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FTFC´18 WWII Lippisch P13a designed by Dr. Looping Looie

#1
I´m planing to build one of the most crazy plane designs ever: the Lippish P13a
2a30eb5d35f12246b092a0195aa1014a.jpg

This crazy small plane was a Nazi concept at the end of WWII, but it never flew. If it were build, it would be the first supersonic airplane ever. I want to build it with a C-pack motor in the front or with a EDF powerpod, when Flite Test releases one. It should be started with a "startcar" just like the real one, steared like a delta and have bomb drops to add a little fun.

Building will start next weak.
 

FoamyDM

Building Fool-Flying Noob
#3
This reminds me of STARCOM Shadow Parasite I had as a kid.

STARCOM Shadow Parasite.jpg

There's another way to have inspiration.

Either way I don't want any of your Lippisch. :p
 

JimCR120

Got Lobstah?
Site Moderator
#4
Looking forward to seeing the build.

I see you're new to the forum. How long have you been flying? What else do you fly?

Welcome to the forum Dr. Louie
—Jim
 
#5
Hi Jim

Im flying three and a half years now, first with the easy trainer 800, now Ive got a Messerschmitt BF 109, the E-flite Timber and the FT Sea Duck, which is the best of all. I also build a absolutely scale 1/4 Fokker triplane and a Dornier Style Seaplane.
Then I finished the seaplane, I will start building this one, so we have a week to think and research.
So, what would you like to see on this?

It should use powerpach C or the new upcoming EDF powerpod. Is there any insider who knows size and shape of this thing?
I also build test gliders, which have impressive stability

Greetings, Tristan
 
#7
20171012_160331.jpg
20171012_160840.jpg 20171012_160908.jpg 20171012_160934.jpg 20171012_160958.jpg 20171012_161044.jpg

These are plane models made from paper. I found the plans on the Internet, painted them and build plane models. On the first picture, you can see:
Messerschmitt BF-109 E7 Trop with rotating prop and retracting tail wheel; paper, doesnt glide
Messerschmitt Me-262 paper, does not glide
Messerschmitt Me-163 paper, does not glide
Micro Cub FT foam board foam core, does glide
FT Sarrow FT wr foam board, does glide, for scale
Micro Sparrow paper, made it in scool, does glide really well
3s 2200 LiPo Litium, does not glide,for scale
Micro P13a paper, does glide, for researching, crazy stable and self-leveling
Lippisch P13a paper, does glide really well, crazy stable and self-leveling

Most things that dont glide have no weight in the nose, they look too good to be thrown against a wall.

How the Lippisch P13a glides:

You can throw it like a dart, then it will fly fast , but has not that crazy self-leveling. If you bend the elevons a little up, grab it by its tail and place it in the air, it will do a nice landing with a litlle high alpha. If you bend the elevons too high up, it will stall and fall down, because it has no power. If you throw it upside down, it will do a half roll and fly rightside up.

What does this mean?

It could be a fast delta jet, that also does good rolls, but if you pull the elevator and lower the throttle, it could land very gentle and stable.
 

Fluburtur

Cardboard Boy
#8
Do you know when you will release the plans for the glider version? If it's so good at self leveling it might make a good fpv plane (I turn everything fpv these days)
 
#10
Do you know when you will release the plans for the glider version? If it's so good at self leveling it might make a good fpv plane (I turn everything fpv these days)
Glider Version doesnt make sense, It was just to check the aerodynamics of the big fin, which looks really heavy, and I wanted to look if it flips upside down or not, but the fin kept it stable. It does not glide like a soarer, more like a jet while landing. Sorry, but its short Wings are defenitly not good for long glides.
I will post a few posts where I talk over tecnical details, like aerodynamics

Tristan Emde
 
#11
How to launch

Lets talk about different launching tecniques and their advantages and disadvantages.

1. handlaunch

Standard. This plane has no landing gear, and If you have just the plane, wou will have to handlauch. I dont know its caracteristics, but I think the Prop version has too much torque, which makes the prop more difficult than the EDF.

2. startcar

I dont know if "startcar" is right but I think you know what I mean.
There is a trailer for the Lippisch P13a, which was made to carry it from one place to the other
lippisch-p13-revell.jpg
We could use this as a fun scale detail, although it was just a trailer. Once the plane is fast enouth, lift will lift it off the trailer and it will fly. Could handle torque well, looks amazing, but prop could hit the ground.And I really like that Kettenkrad. Trailer could be made out of wood.

3. piggyback

35f46d099aa94ce14cd529ca7f7d8dbf--luftwaffe-wwii.jpg
Flite Test just released its piggybacklaunch systen, which works for many different designs. A simple hole in the landing skid and a german WWII bomber could create a very scale launch.
 
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JimCR120

Got Lobstah?
Site Moderator
#12
That little fella looks like the tail end of... something the went through the boneyard guillotine and now has a guy straddling the vertical stabilizer of what's left.

It's pretty incredible the variety of designs that came out in that era.
 
#15
lippisch_p-13a_engine_sketch.jpg

Interesting...

It has a rocket in the back to bring it to 1/2mach to start the ramjet. Ramjets have no moving parts and work only over 500 kilometers per hour. This one was powerd by coal and testet on Dornier bombers. Today, Ramjets are used for cruise missiles and fly with mach 10.
 
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#16
Aerodynamics

black means plane
blue means airflow
red means lift
Hope you can see something on the pictures

straight flight

wings produce uplift, fin produces lift to both sides
Unbenannt 1.jpg
because of the symmetrical profile of the wings, the plane always has to fly with just a very low high alpha.
when it turns to one side, the fin will produce more lift to the upper site and pull it back in level.

while flying knifeedge, the fin is the only part that produces lift.
now it will pull the plane back in the normal position.
Unbenannt 3.jpg

landing

while landing, it loses high very quick, so the airflow goes up 45degrees from the point of view of the plane.
now, the fin stables it like a nomal vertical stabelizer.
Unbenannt 2.jpg


Grifflyer yes, it will be top heavy, even the paper models were top heavy and I will have to put the battery in the fin, but I hope, the aerodynamics will work against it.

Also, a rudder could help with fast rolls because it works like a third aileron.

And do you know how to install a EDF in this? It needs a thrust tube, but this thing has a rectangle nozzle. And should I place the EDF in the front air intake or in the middle of the plane?
 

FoamyDM

Building Fool-Flying Noob
#17
I just got in a 30mm EDF for a small F-117... however, This one Looks like a GREAT candidate for a mini version.

Motor Placement - the tough part here is that the battery needs to be around the original engine location for balance, near the front, where there isn't room for it except in the thrust tube. Which means the motor might have to move up to offset the rear-ward battery locations. *not an expert here* I think I would consider two 2S batteries hooked in Series to fit in the wings in front of the spar yet creating a 4s. In the mini I'd consider 1S's in the wings or small mAh 2S's in Parallel.

Thrust tube - I've seen curvy side walls that follow the wing foil elevation wise.

It Isn't SUPER efficient, but it gets the job done. You could to a split tube that gets squished at the back (like toothpaste tubes). It would be a bit more aerodynamic. but somewhat harder to pull off for the masses. My vote is the curvy side wall.

Hope it helps. I'm building mine to look like the STARCOM toy! :)