instruction or anything. My point was only that all of those things will carry over for the most part. The challenge is getting used to manipulating the controls and keeping orientation when transitioning to RC.

If you decide on a plane with SAFE, I started with the Apprentice S-15e. Mine came with a DX5e which will bind to multiple Rx but does not have memory for different models. I eventually went to the DX6i but was only able to use 2 levels of SAFE. The Apprentice has 3 levels of SAFE.

 

[nhk750]

I have seen beginners flying the Sport Cub and the Timber with great results and slow flying.
Sport Cub with SAFE

 

[nhk750]

One more note, larger wingspan is better, as you can see it better and it handles the wind better, but the price jumps up. You most likely will destroy the first plane...

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

Yeah. That was oversimplified I suppose. I wasn't trying to give instruction or anything.

I know, I'm like Roger Rabit and "shave and a haircut" with that. I simply must reply! All good points. Yes the big things for me will be to learn to fly with thumbs and LoS. Oh, and not being able to feel the onset of a stall.

 

[sprzout]

Dissenting opinions make it hard to decide. You have a point so I am torn. A TT would be so easy to rebuild but a safe mode machine would probably be a nicer first experience.

I'm opinionated on SAFE mode. I see how it's helpful to learn to fly, BUUUUUT...

My dad learned to fly the little UMX Radian with its SAFE technology. It became a crutch, because the SAFE autocorrects with a gyro. Now, as he's trying to learn to land the Apprentices through our flight school at my field, they have SAFE turned off because they want people to learn to deal with things like wind, and cross breezes on approach.

The attitude is that if you can learn to fly in the wind, you can fly pretty much anytime (unless your plane simply isn't powerful enough to handle it - which, in the case of most of the UMX machines, they're not meant for anything more than a 5 mph steady breeze). It's nice because at our field, around noon, the wind picks up a little, and a lot of the guys go home, because they have a hard time flying in the wind. Me, because I'm comfortable with it, I get to keep flying and pretty much have the skies to myself!

And funny you should mention the feeling of a stall...I was talking with a club member last weekend who is a full size aircraft pilot, and he learned to fly aerobatics and got checked out on Pitts style planes. He knew how to handle stalls and such because that was just one of those things he did with aerobatics. So, his instructor who was checking him off on a new plane (I think he said it was a Beechcraft? I don't remember exactly) got mad at him because he wanted him to do some sort of stall and recover. What the instructor failed to mention was, "Feel the stall, but don't ACTUALLY stall, just recover out of it BEFORE the stall actually happens."

So the pilot goes up, stalls it, and recovers, all based on his aerobatic experience, and had no problems with it. The instructor browbeat him for 15 minutes, saying it was a terrible stall, and the pilot said, "What? I didn't drift left or right, I kept it dead on, I just let the plane stall and dropped the nose, powered on, and recovered."

I guess that flying with the sticks for RC is going to be something similar when you start flying; obviously, if you try to fly the plane straight up, you're probably going to stall it, if you fly it knife edge, you're only going to have the rudder to give you the feeling of elevator...

 

[Hai-Lee]

I also have issue with a newbie learning on SAFE equipped or flight controller equipped models. It effectively means that the aircraft has 2 pilots and the newbie does not get a true experience. In such an aircraft the trainee pilot gets to "Steer" the plane around the sky whilst the electronics do the real work.

The slowest progressing pilots we have here are still addicted to their electronic co-pilots and can be down right dangerous if the co-pilot has problems or the weather exceeds the co-pilots ability to compensate. As for dangerous see what happens when a flight controller fails and the pilot cannot handle the aircraft without assistance.

Finally here we do not have many "Fly Offs", (the plane flies outside radio range and continues on into oblivion but the vast majority have been ASX, SAFE equipped, and aircraft with poorly set failsafe mode!

Just my opinions and experiences!

Have fun!

 

[Namactual]

I am going to throw my vote against SAFE as well. I get the appeal, but even with safe there is no guarantee you will not crash. If you do you are now out an expensive kit if you damage the airframe.

My vote is on the FT-TT. Cheap to build, cheap to repair and you never have to worry about expensive/hard to find replacement parts. Use the extra money you may have on a flight sim.

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

I'm opinionated on SAFE mode. I see how it's helpful to learn to fly, BUUUUUT...

My dad learned to fly the little UMX Radian with its SAFE technology. It became a crutch, because the SAFE autocorrects with a gyro. Now, as he's trying to learn to land the Apprentices through our flight school at my field, they have SAFE turned off because they want people to learn to deal with things like wind, and cross breezes on approach.

The attitude is that if you can learn to fly in the wind, you can fly pretty much anytime (unless your plane simply isn't powerful enough to handle it - which, in the case of most of the UMX machines, they're not meant for anything more than a 5 mph steady breeze). It's nice because at our field, around noon, the wind picks up a little, and a lot of the guys go home, because they have a hard time flying in the wind. Me, because I'm comfortable with it, I get to keep flying and pretty much have the skies to myself!

And funny you should mention the feeling of a stall...I was talking with a club member last weekend who is a full size aircraft pilot, and he learned to fly aerobatics and got checked out on Pitts style planes. He knew how to handle stalls and such because that was just one of those things he did with aerobatics. So, his instructor who was checking him off on a new plane (I think he said it was a Beechcraft? I don't remember exactly) got mad at him because he wanted him to do some sort of stall and recover. What the instructor failed to mention was, "Feel the stall, but don't ACTUALLY stall, just recover out of it BEFORE the stall actually happens."

So the pilot goes up, stalls it, and recovers, all based on his aerobatic experience, and had no problems with it. The instructor browbeat him for 15 minutes, saying it was a terrible stall, and the pilot said, "What? I didn't drift left or right, I kept it dead on, I just let the plane stall and dropped the nose, powered on, and recovered."

I guess that flying with the sticks for RC is going to be something similar when you start flying; obviously, if you try to fly the plane straight up, you're probably going to stall it, if you fly it knife edge, you're only going to have the rudder to give you the feeling of elevator...

I love your stall story, it illustrates proper and improper communication so well. It was totally on the instructor as he/she didn't properly communicate what was expected.

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

So, I just took the first baby step. Ordered a simulator. This seems to be the sensible way to start. See if I can get comfortable with LoS and hopefully it will have a three channel model for me to try that out.

 

[Namactual]

Good call.

I always tell people learning to fly RC LoS has a learning curve a kin to a brick wall. A brick wall that is only waist high. The muscle memory and hand eye coordination coming back at yourself is the hardest thing to overcome when you are new.

You will learn more in the first hour of your simulator than you would the first month trying to fly by yourself.

 

[jajefan]

Simulators are the way to go. Spent 2 years playing RC Sims on my phone (RC Plane 2 and 3 and RealFlight) before actually picking up a real model (Sport Cub S) and it was definitely helpful to get all the hard stuff down on a sim before throwing a $100 investment into the concrete

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

Okay, a bit of an update, I have been flying the #$%# %^ out of the simulator, really getting where I'm not reversing the controls near as much.

Ordered a radio and a Bixler 3, I know that is not the crash and rebuild of a TT or such but that is why I bought it. I figure there is no reason to fiddle with trying to learn and trying to make a flyable craft at the same time. I also have a TF foamy on the way for my second plane.
Radio got here today, WOW, things have changed in the last 25 years!
I'm looking fwd to getting the Bix setup and getting a maiden flight.

I still need to find me an action cam so I can film my shenanigans, I'm sure I'll come up with something.

One more question. Should I join the lcl RC club? they seem pretty stuffy but do have a great place to fly and might be of help?

 

[DharanFlyer]

Okay, a bit of an update, I have been flying the #$%# %^ out of the simulator, really getting where I'm not reversing the controls near as much.

Ordered a radio and a Bixler 3, I know that is not the crash and rebuild of a TT or such but that is why I bought it. I figure there is no reason to fiddle with trying to learn and trying to make a flyable craft at the same time. I also have a TF foamy on the way for my second plane.
Radio got here today, WOW, things have changed in the last 25 years!
I'm looking fwd to getting the Bix setup and getting a maiden flight.

I still need to find me an action cam so I can film my shenanigans, I'm sure I'll come up with something.

One more question. Should I join the lcl RC club? they seem pretty stuffy but do have a great place to fly and might be of help?

Running thread on this recently.

In short my answer is; Yes. I joined my local club years ago and they have a sister club we do a lot of events with. For my experience they are both really open to just about everything. The only thing "stuffy" I run into is that the club officers just are very conscious of the AMA rulings etc to keep everything safe.

 

[ElectriSean]

Definitely join the club, there's nothing like first hand help. Simulators are great, but not really the same - especially on the maiden. If possible have someone there check everything over and maiden it for you, trim it out and hand you the Tx. It's not impossible to do it all yourself, but it's way more nerve wracking.

I think you'll be happy with the Bixler.

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

Running thread on this recently.

In short my answer is; Yes. I joined my local club years ago and they have a sister club we do a lot of events with. For my experience they are both really open to just about everything. The only thing "stuffy" I run into is that the club officers just are very conscious of the AMA rulings etc to keep everything safe.

Yeah, the reason I speculated about them being "stuffy" is that based on their webpage they all seem to be serious jet, glow, or gas flyers. I'm just afraid I will get a side-eye when I show up with an electric flying pizza box or such. I will join as it is relatively cheap and maybe they will be more open-minded than I give them credit for.

 

[Namactual]

Okay, a bit of an update, I have been flying the #$%# %^ out of the simulator, really getting where I'm not reversing the controls near as much.

This is key. You are going to be light years ahead of the next guy trying to jump this hurdle flying a real model. Once you get those sticks down to where you don't have to think, you can fly pretty much anything.

 

[DharanFlyer]

Yeah, the reason I speculated about them being "stuffy" is that based on their webpage they all seem to be serious jet, glow, or gas flyers. I'm just afraid I will get a side-eye when I show up with an electric flying pizza box or such. I will join as it is relatively cheap and maybe they will be more open-minded than I give them credit for.

Don't know if all clubs allow it but I know some guys have come out and flown a day or two before signing up with the club. See if they'll let you come to the next open fly or other event. Even if it's just a day when a lot of the guys show up to fly. First time I went I didn't fly and just sat around and talked and showed them my FT planes. No snide remarks just a lot of questions. Still get them from time-to-time when someone hasn't seen them before.

 

[sprzout]

Running thread on this recently.

In short my answer is; Yes. I joined my local club years ago and they have a sister club we do a lot of events with. For my experience they are both really open to just about everything. The only thing "stuffy" I run into is that the club officers just are very conscious of the AMA rulings etc to keep everything safe.

I'll second that. Join the club. Mine has some stuffy guys, but they're thrilled to see someone new coming in and flying things out of "cardboard" (the water resistant foam board having the same coloration), and flying it with joy and fervor now that I've gotten them to warm up to me and realize I fly almost everything, from warbirds to helis to quadcopters.

I know that a lot of them are sticklers for AMA rules, but at my club, it's done specifically for safety, with an emphasis on SAFE. We've had incidents with hand launches of jets and combat wings, and so we've taken to making sure that, if you're on the flight line and a hand launch is getting ready to go down, EVERYONE is aware of it, AND the hand launch is done well away from the next closest pilot box, just to prevent any incidents.

That's another reason to belong to a club - the guys who are out there at the field are MORE than happy to help you hand launch a plane, so you're not trying to toss a plane, fiddle with the throttle, and then try to get rudder/ailerons under control after you've thrown the plane.

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

Okay, update.
I got up in what was to me the wee hours of the morning and went out and maidened the Bixler 3, I managed to fly it three times without totally destroying it so I guess I am an RC pilot now!
When I got it put together and pre-flighted this morning the rudder servo had crapped itself. I decided to give it a try anyway as it was not hard over but simply had no real authority to the left.
Due to the lack of good rudder the takeoffs were sketchy but once in the air she handled fine and I had two fair landings, I then pushed my luck with a third flight and kind of lost the bubble for a moment and cartwheeled it. Just enough damage to end the day.
I've replaced the rudder servo and patched everything else up so I'm ready to go again!