150% Modded Pietenpol

[Tonero311]

The issue with upsizing... Weight and the need for strengthening! 😲

You're dealing with it well, not even adding a lot of weight in the process!! 👍👍👋👋👋👋
Really wish I could afford CF Rods...
Although I'm getting better adapted to building slightly heavier, and learning limits!! 😋

I really like this! I hope I can find someone to cut one for me, because I'd love to build one.
I've got issues.....

Thank you very much. I know it's not in the usual FT or even Pietenpol style, but I like to push things further. When it comes to building techniques or materials.
The good thing about the CF is I can harvest it back out when retiring an air frame along with the electrics, give it a clean up and drop it straight into the next one. I keep all the pieces I use to nearest 50 or 100mm so I can sort of standardise them. I see them as a reusable investment in the hobby as opposed to a consumable item. So the plan goes, so far I haven't killed a plane that's had the CF treatment yet which is a bonus really. Major downside of it....its flipping expensive as you said.
Got the tail feathers dry fitted and can happily report if fits perfectly. The infills in the rudder work perfectly, straight as an arrow and stiff as a board. I'm more than happy with them now. Couldn't get them glued in due to no glue gun. Have to bite the bullet and buy one now. Can't come up with a better I idea to seal and reinforce the hinges.

 

[PoorManRC]

I like the idea of "standardising" the CF Rods!! 👍👍
At some point, hopefully I can do that....
I use BBQ Skewers for the same purpose, but on larger Aircraft, those have a small tendency to SNAP! 😖

I'm currently building a FT P-40... Both Tail Feathers are DOUBLED Foam Board, with a double Paper Hinge in the center, with Bevels on both sides. Keeps it symmetrical, and is considerably STRONGER and much more rigid!! 😎😉

Of course, there's less of a weight penalty on a 1380mm Wingspan Aircraft. However, the actual Airfoils in the Tail creates more lift and control than a flat piece of Foam Board....
So it actually offsets the slight weight gain!! 😉

I've nearly decided to start doing that on all larger builds - provided she FLIES well...

 

[The Hangar]

240% Commuter!!! 😲 Forgot about that one.

That commuter really caught my attention! The “standard” commuter flies so well as is, and 240% would mean it flies 240 times better, if that’s possible...

 

[Tonero311]

I like the idea of "standardising" the CF Rods!! 👍👍
At some point, hopefully I can do that....
I use BBQ Skewers for the same purpose, but on larger Aircraft, those have a small tendency to SNAP! 😖

I'm currently building a FT P-40... Both Tail Feathers are DOUBLED Foam Board, with a double Paper Hinge in the center, with Bevels on both sides. Keeps it symmetrical, and is considerably STRONGER and much more rigid!! 😎😉

Of course, there's less of a weight penalty on a 1380mm Wingspan Aircraft. However, the actual Airfoils in the Tail creates more lift and control than a flat piece of Foam Board....
So it actually offsets the slight weight gain!! 😉

I've nearly decided to start doing that on all larger builds - provided she FLIES well...

Is your tail feathers airfoiled as well as doubled up now? I seen that style.og hinge used by David in the Monster Planes video. I was thinking about that for this planes tail, but opted for CF to strengthen instead. Mainly because I couldn't work out how to airfoil it to generate extra lift. Same story with my FT-22's wing's. Didn't know how to design a KFM airfoil so just made mods I could make sense of. Do you know of any good resources on airfoils or KFM wings at all?

 

[Tonero311]

Thinking about the landing gear and wheels. Which would be better or more favourable? Moving landing gear forward or backwards to help with landing?
Got one wing half cut out, other side to be done using this one as a template. Then captive CF box spar and servo tray.
With the way I have the spar designed it would be quite easy to make a 1 or 2 piece removable wing. Stealing ideas from Josh Bixler's design in the same Monster Planes 400th Ep video.

 

[Tonero311]

A few photos of the fuselage as it sits against the (not quite) standard mini pietenpol.

 

[PoorManRC]

A few photos of the fuselage as it sits against the (not quite) standard mini pietenpol.

DEFINITELY a great size!! 😎👋👋👋👋

ABSOLUTELY go more Forward on the Landing Gear!

The Tail Feathers on my P-40... The Vstab is an obvious symmetrical Airfoil.
The Hstab is semi- symmetrical, the upper carries most of the Airfoil, but the T.E. meets in the center.
It's more like Nerdnic's "Speed Wing"....

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Do you know of any good resources on airfoils or KFM wings at all?

I did have a thread on airfoil designs and it helped me design the wing on the FT-22.
Here is a link: https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/question-on-folded-airfoil-designs.59945/

Which would be better or more favourable? Moving landing gear forward or backwards to help with landing?

The landing gear could always be more forward to help with the landing as long as you have room to move the battery back to compensate on the CG, although you won't need to move the battery around much. If you take a look at the build vid for the Simple Cub and watch the maiden at the end it takes Bix quite a few tries to land it, keeps nosing over even on pavement. Most who build the Cub will tend to move the landing gear forward. I had the same issue with my Baby Blender in the maiden, even on take off it nosed over a few times, so i raked the wheels forward and issue was solved. Didn't even have to move the battery at all.

The build is looking really clean, and now against the Mini I can see the scale. I never realized the Mini had such small ailerons, everyone says its a docile plane, might have something to do with it lol. Have you ever tried ironing the edges to seal them off? It not only helps protect the edges and stop delamination but it also strengthens up the surface as well. As a single layer Hstab/Vstab it makes a huge difference in aerodynamics and stiffens up the surfaces, especially if you iron the bevels for the hinge. It doesn't add any weight like doubling up would, or a skewer, or CF spars, or even glue weight.

Good job on the build though

 

[Tonero311]

I did have a thread on airfoil designs and it helped me design the wing on the FT-22.
Here is a link: https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/question-on-folded-airfoil-designs.59945/


The landing gear could always be more forward to help with the landing as long as you have room to move the battery back to compensate on the CG, although you won't need to move the battery around much. If you take a look at the build vid for the Simple Cub and watch the maiden at the end it takes Bix quite a few tries to land it, keeps nosing over even on pavement. Most who build the Cub will tend to move the landing gear forward. I had the same issue with my Baby Blender in the maiden, even on take off it nosed over a few times, so i raked the wheels forward and issue was solved. Didn't even have to move the battery at all.

The build is looking really clean, and now against the Mini I can see the scale. I never realized the Mini had such small ailerons, everyone says its a docile plane, might have something to do with it lol. Have you ever tried ironing the edges to seal them off? It not only helps protect the edges and stop delamination but it also strengthens up the surface as well. As a single layer Hstab/Vstab it makes a huge difference in aerodynamics and stiffens up the surfaces, especially if you iron the bevels for the hinge. It doesn't add any weight like doubling up would, or a skewer, or CF spars, or even glue weight.

Good job on the build though

Got plans for an iron in the future. Just not risen to the top of the shopping list yet. Be checking over that thread on nightshift tonight. Thank you.
The ailerons were cut in by me. They are tiny but worked well for a trainer. As flaperons they were next to useless. The standard mini is 3 channel with dihedral wing, RET setup. The one I built is 4 channel. Here's a link to that thread, https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/aileron-guidance-needed.59191/#post-483306

 

[Tonero311]

Got the wing halfs cut out and spent way too long on the wing spar. Though I'm really happy with the design of it. Just needs glued and secured to dry now. Not a chance this wing will break.

 

[Tonero311]

Not had much time to work with the daddy Pietenpol for the last week or so unfortunately. Today I got the wings halves together, outer skin clear packing taped and the carbon fibre box spar glued in. Need to wait until tonight to close it up and pin it down. Few quirks in the drawings I have discovered I need to adjust for v2 again, but nothing that isn't unusable as is for a first build attempt. It will fly so I can iron out kinks with motor, esc and battery combinations.
Not using any hot glue on this wing as I just can't decide on which glue gun to get. So time to experiment with gorilla glue and 5 min epoxy, until I find a suitable and durable upgrade to my old Stanley GR25 dual temp.
No ailerons or flaps cut yet. I still can't decide whether to give it seperate ailerons/flaps or do full length flaperons. Either way I want it to have slow flying tendency to practice landings. What do you guys think would be a better set up to go with?

 

[Grifflyer]

Not had much time to work with the daddy Pietenpol for the last week or so unfortunately. Today I got the wings halves together, outer skin clear packing taped and the carbon fibre box spar glued in. Need to wait until tonight to close it up and pin it down. Few quirks in the drawings I have discovered I need to adjust for v2 again, but nothing that isn't unusable as is for a first build attempt. It will fly so I can iron out kinks with motor, esc and battery combinations.
Not using any hot glue on this wing as I just can't decide on which glue gun to get. So time to experiment with gorilla glue and 5 min epoxy, until I find a suitable and durable upgrade to my old Stanley GR25 dual temp.
No ailerons or flaps cut yet. I still can't decide whether to give it seperate ailerons/flaps or do full length flaperons. Either way I want it to have slow flying tendency to practice landings. What do you guys think would be a better set up to go with?

I've personally never had success with flaperons, so I say go with separate flaps and ailerons!!

 

[Tonero311]

I've personally never had success with flaperons, so I say go with separate flaps and ailerons!!

Separate flaps and ailerons it is. Just noticed a way I could make the flaps flush mounted and bury the servo behind it as well. Looks like another job for.......v2🦸‍♂️.
I'm going to have to get a notebook to go through this thread and write down the mods for v2.

 

[Tonero311]

Made a centre brace for the wing. The trailing edge panel of the wing seemed too weak so I cut and shaped the spare servo tray i made for this model. Works an absolute treat. This will give the added benefit of something with a little more meat for the rear cabines to be glued to as well.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Made a centre brace for the wing. The trailing edge panel of the wing seemed too weak so I cut and shaped the spare servo tray i made for this model. Works an absolute treat. This will give the added benefit of something with a little more meat for the rear cabines to be glued to as well.

You can really see your passion for this plane in this build. You do fine work my friend, keep it up

 

[Tonero311]

You can really see your passion for this plane in this build. You do fine work my friend, keep it up

Thank you. Theres a few ugly spots here and there, but they will be easily covered up. I wonder if any of the Flite Test crew or Josh Bixler are watching? I know JB has a soft spot for the Pietenpol. I have to admit, it's a beautiful aircraft in my opinion.
Working tonight and tomorrow night so the build will have to continue on Wednesday. Can get my CF bars cut down ready though. Next up will be either finish up the fuselage or get the control surfaces cut into the wing.
Weighed my wing glued up prior to putting in the brace this morning. Came up with 210g. Not sure if this is heavy or not, though I haven't used a drop of hot glue on it yet. Be interesting what the final weight will be.

 

[Tonero311]

So update time. Today I finally got off my backside and bought a glue gun today. Added a new iron into the mix too.
With the addition of these tools I've been able to push this one on a bit better today.
I went around the tail feathers ironing the edges as per @BATTLEAXE video. Practiced on a spare set I had cut out just incase I made a bad mistake with the CF tubes, though I never did luckily. I can not underestimate how much strength this adds to the tail feathers. CF are basically overkill now with the strength and rigidity added just ironing the edges. I also weighed both sets of tail feathers I had, without CF tubes was 23g and with CF tubes was 31g. Was really surprised there was only 8g of difference.
The wing I cut the flaps and ailerons in. Thanks to @BATTLEAXE video I ironed the hinges for them too then give a very light hot glue reinforcement for my own piece of mind. I cut the control surfaces here big. 50mm with a 240mm wingchord. Full length of the wing divided in half for flaps and ailerons, minus a 30mm gap between my wing brace and the inner edge of the flaps, this one just makes me feel better for some reason😂, looks right now. This should give a lot more authority than the last mini Pietenpol I built which had really small flaperons. Function well as gentle ailerons to keep level flight, but never had the ability to do a roll or be playful😉 with. Flaperons function was useless too.
Lastly I got the servo tray mounted into position with the servos placed to. This should make the servos more secure, ensure a straight line of operation as much as possible, add more rigidity to the fuselage and give me a stop to but my front CF cabines up against.
Turtle deck has been applied too. Not a bad job. Worked out just as well and easy as the original mini, easier really because its bigger.
Big shout to @BATTLEAXE for the very informative video. This one alone has helped me improve this build and will be used even more in v2. Thanks again @BATTLEAXE

 

[Tonero311]

On a little side note. I weighed the fuselage up to it's current point and got 164g. So far wing and fuselage weigh 374g in total. Quite happy with that so far.
Not be too long until I'll have to do motor, esc and prop selection. Something 3 or 4s on a 9 or 10" slow fly prop.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

it is amazing how light and strong CF is. The ironing definitely helped out huh?

 

[The Hangar]

I just started a standard Pietenpol project. I have all the parts cut out of paper and have started cutting out the foam. Any tips you have learned while building and flying yours?