Flitefest 2017 Build-off?

[jsknockoff]

Would any of you balsa guys be interested in a friendly build off for Flitefest 2017? Kind of a winter building project with a central theme to be showcased at Flightfest. I was thinking with the amount of giant scale builds I see on the forum here that we could do an electric giant scale build. I realize the budget for something like that is very high so if there wasn't enough interest then maybe a stick and tissue build where everyone builds the same kit. I'm open to other ideas, just thought a group build might be fun.

Cody

 

[Joker 53150]

As much as I like the idea, there may not be a lot of interest in the Flite Test community since most of 'em here are using that new-fangled "foam" stuff instead of good 'ol balsa. You're right about the big budget on giant scale planes, and that would keep most people from joining in on any contest. Electric giant scale motor and batteries are much more costly than the 3S 2200mAh that so many love to use. Heck, the engine I'm buying for my current L-19 giant-scale build is a used engine and still costs more than most people will ever invest in a single DTFB plane including electronics!

One day I'd love to see Flite Test come out with their own balsa kit, and rumors of that happening have swirled around for a while. If they DID release a balsa kit, a build contest would be a fantastic way to showcase it and get people interested. Model Airplane News did a "Build to Win" contest a year or so ago (LINK), where all builders started with the same basic plane design (a low-wing version of a Stick), and they used this as the base to create their own design. (I ended up with an Honorable Mention for my effort turning it into a Navion).

Personally, I really like this type of contest. Everybody starts with the same set of plans, and then modifies it as needed to complete their vision. My vision was a Navion, but others made their planes into WWI era fighters, biplanes, etc. Anything goes, as long as you could still sort-of see the original design. Rules could be changed to let the builder scale plans up or down as they see fit. Starting with a generic "Stick" design gives you tons of flexibility in what the builder can do with it.

Just my thoughts on the subject. Time in the schedule permitting, I'd be on-board with a contest.

 

[TexMechsRobot]

I like the idea of everyone building the same kit or plans. It'd be fun to learn from others when I see how they solved a particular challenge.

 

[jsknockoff]

The giant scale idea was a jumping off point, and I realize that Flitefest is more of the foam throw away kind of event. But, I was hoping get maybe even a small group of people with some balsa planes that were kit built could show people the real potential of the hobby. The balsa kit side is fading away and I think the younger generation and even people my own age (32) could benefit from seeing what you can really do when you put some time and effort into the hobby.

I realize not everyone has several hundred dollars laying around to out into an all out balsa build but I hope we can drum up enough interest to get a handful of planes together at least.

 

[Joker 53150]

In my opinion, the best chance for getting participation is using an "average" size plane that may use 9 grams, a Park 450 sized motor, and a 3S 2200 battery (give or take). There are plenty of planes on Outerzone that would fit into a category like this. Having everybody build a specific design may not interest some people, while requiring the builder use their imagination may intimidate others. You'll never please everybody, unfortunately.

A plane this size wouldn't take long to build, so I'd probably be all in on the contest either way. Then again, if you want to do a giant scale contest and open it up to gassers as well as electrics, I'm in on that as well (assuming I can enter the L-19)!

 

[jsknockoff]

I'd would absolutely love the idea of doing a giant scale gas build but I'm pretty sure the event is electric only.

I'd be on board with something in the park450 size. That would allow someone who has a FT C pack to use their existing electronics if they wanted to participate.

 

[Joker 53150]

Yeah, I wouldn't expect to be allowed to fly the L-19 at Flite Fest, and quite honestly I'd be afraid to fly it there because the sky is way too chaotic and swarming with foamies, and I'd hate to lose a big investment due to hitting $2.00 worth of foam!

So here's my idea for a contest (but it's your party so do with it as you wish) - take a plan like one of these:

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=5860

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=4952

These are simple-ish designs, with straight wings, balsa sheet tail surfaces, etc. People could take the designs and modify the heck out of them and come up with all kinds of new designs. Shift the wing down to the bottom of the fuselage, change the tail, and go with a T-28 design. Or raise the wing by enlarging the fuselage and make it a high-wing trainer. Change the tail and take it from German to British flavor. They could probably also be modified to use a standard Flite Test power pod. Your call, but you can also allow people to go bigger or smaller with the design, from a micro-stick to a giant-stick.

Just some thoughts...!

 

[jsknockoff]

I wonder if we would get more interest out of building off of a plan or from a kit? I like the idea of a one design contest but I guess another way to go would be just to use a common motor size and make that the guideline. My goal with the idea is just to get as many people to participate as possible and also to give everyone a specific project for the winter months. I really want the project to be "run" by everyone involved. This is my favorite section of the forum and I think people who have maybe not ever tried balsa may give it a shot if they see what's going on.

 

[jsknockoff]

Also I agree with the concern for losing a plane due to a mid air with a stray foamie. That in itself kinda forces something like this into a simple or at least inexpensive design. Stik idea would be perfect in that case.


What about an old free flight style rc conversion?

 

[Joker 53150]

Just another thought to muddy the water, but how about a "build-along" to help people who've never built balsa? If there are multiple people building the same plan it gives everybody plenty of help getting answers. Either way, I'm still probably in for the fun.

 

[jsknockoff]

I like the idea of a build along. If the idea is to get new builders to try it for the first time then do you think an entry level sport or scale plane would be the best way to go?

The Herr Piper Cherokee kit might fit, its cheap, easy to fly, and would operate in small cheap electronics.

 

[Joker 53150]

I've never built a Herr kit, but have heard they are decent, so the Cherokee could be a good choice. I'm not sure how easy it is to fly, so no idea how "beginner-friendly" it would be. I proposed doing a group-build a few years ago and my plan was to use two different planes from Mountain Models, the Switchback and the Dandy. At first glance they don't look like it, but they're about 75% the same exact plane. The Dandy is more of a beginner design with a high wing and full sheet tail surfaces, while the Switchback is a low wing with built-up tail surfaces. There are three different wings you can build for them (although I'm not sure if the really long wing works on the Switchback for sure). They have a symmetrical wing with ailerons and no dihedral for more aerobatic performance, a flat-bottom wing with dihedral and ailerons for easier flight, and then the long wing without ailerons for 3-channel flight. I've built both fuselages and 2 of the 3 wings, so I know they're beginner-friendly for construction and they are both great flying planes with generic 9 gram servos, a 1000mAh 3 cell, and an inexpensive motor.

Somewhere here in the balsa forum I did a fast build thread for the Dandy I built for my dad - it's worth a quick look.

 

[rockyboy]

I'm interested in this, especially if we keep it in a 3 cell electric power zone. Really like those Mountain Models kit suggestions too - good quality kits, not too expensive for the overall risk of bringing it to FF, some choices for flight performance while staying in the same zone, and supporting a small business along the way.

I have a couple other balsa kits on the workbench, but for various reasons I wouldn't consider most of them a candidate to bring to FF - these Mountain Models kits on the other hand would be a good fit.

 

[Joker 53150]

My MM kits have joined me at FTFF for all 3 years so far. Kits that size and price are good for the event as they're not so expensive or large that you're afraid to fly them, plus they fly very nicely so. For FTFF 17 I'm planning to bring either my Pietenpol or Astro-Hog, both of which are too big and expensive to risk flying during the busy times, but would be fine for Dawn Patrol when skies are quiet.

 

[MikeJM]

Coming late to the party!

But a giant scale build off is definitely cost prohibitive.

Just my P-38 wheels at $270 cost more than most foamies.

 

[Joker 53150]

Ha! Yeah, it seems like some of the 1/4 scale or larger parts must be gold-plated based on the prices. Realistically, I think some of the manufacturers have decided that if you're building BIG, you should expect to pay BIG.

Back to a thought on a mass-build, IF we do this and come up with a primary candidate to build, somebody should contact the seller and see if we can get a bulk order discount. I'd guess we can save a few bucks per person by doing that, assuming there are enough people willing to join in the fun.

 

[jsknockoff]

Certainly worth a shot getting the discount group price. It would be nice if we could get at least 8-10 people.

 

[rockyboy]

Perhaps instead of asking for a price discount on the model, we could ask for a 'sponsorship' perk like a special decal, or a coupon on covering ordered at the same time as the kit. Thinking of something to help out the small business in addition to the modelers.

So jsknockoff, you're the ringleader here - are we a go for any Mountain Models Switchback or Dandy model variant for the build?

 

[Joker 53150]

Regardless of the plane chosen, you'd obviously need to give people time to assemble the parts and tools needed to join in. Christmas is around the corner and some may get kits as gifts.

Some support from Flite Test would be nice to promote the build.

Also, breaking the build into small steps could allow everybody ample time to keep up, such as Week 1 is the fuselage and tail, week 2 is the wing. Or something like that to try and keep everybody on the same page.

 

[rockyboy]

Also, to put in an idea for the contest rules, how about 'Best In Show' voted on by FF attendees putting a buck the appropriate jar for each model on display - funds donated to a charity selected by the winner or ringleader?

The charity build aspect could help with getting wider promotion of the contest too.