A ZMR250 build thread. Like a blackout but on a budget.

[SnowRocker88]

Here are a list of parts I have ordered so far. I will continue to update the list as I order more parts. I will also continue to post in the thread when I find things of interest.

ZMR250 Carbon - $25
(^^^ In case the listing goes away, the seller is: qualityzoneonline)
Naze32 Acro - $29 (Used and pre-soldered)
MultiStar Elite 2204 CCW (x2) - $15/ea
MultiStar Elite 2204 CW (x2) - $15/ea
Q Brain 4x20a (quad ESC) - $28
OrangeRx R615X CPPM Rx - $10
Battery Strap - $2
Nylon Standoffs - $2
Nylon Screws - $1

Current Subtotal - $162.97
Total Spent (including shipping) - $190.70

Props:
Direct Drive HQ 6X3R (Green) - $3.08/pair
Direct Drive HQ 6X3 (Green) - $3.08/pair
Direct Drive HQ 6X3R (Black) - $3.08/pair
Direct Drive HQ 6X3 (Black) - $3.08/pair
Gemfan HQ 6045 Prop Set (Orange) - $1.57/set
Gemfan HQ 6045 Prop Set (Black) - $1.57/set
Gemfan 6030 Prop Set (Black) (x3) - $1.32/set
Gemfan 6030 Prop Set (Green) (x3) - $1.32/set

Batteries:
1300mAh 3S 45-90C - $12

Items to re-use:
Spektrum Dx5e Tx - $60 (Recommend upgrading)

UPDATE 9/28/15: Before I had listed a Favourite Quattro ESC. That thing was the cause of a lot of problems. I since upgraded to the Q Brain. It's bigger and heavier but is running WAY better. I removed the Quattro from the parts/price list and am now showing the Q Brain.

Update 6/21/16: I have ditched the quattro (or 4-in-1) style ESC's for individual ESC's, a PDB (with integral BEC) and upgraded to a Rev6 Afro Naze32 with a Barometer and Magnometer.

Overall Results (08/04/2016): I'm now running 6045's. These motors have plenty of punch, the bigger props are great. It does seem to take more tuning on the P/I/D settings to get these higher pitch props to fly smoothly, but their punch is AWESOME!

I would strongly suggest not trying to run this on a non-programmable Tx. It takes a lot more of messing around in the settings of the flight controller just to get it to fly right. Just spend the extra money (not even much extra these days) to get a programmable remote and save yourself the trouble.

I'm a big fan of this quad. It flies well and it is FAST! The thing is a real hotrod! I'm still working on improving the FPV setup. I think the vTx and vRx are adequate but the antennas are garbage. It seemed to work a lot better with the dumb ol stick antennas (which I threw away...mistake).

If I did it all over again, I don't know that I'd build one of these to learn on. It's a bit of a handful if you don't have some stick time. Even after flying sim's a lot, this thing is a handful. Very easy for it to get out of hand with all the power it has. That being said, it's plenty for me now. Nothing to upgrade, nothing to want to step up to...it's a beast. Now I'm just working on my FPV flight skills (really, just lacking in the hardware area) and having a blast!

 

[cranialrectosis]

5" rotors are harder to fly than 6" rotors. On a copter, the rotors are your flight control surfaces as well as thrust. 5" rotors don't react as quickly when you want to corner or break. The heavier your copter, the more pronounced this is. 6" rotors will give you more thrust but you can control that with the throttle.

5" rotors are like having too small a rudder, elevators and ailerons on a fixed wing. It takes forever to turn.

I would suggest you replace the 2200mAh 25C lipo with a 1300mAh 45-90C lipo. You will get better power, the copter will be snappier and when you crash the 2200 will pummel your copter into the ground much harder than a 1300.

 

[SnowRocker88]

5" rotors are harder to fly than 6" rotors. On a copter, the rotors are your flight control surfaces as well as thrust. 5" rotors don't react as quickly when you want to corner or break. The heavier your copter, the more pronounced this is. 6" rotors will give you more thrust but you can control that with the throttle.

5" rotors are like having too small a rudder, elevators and ailerons on a fixed wing. It takes forever to turn.

Oh, awesome. Well, there you go then! Good news to hear. Yea, I was looking into 250 quads and everyone seems to suggest 'upgrading' to 6" props if possible so I just made the assumption that they were harder to fly on 6" props.

I would suggest you replace the 2200mAh 25C lipo with a 1300mAh 45-90C lipo. You will get better power, the copter will be snappier and when you crash the 2200 will pummel your copter into the ground much harder than a 1300.

I was hoping the weight savings from the handful of weight-saving items would offset the extra battery size. My rough estimate for All-Up weight is around 570g with this battery on my purchased setup. From what I've seen the blackout's are coming in at 450-550 which is only slightly under what I have estimated. I know how estimates go so I'm expecting 600g or so but that still doesn't seem bad. I would just really like to stick to my 2200's since it's what I run in my fixed wing setups too.

I'll keep your advise in mind tho. I just really want to avoid having multiple sizes and styles of LiPo's around. :/

 

[Team_Monkey]

I have a ZMR 250 with 2204/ 2300 Sunnysky motors and 5x3 props. I really like flying with a twichy yaw moment and this setup delivers. Now, I'm using a CC3D FC board with the gains and responses cranked. I also run 10% negative (more responsive) expo on my agreesive flight mode. The ground control station for the CC3D board has expo settings built in, in case you decide to try it without a radio change.

Keep the overall mass of your quad down (smaller battery as suggested) and the mass of the props will be fine to rotate you, at least IMHO. I will say that I only use Gemfan props. Don't bother with GWS props on a quad. I find them too flimsy. Fine for fixed wing, just not a high speed quad.

Good Luck!

 

[SnowRocker88]

I have a ZMR 250 with 2204/ 2300 Sunnysky motors and 5x3 props. I really like flying with a twichy yaw moment and this setup delivers. Now, I'm using a CC3D FC board with the gains and responses cranked. I also run 10% negative (more responsive) expo on my agreesive flight mode. The ground control station for the CC3D board has expo settings built in, in case you decide to try it without a radio change.

Hmm. I do already want a new radio (programmable with memory) for my fixed wings planes and I already ordered my Flight Controller...but not HAVING to buy a new radio before I'm 'ready' to is a very attractive option! Thanks for the suggestion. I'll keep that in mind.

So, are the 5" props better for yaw response?

Keep the overall mass of your quad down (smaller battery as suggested) and the mass of the props will be fine to rotate you, at least IMHO. I will say that I only use Gemfan props. Don't bother with GWS props on a quad. I find them too flimsy. Fine for fixed wing, just not a high speed quad.

Good Luck!

Yea, I could just buy the lighter batteries and run a 2200 if I needed at some point. Not like I couldn't use the smaller batteries in my fixed wing craft too. I just like the time between battery changes. I'll start shopping for a lighter battery. Thanks guys.

 

[jcar01]

Just finished my ZMR 250 and used these motors http://www.altitudehobbies.com/suppo-motors/suppo-m1806-2660-brushless-multicopter-motor-ccw and an open pilot CC3D. It fly's great!!

 

[SnowRocker88]

Just finished my ZMR 250 and used these motors http://www.altitudehobbies.com/suppo-motors/suppo-m1806-2660-brushless-multicopter-motor-ccw and an open pilot CC3D. It fly's great!! View attachment 39677

 

[SnowRocker88]

Anyone have a link to a battery suggestion? I'm not finding much in the way of 3S and a high C-rating like I will need.

Something like this? It's about all I could find...
Nano-Tech 1000mAh 3S 45c/90c - $10

 

[C0d3M0nk3y]

Anyone have a link to a battery suggestion? I'm not finding much in the way of 3S and a high C-rating like I will need.

This one is pretty popular for mini quads.

 

[C0d3M0nk3y]

I know a Tx with expo is suggested.

Another option would be to use a flight controller that has expo settings.

 

[cranialrectosis]

So, are the 5" props better for yaw response?

No. They are worse.

 

[SnowRocker88]

This one is pretty popular for mini quads.

Thanks! I don't know how I missed that one.

Another option would be to use a flight controller that has expo settings.

Yea, TeamMonkey mentioned the CC3D FC will handle expo internally. Definitely something I will consider.

No. They are worse.

Oh, good. Really glad I went the 6" route now!

Thanks for your input everyone! I'll be sure to keep this thread updated. Parts will come in slowly tho. I think the last shipments 'guaranteed by' date is Mar 19th or so...SLOW boat from China

 

[C0d3M0nk3y]

Check out the Naze32 acro flight controller too. It's probably the most popular FC for mini quads right now, and it's $25.

 

[SnowRocker88]

Check out the Naze32 acro flight controller too. It's probably the most popular FC for mini quads right now, and it's $25.

And, since you're suggesting it, I'm assuming it has built-in expo? Does it have GPS expand-ability?

I've already bought my KK2.1 and it's on its way already. BUT, I may be interested in upgrading it instead of buying a programmable remote. We will see.

 

[Twitchity]

From what I've gathered the Naze32 does have the ability to add a GPS, but the functionality is limited. Jhitesma probably has the most experience with the Naze32 and GPS on the forums so hopefully he'll chime in on the subject. If you wanted to take a look through his EMAX build with GPS I'm sure you'd learn a lot about the Naze32/GPS situation.

The Sparky FC running Tau Labs seems to be a popular option for a FC with GPS capabilities. The Sparky FC runs a little more than a full Naze32, but it might be the better option if you're considering GPS. http://dragoncircuits.com/shop/sparky/

 

[SnowRocker88]

From what I've gathered the Naze32 does have the ability to add a GPS, but the functionality is limited. Jhitesma probably has the most experience with the Naze32 and GPS on the forums so hopefully he'll chime in on the subject. If you wanted to take a look through his EMAX build with GPS I'm sure you'd learn a lot about the Naze32/GPS situation.

The Sparky FC running Tau Labs seems to be a popular option for a FC with GPS capabilities. The Sparky FC runs a little more than a full Naze32, but it might be the better option if you're considering GPS. http://dragoncircuits.com/shop/sparky/

I thought the best GPS FC was the ArduPilot? Or is it but the price makes it less attractive?

 

[Twitchity]

I never said the Sparky was the best option, yet was just stating that the consensus around here was the Sparky performed better than the Naze32 and is relatively close as far as pricing goes White Spy Quads had a Sparky board for even cheaper than Dragon Circuits, but I can't access his site anymore.

I've heard many good things about ArduPilot, but I don't have any experience with that setup either so I can't say which one is the best.

 

[SnowRocker88]

I never said the Sparky was the best option, yet was just stating that the consensus around here was the Sparky performed better than the Naze32 and is relatively close as far as pricing goes White Spy Quads had a Sparky board for even cheaper than Dragon Circuits, but I can't access his site anymore.

I've heard many good things about ArduPilot, but I don't have any experience with that setup either so I can't say which one is the best.

Ah, gotcha. Thanks! Well, as my FC is already on order we will see how the KK2.1 performs for a while and then we will see about upgrading.

 

[Quad]

Ah, gotcha. Thanks! Well, as my FC is already on order we will see how the KK2.1 performs for a while and then we will see about upgrading.

The Naze32 Acro is the version folks are using most. This is w/o GPS. With Cleanflight installed it allows you to take advantage of KISS ESCs and also ESCs flashed with BLHeli . Of course the GPS version works with these as well...

 

[SnowRocker88]

The Naze32 Acro is the version folks are using most. This is w/o GPS. With Cleanflight installed it allows you to take advantage of KISS ESCs and also ESCs flashed with BLHeli . Of course the GPS version works with these as well...

The KK2.1 will utilize BLHeli, right? The ESC I ordered has BLHeli flashed from the supplier, I made the assumption that it was more of a stand-alone thing where it just reacts quicker no matter what the FC board was.

KK2.1 does use SimonK, right? From what I've read BLHeli is the same thing (in some ways better) but for a different chip-set.