First plane a total disaster

[Marki Mark]

I decided to make an FT Explorer. It took me over a year because I got demotivated several times due to long shipping times and lack of skill with foamboard. I finally finished the plane and it's a total disaster. I cannot get the thing to fly more than a couple feet and after so many repairs the thing is too heavy with tape I think. I am not sure if it's too heavy, I thought my electronics would be overkill.

I just got me a new load of new, better, supplies to go for a from-scratch try 2. Sharper knives, better glue gun, etc.

I would rather try an easier, less maintenance, build. Do you have any suggestions for a never successfully flown noobie? I was considering either the FT Simple Cub, or some wing. The thing is that I have a pretty heavy 2450 4s battery and a 2200kv 1100kv 2826 motor. So too light of a plane would probably not be a good idea, but a smaller plane is easier and faster to build.

Next to that I had been having trouble getting the designs on the foamboard. I used spray glue and stuck normal paper with the design on the foamboard. This means the plane is already a bit heavier from the start. Is there a better way to go about getting the designs on the paper?

 

[The Hangar]

First off, 2200 kv is an F-pack sized motor, and typically you'll run an F pack on 2s or 3s. You'll be doing over 100 on 4s most likely. I know people have had success with 2212 2200kv motors on a simple cub before, so that should work, but I would get a 1000 mah - 1800 mah 3s for it. I would also recommend a simple scout over a simple cub. They are easier for beginners to learn on IMO.

 

[cranialrectosis]

Fear not, this is common.

Building your own flying toys is hard. If it weren't, this wouldn't be nearly so cool.

EVERYONE crashes. These toys have a lifespan. Beginner toy lifespans tend to be short. However, when I started, building a balsa glider took 50 hours for a plane that lasted 1 minute. With foam, the learning curve is far less expensive.

You will crash. You will need a bag to put the bits of your plane into when you pick them up. It's like getting rejected when you ask a girl out. You react the same way. Your buddies help you pick up the bits, you maybe alter your approach (overkill is not always good, balance is) and you try again. This is what our forums are for.

I recommend the FT Tiny Trainer for several reasons.
1. It comes with two wings, a polyhedral glider type wing for 3 channel and a sport wing for 4 channel.
2. It is widely supported here on the forums with many available variants.
3. It is a belly lander, the simplest thing to throw and land. Gear is another whole learning curve.
4. It is simple to build and forgiving of minor build errors.
5. Start with a speed build kit. It's cheap and will show you all the different folds and cuts FT designs use. Once you learn the FT methods, building your own kit becomes much easier.

The Cub is not a bad plane for beginners but it is less forgiving (particularly CG) and has gear which means you have to learn to rotate. I think the Cub is better if you have an on site mentor who can buddy box with you. YMMV.

Your 2450 lipo is pretty heavy for a beginner build. More weight tends to mean more splatter when you crash. Light planes don't crash as hard or break as hard. I started with an 800mAh 2S running an 1806 with a 5" prop on my TT. I simply went 3S when I wanted more performance.

I recommend go very light with a slow flyer with tons of support. TT or the Cub or a Scout or a Storch. Of all of these the TT is probably the cheapest and simplest, lightest and best supported.

Finally, start a build thread. Document your process and your build with photos and film the maiden and any glide tests. This way, when you crash, you have documentation and we can help to modify your approach and make corrections.

And of course, when you get airborne, we can all join in the party with you.

The biggest thing you seem to need is a wingman. You are in the right place.

 

[Mr_Stripes]

I second the scout or tiny trainer.
Good luck!

Mr_Stripes

 

[sujanpasa]

First of all just buy a 2s 800mah or 1000mah battery for your 2200kv motor. I will say mini simple scout or tiny trainer for your next project. In my case I learn to fly with mini scout so I definitely recommend it. Wish you a luck for your next project.

 

[Marki Mark]

To start off, I actually have an 1100kv motor. Is 4s a better idea anyway?

@cranialrectosis I like the girlfriend analogy! Luckily I am still motivated. I was not expecting anything else than scattered debree this time.

Unfortunately I know nobody who shares this hobby, except for one person. But he has done only drone stuff. Not much of a help when building an airplane. Happy to see this forum has an active and nice community.

I am also on a pretty tight budget. Coming from the RC cars I thought a bigger battery is always better. (Yes, I am frowning as well) So I am still considering rather building something to fit my electronics than to start all over. Or do I only need to switch the battery? Also unfortunately the FT TT is out of stock. I am not sure how often it is restocked but otherwise I'll have to go with one of the alternatives. How about an FT Spear?

 

[The Hangar]

To start off, I actually have an 1100kv motor. Is 4s a better idea anyway?

@cranialrectosis I like the girlfriend analogy! Luckily I am still motivated. I was not expecting anything else than scattered debree this time.

Unfortunately I know nobody who shares this hobby, except for one person. But he has done only drone stuff. Not much of a help when building an airplane. Happy to see this forum has an active and nice community.

I am also on a pretty tight budget. Coming from the RC cars I thought a bigger battery is always better. (Yes, I am frowning as well) So I am still considering rather building something to fit my electronics than to start all over. Or do I only need to switch the battery? Also unfortunately the FT TT is out of stock. I am not sure how often it is restocked but otherwise I'll have to go with one of the alternatives. How about an FT Spear?

Just curious, are these rc car motors you’re using or ones designated for airplanes? If you want to do a flying wing, the arrow would be the best, but flying wings aren’t the easiest to fly. I would just do a scratch built TT with the plans. I would honestly just do a scratch build and use the money you would have used on a speed build kit for a new battery. Valuehobbies has good batteries and they are very cheap.

 

[Marki Mark]

Just curious, are these rc car motors you’re using or ones designated for airplanes? If you want to do a flying wing, the arrow would be the best, but flying wings aren’t the easiest to fly. I would just do a scratch built TT with the plans. I would honestly just do a scratch build and use the money you would have used on a speed build kit for a new battery. Valuehobbies has good batteries and they are very cheap.

I'm using an airplane motor

 

[mdcerdan]

Train yourself a few days in a simulator before. You crash and reset, with no foam bits to pick up. I use PicaSim both in the PC and android device.

 

[Marki Mark]

I might not have been clear in my post. The problem is not so much my flying skills. It's my plane nose diving, stalling, losing its wing etc in the first couple feet of takeoff

 

[Mr_Stripes]

4s a better idea anyway

Heck no. I too came from driving trucks and there bigger batteries are good. But in a plane if you put a giant battery in there it will be like that truck that always ends up nose in the ground when you try to jump it. Except an a truck you might break an A arm but on a plan you might total it. And did you start out diving your trucks on 4 or 6s or 2-3s? Same goes for planes. More prower is more fun when you, ve learne how to control it (although it is fun to go low and slow). Have fun. Go fly!

Mr_Stripes

 

[Mr_Stripes]

I might not have been clear in my post. The problem is not so much my flying skills. It's my plane nose diving, stalling, losing its wing etc in the first couple feet of takeoff

That sounds like a CG (center of gravity) issue. Try a smaller battery. What are you running? As for the wing just try hand launching it although that was also probably cg. I built a baby blender and it flew awful and Im pretty sure it was cg (It is laying gutted on my shelf...)

Mr_Stripes

 

[BATTLEAXE]

I am seeing everyone is on the right track with this and giving you bits of information. All relative to your dilemma and all possible issues that summed up makes for some solid advice for any beginner. As you said though it isn't a skill issue, just a "how do I get it to fly" issue. The Explorer is a perfect platform to start flying, and like the Tiny Trainer it is modular, wing, tail, and fuse, motor pod and nose if you want to count those. And I do agree with @Mr_Stripes that there is a CG problem, possibly. There are still a couple of open questions though...

1. What is the specified size of this 2200kv motor? Is it a 2212, or a 2205, (huge difference)?
2. Is all the airframe built and put together right? As you said it took a year of off and on attention, is there anything you missed?

The cool part about the Explorer or TT is being modular is you can fix/replace whats needed, not the whole airframe.

3. That being said have you been fixing the original build over many attempts adding weight when you could have just rebuilt that piece, like the nose or the fuse in a dive-in crash like you experienced?

4. Do you have any pics or video of this beast so we can see whats going on, help you diagnose the issue?
5. Do you eat the red smarties last?

One thing i do know on launch it can be tricky, you have to toss it up and hard at about 30-45 degrees. Reason being that because there is no prop wash running over the wing or control surfaces it takes some airspeed for that to take effect. A weak or level launch won't build up enough lift in the wing so the nose will drop right after it leaves your hand. It will take a second or two for the prop to build up the speed the wing needs so you need to be prepared and ready to commit to the launch. And usually this needs to happen at about 75% throttle to start, you need the thrust for the first 50-100" of airtime, get your first turn in to gain some altitude then pull the throttle back to say 60% and cruise around all day long.

This is a vid of a Bronco/Explorer I built. I just had the Explorer given to me and did some beginner self training with it but it didn't last long, caved it like 4 times. I am always a sucker for a twin boom design but didn't have a twin set up at the time, so i morphed the two. Point being watch the launch, you will see how I launched it and it drop the nose till I recover it on the sticks... oh and stick around till the end, you will like it

It would be great if you subscribed as well. Thanks

As you can tell we all want to help but we need help from you, to help you, if that makes sense.

 

[Marki Mark]

I had made a mistake in the initial post. It's an 1100kv motor: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/ntm-pro...-252w-short-shaft-version.html?___store=en_us

We got it to fly for a few meters yesterday but the fuselage, and everything else for that matter, was bent and expectedly the plane nose dived from that. I let it crash on purpose because I made so many mistakes that I would be best off just starting over from scratch.
But I have to say that the few meters that it did fly, it was apperent that the worst mistake I made in the first few tries off all was not to have the CG correct. It was some progress as the only reason it crashed the last time was because the fuselage steered it downwards.

What I've learned:
- A sharper knife means a better build
- Dont rush the parts where Josh tells me not to rush them
- A perfect plane with an off CG turns your hard work into bits and pieces
- Aeroplanes are not cars. Every gram counts and should be avoided

I will be building a new plane today with my friend and hopefully be flying it today or tomorrow. My friend convinced me that we HAVE TO BE making a wing. I told him many times that that's not a beginners plane but he went on to tell me that crashing with it will be less damaging. He has a big inventory of batteries esc's and motors so we'll just try to make the FT Versa Wing.

To be honest, I expect to crash it until it breaks like I did with the FT Explorer. But this time we'll be recording it with the DJI Mavic. That means I will be able to show you where I'm messing up. On top of that, since you guys will be watching I will have extra pressure to actually put the effort into not making stupid simple mistakes.

To be continued...

 

[Mr_Stripes]

Idk about a wing...I have the pieces for a mini arrow up on my shelf unassembled right now.

 

[The Hangar]

I had made a mistake in the initial post. It's an 1100kv motor: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/ntm-pro...-252w-short-shaft-version.html?___store=en_us

We got it to fly for a few meters yesterday but the fuselage, and everything else for that matter, was bent and expectedly the plane nose dived from that. I let it crash on purpose because I made so many mistakes that I would be best off just starting over from scratch.
But I have to say that the few meters that it did fly, it was apperent that the worst mistake I made in the first few tries off all was not to have the CG correct. It was some progress as the only reason it crashed the last time was because the fuselage steered it downwards.

What I've learned:
- A sharper knife means a better build
- Dont rush the parts where Josh tells me not to rush them
- A perfect plane with an off CG turns your hard work into bits and pieces
- Aeroplanes are not cars. Every gram counts and should be avoided

I will be building a new plane today with my friend and hopefully be flying it today or tomorrow. My friend convinced me that we HAVE TO BE making a wing. I told him many times that that's not a beginners plane but he went on to tell me that crashing with it will be less damaging. He has a big inventory of batteries esc's and motors so we'll just try to make the FT Versa Wing.

To be honest, I expect to crash it until it breaks like I did with the FT Explorer. But this time we'll be recording it with the DJI Mavic. That means I will be able to show you where I'm messing up. On top of that, since you guys will be watching I will have extra pressure to actually put the effort into not making stupid simple mistakes.

To be continued...

Alright, awesome! My one piece of advice - use FT’s recommended throws (I might even go less) and 30% expo. The versa can be twitchy without them.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

You wanna see an awesome little wing that is a tough little bird, and is the same size as the Arrow. It was designed by @whackflyer called the Dominator. Its a 3 layer KFm wing, super easy to build and easy to fly with its wide speed envelope, check it out...

I have built a few of these in different sizes and configurations, these ones have more of a combat style fuse for fitment and ease of getting to the electronics...

The top one is more docile, has a smaller 6" prop and a little more control surface, the latter has a slimmer airframe for aerodynamics and a larger 8" higher pitched prop for power and speed.

The wings can be sensitive to the CG but once you dial them in they are a lot of fun. Plans are attached to the post.

Or you could go with the FT-22 which also has a wide speed envelope, is easy to fly, and is not so sensitive to the CG. I have made a handful of these as well. Check out my channel to see what I have played around with. There are over 90 vids that document my journey through this hobby, here is a link...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUFM8PpAbZs1F8PEJhgS2EA?view_as=subscriber
Take a look, enjoy all the crashing, and subscibe, it would be much appreciated to help the channel grow. Thanks

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Idk about a wing...I have the pieces for a mini arrow up on my shelf unassembled right now.

Yea neither the Arrow or the Spear even came close to working for me, you should look at the previous post though, wings aren't hard, they just look it

 

[Bricks]

If you build the Versa wing first thing I would do is the cut out for the motor go deeper into the wing as the Versa will need a ton of nose weight even running a 2200 4S battery. With a 3S 2200 battery I needed over 2 ounces of nose weight, I have built my fair share of the Versa Blunt nose once set up and balanced it is a great flyer, do not forget to put some reflex into the elevons.

 

[Yusernaym]

My first plane was an Arrow, and I absolutely loved it. If you build it light, it'll fly as slow as you want, stalls are basically impossible, and it's a stable enough platform to handle as many crazy manuevers as you can throw at it. I can't say how well the versa flies, but I honestly think wings are a good option for early planes, and if my arrow was any indication, they do hold up to crashes well.