Darkback2's Diatone Blade 150 Build Blog

[Darkback2]

Frame: Diatone Blade 150

Flight Controller: Graupner GR-18

ESC's: Turnigy Multistar v2 6A.

Motors: DYS 1306/3100 KV

Props: Hobbyking 3*2

FPV Camera: 600tvl from Banggood

VTX: TS5828 also from BangGood

So...I currently have a DJI Phantom, ZMR 250, and Hubsan H107D FPV micro. So really this is a stupid build for me to take on. I am looking to replace the Hubsan with a slightly more powerful indoor flyer, and I want to be able to use 1 radio to control both my mini and my micro. I am concerned that the Graupner GR-18 will be too heavy, and I am also wondering about flying this thing indoors.

DB

 

[Darkback2]

First part arrived today...The Graupner GR-18 from Flite Test. So I guess this is happening after all.

I had a bit of a panic purchase and now I don't know which way I should go. I originally ordered the DYS 1306, 3100KV motors. But then I saw the reviews and they are horrible. so I paniced and ordered the DYS 1306 2300KV motors. I figured the 2800kv emax motors would have been the best, but they are back ordered and this whole thing was an impulse buy anyway. So the question is...
3100kv motors or 2300kv? I am running 6 amp esc's and both motors max out at 8 amps, so I am a bit concerned about burning out an esc if I am not careful. The other issue is the 3*2 props. I could cut down a more aggressive prop, but then I risk smoking an esc. Any help would be appreciated.

DB

 

[airhawk]

nice im subed

 

[airhawk]

Escs

First part arrived today...The Graupner GR-18 from Flite Test. So I guess this is happening after all.

I had a bit of a panic purchase and now I don't know which way I should go. I originally ordered the DYS 1306, 3100KV motors. But then I saw the reviews and they are horrible. so I paniced and ordered the DYS 1306 2300KV motors. I figured the 2800kv emax motors would have been the best, but they are back ordered and this whole thing was an impulse buy anyway. So the question is...
3100kv motors or 2300kv? I am running 6 amp esc's and both motors max out at 8 amps, so I am a bit concerned about burning out an esc if I am not careful. The other issue is the 3*2 props. I could cut down a more aggressive prop, but then I risk smoking an esc. Any help would be appreciated.

DB

The 2300 some smaller motors would be good but those would work the escs is a bit of a concern I always go over the max amp draw so if its 10 I go with 12 amps but I would switch to these http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...SMpVKjJ2F4TYfwXe8pGOFYF4xGmfRiG_roaAqQe8P8HAQ If you like this quad your going to end up going full throttle and burn those escs
Best of luck,
-Airhawk

 

[Darkback2]

If you like this quad your going to end up going full throttle and burn those escs
Best of luck,
-Airhawk

There the problem would be size and weight. This is a 150 so going from 2 grams a piece is a big difference, that and the 7 cm in length might make it hard to fit the escs without pressing up against the motors. :-( I do here you there though, I personally would have preferred to go with higher capacity escs and may swap them out later on if I find something that can fit.

DB

 

[airhawk]

just keep it under 100%

 

[Craftydan]

Darkback

. . . 2S or 3S?

Prop size sets the RPM you need for hover and flight, but KV is only half that picture. typically, at these scales the motors are wound for two speeds to allow different voltages, and at a 150 size, that's 2S or 3S. Higher KV on lower voltage, lower KV on higher voltage.

FWIW, you'll probably get more punch out of the higher voltage/lower kV combo . . . but at that size, you may be shocked at the punch a 2S pack will give you.

 

[Darkback2]

So...I had originally hoped that the constant vs burst amperage would do it especially given how light weight I am hoping to keep this thing, but the reality is, I'm not really good at saving weight. I found 20 amp ESCs that are only a little bit longer (23 mm vs 21 mm)...they are quite a bit heavier adding 20g to the total weight, but if I avoid burning out escs and having to replace them in the future then maybe it is worth it. So...I'll save the Higher kv motors, and smaller esc's for a future project.

Craftydan, I am thinking 2s indoors and 3s out...I was also thinking about 3d printing some really light prop guards for indoors, but I might go with Tupperware ducts instead I think this will add a lot of weight, but I would rather shorter flight times over patching walls...

Overall I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised, but I also realize physics doesn't bend to man's will.

DB

 

[Darkback2]

So the frame, flight controller, and some other parts showed up today. Wow is this thing small. The props have the wrong inner diameter so I had to order different ones and of course I am going to have to wait on the new ESCs and motors before I can really get cooking.

DB

 

[mpbiv]

Wish I had seen this earlier because I just built my Shrieker 130 and I did a lot of research beforehand on components.

Assuming that 3" props are what the frame can accommodate, there are really two popular motor sizes for these applications: 1104 and 1306.

Typical setup for 1104 (or similar size motors):
Motor: 1104 4000kv or higher
Prop: 3020 (DYS, HQProp, RotorX)
ESC: 10A or higher with BLHeli
Battery: ~400-500mAh 2-3S (4S possible with 20A ESC)

Typical setup for 1306 (or similar size motors):
Motor: 1306 3100kv or higher
Prop: 3030, 3030x3, 3040x3 (HQProp and RotorX)
ESC: 20A with BLHeli
Battery: ~500mAh or higher 3-4S (the smaller the mAh the higher the C rating required)

The 1104 setups are better suited for indoor flying and are a lot lighter (usually well under 200g AUW) and a little more docile. The 1306 setup is a lot more powerful and better suited for outdoor flying but also heavier (typically close to 200g if not more AUW depending on battery).

Unfortunately I am not really sure why DYS makes the 2300kv 1306's because there doesn't really seem to be a good application for them. Even the guys running 4" props opt for the 3100kv version of this motor and it does handle 4S fine.

These smaller builds are becoming extremely popular, and RotorX is the company to watch when it comes to setting the bar right now. They were the first to release 3" tri-blades for 1306 motors. They just released some 4100kv 1306 motors manufactured by T-motor, and they are supposed to handle 4S on 3" props. DYS has also followed suit and just released their 4000kv version of the 1306. HQProp just got into the 3" prop market about a month ago too.

 

[Darkback2]

Thanks for the info mpbiv. I just got in a set of 1306 3100kv motors but I broke one of them already because I got excited and really wanted to get working on things. :-( Should have ordered extras. I ended up going with 20 amp escs and am going with 3030 props. I am concerned about the reviews of the 3100 kv motors though.

DB

 

[Darkback2]

So the parts came in except for the new props. I had to be at work for the past two days anyway, so I ignored the kids (I coach a robotics team and the kids work on weekends.) and built this thing up. I didn't get to take any pictures along the way...sort of got wrapped up in doing the building part and forgot. :-(

Parts:

Frame: Diatone Blade 150
Motors: DYS 1306 3100kv
ESCs: DYS BL20A ESCs:
Props: cut down gemfan 5045 bullnose
FC: Graupner GR-18

Notes:
I ended up mounting the GR-18 backwards because the pwm wires needed a bit more room.
I used 2mm bolts as spacers for the top plate so that it would sit a bit higher giving me more room for the Graupner (it is a bit too tall.)
I plugged the escs into the wrong ports by accident but figured it out this morning. Actually this took way longer than it should have for me to figure out, in part because I am mounting the FC backwards. I just sort of convinced myself that it was me who was doing something wrong in the settings...

The FPV camera is held in place using hot glue. Not sure if that is a final solution.

I left the PID settings stock.

Once I figured out the pwm wire issue the thing flew! I haven't gotten to let it all out (it is currently just getting light outside.) but I think this thing will be a treat to fly in tight gaps... I may have underestimated it though and I am not sure I can fly this thing indoors. I'll have to see how I feel once I have the prop guards figured out.

I plan to swap out the antenna for a much smaller one/directly connected in the future...

I also spent a little bit of time figuring out how to fit this thing into my backpack along with my zmr250.



DB

 

[Darkback2]

Got to really fly it for the first time this afternoon ( I hovered in my living room this morning for about 10 seconds just to make sure it would fly). Haven't stopped smiling since. Holy crud this thing is amazing! It just goes like a rocket and handles like a dream! I zipped it around the tree stand at work and wow was it ever responsive, and I could just sort of go! I can't imagine trying to handle this thing on 4s.



The downer is...After that I can't imagine flying it indoors. I'll keep looking at a prop guard option, but really I think it would be damn near insane.

I do need to find a way to record flights though.

DB

 

[Darkback2]

So on 3s it is a rocket ship...I thought it was poky when I first tried a 2s battery. Helps if you charge them first. Honestly it just felt more manageable, but really I am just not sure. The 3s battery is significantly heavier than the 2s one, so perhaps the additional weight offsets some of the added power. I'll have to throw both on the scale at work tomorrow to give you an exact number.

I can't stop wanting to tell people how much I love this thing.

I really though this was sort of a stupid build. I decided I wanted it after flying around in the gym with both my Hubsan and my 250. The Hubsan is such a compromise. Don't get me wrong...it is great for flying around in my house, but it just feels like there is never enough anywhere else. Flying this 150 so closely matches my 250 experience that it is scary. I feel like I could fly it pretty much anywhere. I really want to get a scrap of drywall and crash it into it to see what sort of damage it does before I fly it in the house. I may wait until the 3030 props come in to see if that tames it a bit also.

DB

 

[airhawk]

So on 3s it is a rocket ship...I thought it was poky when I first tried a 2s battery. Helps if you charge them first. Honestly it just felt more manageable, but really I am just not sure. The 3s battery is significantly heavier than the 2s one, so perhaps the additional weight offsets some of the added power. I'll have to throw both on the scale at work tomorrow to give you an exact number.

I can't stop wanting to tell people how much I love this thing.

I really though this was sort of a stupid build. I decided I wanted it after flying around in the gym with both my Hubsan and my 250. The Hubsan is such a compromise. Don't get me wrong...it is great for flying around in my house, but it just feels like there is never enough anywhere else. Flying this 150 so closely matches my 250 experience that it is scary. I feel like I could fly it pretty much anywhere. I really want to get a scrap of drywall and crash it into it to see what sort of damage it does before I fly it in the house. I may wait until the 3030 props come in to see if that tames it a bit also.

DB

Multistar and A Spec batteries are very light weight look into those for 3s

 

[Darkback2]

I'm either going to have to reprint these much thinner, or make them out of lighter material because they are way too heavy. I tried them on 2s and couldn't even take off, and then on 3s flight time was about 2 minutes.

The added mass makes a difference. That said, can't fly around gouging the walls. :-( Might have to use this as strictly an outdoor flyer after all. :-(

I also might have to add lights or something so that I can find this thing if i crash in tall grass.

DB

 

[airhawk]

3d printed prop guards interesting

 

[Darkback2]

So I have pretty much given up on the prop guards. I originally found this conclusion depressing because it really made the decision to build the 150 seem like a dumb one given that it won't be replacing my Hubsan for indoor flying and I already have a 250 that I am really happy flying outdoors.

That is until Thursday.

Don't get me wrong, I am thoroughly in love with this little thing, and to be honest I've sort of felt bad for my ZMR-250 because it hasn't seen much air time since I got the 150 up and flying.

The thing is, the 150 is so forgiving.

I took a friend to the playground on Thursday. I have an extra headset and I took him for a ride. I was doing stupid stuff, like flying to the tube slides, cutting power, sliding down the slide, and the. Taking off again just before crashing as I shot out the other end...(well...it worked about half the time...

I fly almost exclusively in horizon mode, but I was able to flip into rate mode for extended periods of time doing multiple barrel roles in close proximity to the ground. here again I crashed a lot, but I would just walk over, flip the little guy over with my foot, and most of the time I could just take off again without so much as anything else.

I drove back home and flew a pack in my usual home circuit around my yard. My lap times with the 150 were significantly higher than with my 250. I wasn't slowing down before cutting through the small gaps in the course, or through the sharp turns.

So I decided to fly a few laps with my 250. I crashed a lot more than usual, and I ended up going through a few props, but the feeling held over. I found myself pushing my 250 almost as hard as I pushed the 150. Enough so that I think I finally understand why I might want to switch it up to 4s.(the 250 that is.). the power to weight ratio isn't as good as the 150 making it harder to get out of trouble.

So... now the 150 has justified its existence by actively making me a better pilot. Oh man is that thing fun!

DB

 

[Darkback2]

Bad Day for my 150 :-(

So today things went sideways in a hurry...almost saved it but in the end couldn't.

So

Went out to fly my 150 and the video was doing a weird thing. It would start out fine right after you plug in a battery, and about 5 seconds later the video signal would get really bad and then slowly fade to static over the next 10 seconds or so...

So I realized that I made a mistake a few weeks ago, and my video TX was finally giving up the ghost.
(I decided to try running my 150 on 4s not realizing that the video TX was getting power directly from the battery without a regulator and was only supposed to run on 2 -3s... :-(

I happened to have a tiny vtx that I could swap the one on there for so I sat down to do that, but when I was taking the top plate off the video wire pulled loose...

Then horror of horrors, one of the two diversity antennas on my graupner 18 got caught on a piece of Velcro tape and pulled loose also! :-(

I figured out how to solder the video wire back to the tiny little camera, but the receiver wire had pulled out of its little plug. I tried to fix that but the plug was actually broken...Then I got creative which was a bad idea. I decided to try soldering the antenna directly to the receiver...

Well...that didn't work. So...My little guy will be benched for a bit.

Lesson learned.

DB

 

[Darkback2]

Something Is Wrong

So I'm not really sure what is going on. I've been flying more aggressively now that I have things configured closer to properly...Today I had a pretty good crash and somehow snapped the channel selection button off of my vtx. I thought that was strange too...So I swapped it out for a spare that I had laying around, and now I know why I left that one laying around. The video cuts in and out. Just when you think it is ok to fly it cuts out again. So I ordered a new VTX for it. While I'm at it I'm going to tear it apart and go over everything. Mostly just checking solder joints to make sure everything is as secure as it should be.

I should be back up in the air by Wednesday of next week at the latest. In the mean time I'll be flying the Martian.

DB